Lower drinking age?
- Thread starter HereWeGoAgain
- Start date
KTMom91
Well-Known Member
If you are considered an adult at 18, can join the military, vote, sign contracts, and are legally responsible for yourself and your actions...it is illogical and hypocritical to have a drinking age of 21.
In regards to the fact that many young people are still in high school at 18, why not change the age of legal adulthood to 19? All rights and responsibilities can be awarded at that time...voting, military, contracts...and drinking.
In regards to the fact that many young people are still in high school at 18, why not change the age of legal adulthood to 19? All rights and responsibilities can be awarded at that time...voting, military, contracts...and drinking.
trinityroyal
Well-Known Member
Here in Ontario the drinking age IS 19. Bars, restaurants, the LCBO (govt-run liquor stores) and The Beer Store (govt run beer stores) are very aggressive about checking ID. In fact, a lot of restaurant/bars have regulations about turfing out anyone under 19 years old at 9:00 or 10:00 pm, when the bar-and-party atmosphere starts to gear up.
Growing up, I was always allowed to have a small drink of wine at special occasions, and at parties etc. under supervision, so it never had the appeal of an illicit activity for me.
I grew up during the time when they got much stricter about checking ID. When I was 14 I could waltz into any LCBO store and buy alcohol, no questions asked. I looked a lot older than 14, so no one ever asked me. By the time I was 19 and had proper ID, I got asked EVERYwhere.
Even at 14, though, I wouldn't buy alcohol for anyone else. I had my parents permission (well, license really. They weren't exactly paying attention), but others didn't, and somehow it seemed way worse to provide it for someone else than to get it for myself.
We don't seem to have a huge problem with underage drinking around here (lots of young people, 3 universities and several community colleges in my city, 5 or 6 high schools in my neighbourhood). The kids who live next door have a party every weekend when their parents go away. There is no raucous behaviour, not even blaring music. They hang out, talk and have fun. I suspect there is some drinking going on, but no rotten behaviour. We keep an ear out in case of trouble, but there isn't any.
I'm not sure where I stand on this, really. It strikes me that it really is about maturity, personal responsibility, parental guidance and expectations. Whether a person hits that point at 16, 18, 21 or 25 depends on the individual and you can't legislate it.
I just don't know...
hearts and roses
Mind Reader
Trinity, I can't tell you how many of my daughters' friends make trips up to Canada just because they can go to clubs and drink without being harrassed. And the parents all know.
Four or five will go in on a hotel room and head up there on a Friday (takes about 6-8 hours) and come home Sunday. While they are there they actually hit up some other cultural spots - so it can't even be said that all they do up there is drink their hineys off.
trinityroyal
Well-Known Member
In some ways I think having the parental sanction takes a lot of the thrill away from drinking. You're not rebelling if your dad is sitting there having a beer with you.
From what I observed among my peers in high school, those whose parents didn't make a big deal out of drinking seemed to be able to keep a level head about it. I think on the parents' part, they handled things pretty well.
For example:
- For my graduation formal (I think you call it a prom?) Our class rented a local city bus to transport all of us around for the night. There was a cocktail party, a dinner party, a dessert party, the dance itself, and then a breakfast party and a "five alive" party for those who were still awake. Each event was at someone's house, and the parents were all around to supervise and make sure we didn't get out of hand.
Our whole class stuck together, no one got completely pie-eyed, everyone behaved well, and no one drove while drunk. Made total sense to me, then and now.
HereWeGoAgain
Grandpa
OK, well, I am obviously in the minority on this question. I won't argue it anymore, but allow me to wax pedantic for a moment:
"Hypocrisy" is condemning something in others that you do yourself, or pretending to be virtuous when you are not. I think that it would be better to say that having different ages for considering people adults in different situations is "inconsistent", rather than "hypocritical", since the latter is highly pejorative and thinner-skinned people than me might take offense at being labeled hypocrites for making a sincere case.
"Hypocrisy" is condemning something in others that you do yourself, or pretending to be virtuous when you are not. I think that it would be better to say that having different ages for considering people adults in different situations is "inconsistent", rather than "hypocritical", since the latter is highly pejorative and thinner-skinned people than me might take offense at being labeled hypocrites for making a sincere case.
F
flutterbee
Guest
My use of the word hypocrisy was not aimed towards you, rather at the law.
Inconsistencies, hypocrisy, whatever you want to call it - I don't see how the law can claim on one hand that an 18 year old is completely responsible for his/her actions and liable as an adult, but then say that same adult is not responsible enough to drink.
My argument has nothing to do with whether 18 is an appropriate age for drinking. My argument is that in the eyes of the law an 18 year old is considered an adult in every other way, so this shouldn't be any different.
Inconsistencies, hypocrisy, whatever you want to call it - I don't see how the law can claim on one hand that an 18 year old is completely responsible for his/her actions and liable as an adult, but then say that same adult is not responsible enough to drink.
My argument has nothing to do with whether 18 is an appropriate age for drinking. My argument is that in the eyes of the law an 18 year old is considered an adult in every other way, so this shouldn't be any different.
W
Wishing4Sanity
Guest
That is my thinking on it. I have believed that for years!! I know I drank MORE from 18-21 than I have since turning 21. NEVER drove drunk, was not worth it!!
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
I would be interested in going back to the "Olden days" and seeing what the statistics say as far as the rates for under 18 drinking, binge drinking, and all those good things. AND the rates of alcoholism rising from those kids.
I dont remember it being a big deal about kids bring booze to school. Im sure it happened from time to time. It does now. We are kidding ourselves if we think raising the age limit has stopped high school kids from getting booze. I wonder if there were more DUI's back then or now. Would be an interesting study. Of course it would be somewhat flawed because the limit was higher and the arrest rates were lowers and convictions were harder to get. Cops didnt push it as much. They didnt have road blocks and such.
I dont remember it being a big deal about kids bring booze to school. Im sure it happened from time to time. It does now. We are kidding ourselves if we think raising the age limit has stopped high school kids from getting booze. I wonder if there were more DUI's back then or now. Would be an interesting study. Of course it would be somewhat flawed because the limit was higher and the arrest rates were lowers and convictions were harder to get. Cops didnt push it as much. They didnt have road blocks and such.
mrscatinthehat
Seussical
Ironic this topic came up today at work. Three of us were involved and we had two opinions between us.
beth
beth
1 Day At a Time
Member
I think that the forbidden - no matter what it is - is oh, so attractive to adolescents and young adults. I personally believe that taking the mysterious quality away will really cut down on overindulgence.
However, we MUST have quality, realistic education about uses of mind altering substances, whatever they are - legal or illegal. No scare tactics - just the truth. I believe that a certain percentage of drinkers have the genetic makeup to become alcoholics. That potential is there, just waiting for the correct scenerio to come to fruition. I say this having worked in couple of alcohol rehab centers. I do not believe that people choose to become alcoholics. We need to give the facts to young people, along with the warning signs. Then, we need to make treatment available and affordable and take away the stigma.
I don't think we can eliminate alcohol or other mind altering substances from our culture. We call some of them legal, we call some of them illegal. in my humble opinion those are arbitrary designations. I'm for the liberal approach with education, education, education and available treatment for addiction. I'm also for really, really tough DUI laws. I think we need to take away the liscense and the car on the second DUI.
Here in our state we have something called The Brain Injury and Spinal Cord Injury Trust Fund. Other states have them as well. It is a fund of money created by "add on" fees to DUI and BUI (boating and bicycling under the influence) charges. The Board that governs the fund gives grants to individuals who have suffered brain injuries or spinal cord injuries from accidents. I really like this concept because those who overindulge and choose to irresponsibly operate a vehicle are giving money to help those who have been hurt. I think it is a good system - and a different way of dealing with the substance use problem.
However, we MUST have quality, realistic education about uses of mind altering substances, whatever they are - legal or illegal. No scare tactics - just the truth. I believe that a certain percentage of drinkers have the genetic makeup to become alcoholics. That potential is there, just waiting for the correct scenerio to come to fruition. I say this having worked in couple of alcohol rehab centers. I do not believe that people choose to become alcoholics. We need to give the facts to young people, along with the warning signs. Then, we need to make treatment available and affordable and take away the stigma.
I don't think we can eliminate alcohol or other mind altering substances from our culture. We call some of them legal, we call some of them illegal. in my humble opinion those are arbitrary designations. I'm for the liberal approach with education, education, education and available treatment for addiction. I'm also for really, really tough DUI laws. I think we need to take away the liscense and the car on the second DUI.
Here in our state we have something called The Brain Injury and Spinal Cord Injury Trust Fund. Other states have them as well. It is a fund of money created by "add on" fees to DUI and BUI (boating and bicycling under the influence) charges. The Board that governs the fund gives grants to individuals who have suffered brain injuries or spinal cord injuries from accidents. I really like this concept because those who overindulge and choose to irresponsibly operate a vehicle are giving money to help those who have been hurt. I think it is a good system - and a different way of dealing with the substance use problem.
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HereWeGoAgain
Grandpa
Wonder no longer. There have been many such studies, and according to the ones cited in the article as well as others in newspaper reports I've read over the years, the rates of teenage drinking and DUIs did fall when the drinking age was raised. In spite of the increased lure of the forbidden, actual usage decreased. And, actually, the increased enforcement doesn't flaw the studies; rather, the studies show that the increased awareness and enforcement were effective.
Star*
call 911........call 911
HereWeGoAgain -allow me to wax pedantic for a moment
(thinks to self) ????????
OBVIOUSLY I've been waxing the wrong things for years. I didn't know I could wax my pedantic.
I don't believe you should allow children at 18 to drink. They should be enjoying life - and mowing my yard, washing my car, and getting ready for MORE school. Can't be of service to me if they are bombed out of their gourd. Well they could but it would not be fun to watch.
I don't belive they should be allowed to vote either. Like they should throw out the youngest and oldest votes.
I dont' think they should be allowed to join the service - we just get them out of HS and then they got to Afghanistan? Not.
I don't think they should be allowed to drive at 16. or get a permit at 15. Teenage drivers scare the bejeebers out of me. Drunk teenage drivers have hit me 3 times - thanks for that - loved learning how to walk again and waking up with arthritis every day of my life.
I think about some of the furniture in my house and realize I've had it for 20 years.... Old for furniture YOUNG for a child.
WHich bring up my next question - AT WHAT AGE ARE they mature enough to do these things? Instead of making it an across the board rule - why not create a test of maturity? Pass or fail - can only take it once a year.
And of course anyone should be allowed to wax their pedantics at any age. Providing they know what they are.
(thinks to self) ????????
OBVIOUSLY I've been waxing the wrong things for years. I didn't know I could wax my pedantic.
I don't believe you should allow children at 18 to drink. They should be enjoying life - and mowing my yard, washing my car, and getting ready for MORE school. Can't be of service to me if they are bombed out of their gourd. Well they could but it would not be fun to watch.
I don't belive they should be allowed to vote either. Like they should throw out the youngest and oldest votes.
I dont' think they should be allowed to join the service - we just get them out of HS and then they got to Afghanistan? Not.
I don't think they should be allowed to drive at 16. or get a permit at 15. Teenage drivers scare the bejeebers out of me. Drunk teenage drivers have hit me 3 times - thanks for that - loved learning how to walk again and waking up with arthritis every day of my life.
I think about some of the furniture in my house and realize I've had it for 20 years.... Old for furniture YOUNG for a child.
WHich bring up my next question - AT WHAT AGE ARE they mature enough to do these things? Instead of making it an across the board rule - why not create a test of maturity? Pass or fail - can only take it once a year.
And of course anyone should be allowed to wax their pedantics at any age. Providing they know what they are.
svengandhi
Well-Known Member
The drinking age was 18 when I grew up. I remember sneaking into bars a few times before that and not really getting drunk because I really hate the taste of beer and I couldn't afford mixed drinks. When I turned 18, my friends took me out for my first "legal" drink and there was NO allure there.
I did most of my binge drinking in law school (21 - 24) but because I was in NYC, I never drank and drove, didn't even own a car.
My own 18 year old does not drink (Aspies often don't unless they have something else co-morbid, I have come to learn) and my 16 year old daughter has refused to attend drinking parties and has called us to get her when they turn into that. In my town, there are no parent supervised drinking parties (at least no parents I know have ever admitted to hosting one), there is a new social host law on the books, but there are plenty of unsupervised parties here and many weekend nights, you hear the ambulances and then learn about yet another case of alcohol poisoning.
I like the idea of 19 because it gets out of the issue of having some HS kids who can drink and limits it to those in college or the work force, who are less likely to hang out with HS kids. I also find it bizarre that kids who are not old enough for a beer are dying for our country.
I did most of my binge drinking in law school (21 - 24) but because I was in NYC, I never drank and drove, didn't even own a car.
My own 18 year old does not drink (Aspies often don't unless they have something else co-morbid, I have come to learn) and my 16 year old daughter has refused to attend drinking parties and has called us to get her when they turn into that. In my town, there are no parent supervised drinking parties (at least no parents I know have ever admitted to hosting one), there is a new social host law on the books, but there are plenty of unsupervised parties here and many weekend nights, you hear the ambulances and then learn about yet another case of alcohol poisoning.
I like the idea of 19 because it gets out of the issue of having some HS kids who can drink and limits it to those in college or the work force, who are less likely to hang out with HS kids. I also find it bizarre that kids who are not old enough for a beer are dying for our country.
katya02
Solace
I also grew up in Canada and the legal drinking age was 18 when I was in high school. Since then it's been raised to 19 to keep it out of the high schools as much as possible.
Personally I think a drinking age of 21 is ridiculous - if every other adult right and responsibility comes into play at 18. Either raise the adult age to 21 for everything, or lower the drinking age.
We recently spent two years in Canada and then returned to PA. The most noticeable thing for us wasn't youths drinking; it was the ubiquitous presence of pot. We lived in an upscale suburb of a city in southern Ontario and people smoked pot in the high schools (yes!), on the street, on the golf course, in shopping malls ... we were completely weirded out. While pot was around during my high school years in the '70's it was discreetly traded and smoked out in the field behind the high school. It wasn't generally socially acceptable. Now, at least in some parts of southern Ontario, it's more common than drinking coffee.
That was the beginning of the end for difficult child, who was 14 when we moved there and hadn't begun drinking or using; by the time we moved back he was an addict. Thanks, Canada.
(Although I know he's predisposed and it would have happened whenever he came in contact with it, the drugs didn't have to be so d*** ubiquitous and accepted, in my opinion. It didn't have to happen at 14. GRRR.)
Personally I think a drinking age of 21 is ridiculous - if every other adult right and responsibility comes into play at 18. Either raise the adult age to 21 for everything, or lower the drinking age.
We recently spent two years in Canada and then returned to PA. The most noticeable thing for us wasn't youths drinking; it was the ubiquitous presence of pot. We lived in an upscale suburb of a city in southern Ontario and people smoked pot in the high schools (yes!), on the street, on the golf course, in shopping malls ... we were completely weirded out. While pot was around during my high school years in the '70's it was discreetly traded and smoked out in the field behind the high school. It wasn't generally socially acceptable. Now, at least in some parts of southern Ontario, it's more common than drinking coffee.
That was the beginning of the end for difficult child, who was 14 when we moved there and hadn't begun drinking or using; by the time we moved back he was an addict. Thanks, Canada.
(Although I know he's predisposed and it would have happened whenever he came in contact with it, the drugs didn't have to be so d*** ubiquitous and accepted, in my opinion. It didn't have to happen at 14. GRRR.)
MyFriendKita
Active Member
My son's best friend joined the army at 18. He has never had a problem getting alcohol or getting into bars near the bases where he has been stationed. Unfortunately.
Since we DO have evidence that raising the drinking age cut down on DUIs, it seems strange to me to lower the drinking age.
I DO understand that it seems odd to have other adult responsibilities and not this, but that is how it is.
IF people who are under 21 but over 18 really WANTED the drinking age to change, they should VOTE for it. It seems there are enough people in that age group to force the vote AND to make it pass IF they REALLY wanted it.
Since the people who ARE in this age group haven't gotten this figured out, maybe the rest of us should let their decision to not vote stand. I just think that if it were a big enough deal to people in that age group they could and would force a change through a vote. The voting processi s taught in schools, many students work on projects that involve how our govt works, so people in htat age group KNOW how to change things. They just haven't/
I CAN say that in my town drinking is a HUGE issue. The campus groups work really hard to have safe parties and events. BUT we still have a HUGE group of drunks around every weekend. It was so much worse when the drinking age was lowered.
I didn't go to the high school dances because there was so much alcohol and drug use at them. Same for many other high school events. My son says it is still a big problem and he is at thte same high school I went to.
I DO understand that it seems odd to have other adult responsibilities and not this, but that is how it is.
IF people who are under 21 but over 18 really WANTED the drinking age to change, they should VOTE for it. It seems there are enough people in that age group to force the vote AND to make it pass IF they REALLY wanted it.
Since the people who ARE in this age group haven't gotten this figured out, maybe the rest of us should let their decision to not vote stand. I just think that if it were a big enough deal to people in that age group they could and would force a change through a vote. The voting processi s taught in schools, many students work on projects that involve how our govt works, so people in htat age group KNOW how to change things. They just haven't/
I CAN say that in my town drinking is a HUGE issue. The campus groups work really hard to have safe parties and events. BUT we still have a HUGE group of drunks around every weekend. It was so much worse when the drinking age was lowered.
I didn't go to the high school dances because there was so much alcohol and drug use at them. Same for many other high school events. My son says it is still a big problem and he is at thte same high school I went to.
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