Manipulation question

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by klmno, Apr 10, 2009.

  1. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Ok- I've been watching too much tv about kids and families needing help lately. LOL! It made me think of a scenario with my son when he was about 10-12yo and I never figured out a good way to handle it so I thought I'd asked what others have done in this situation.

    If I told difficult child that he needed to do something one evening in order to be able to get a certain priviledge the next day, then he didn't take initiative, so I'd remind him and he wouldn't act compliant. Then, I'd say, ok you do not get this priviledge tomorrow. After I would say that, he would say "Oh- ok I'll go do it right now". If I said "no-it's too late", then he'd say "well- forget it then- there is no reason for me to go do this". Ok- sounds simple enough- but what if it was important that he get that done and I was using the next day's priviledge as a "bribe"? If I went ahead and let him go through with it, it seemed to just encourage more procrastination and issue about getting things done in the future. What would be a better way to meet the objective? Was the priviledge just not enough?
  2. Jena

    Jena New Member

    oh sheesh lol me too i just watched the super nanny and this child who was basically beating her parents, the parents were taught a totally different way to handle her hence kids arent' hitting parents anymore lol, wow scary.....

    anyhow, i'd say it isnt' a bribe it's a positive reinforcement, seriously though i see it at work all the time, they call it a strength based behavioral mod. most kids are on a plan whereas every 3 days they get a small reward if they do x and y each day.

    so to me it's the same thing. they know the deal, they know the consequence of what not doing what their supposed to do will be, so no surprises and than 2 prompts by 3rd if they dont' do it oh well such is life they dont' get the privledge. yet if they say oh i'll do it now, ok go i say! lol.

    i think that's fine in my personal opinion. it's not the way i was raised, lol yet different approachs work with different kids.

    wow 10 or 12 you really are thinking alot?? :)

    by the way i do the same with-difficult child
  3. flutterby

    flutterby Fly away!

    I wouldn't keep reminding him. I would tell him once, then remind him later. If he doesn't do it, when he wants his privilege the next day he doesn't get it.

    I wouldn't pester him all night to do it, is what I'm saying. It has to be done that night and if not, no privilege the next day. Otherwise, you end up in the tug of war and you get the outcome you described: well, no point to doing it now.

    THEN, if he says (the next day when he wants the privilege)...if I do it now, can I have X privilege?, my response would be that if he does it now he can have X privilege tomorrow. The initial deal still stands.
  4. JLady

    JLady A ship lost in the night

    From what I understand consistancy is what is important. I try to be the one training my son not he training me. I think he has the upper hand though. ;)

    I'm trying not to be afraid to parent him.
  5. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I think it matters how often that type of exchange takes place. (Mind you this opinioin is not based on my excellent parenting choices years ago.:redface:)

    If it were an unusual chore or responsibility that seemed to require an incentive then I would see nothing wrong with a reminder. From experience, however, I think that as childrens cognitive abilities increase they see those times as either an opportunity for a power play or a demeaning bribe. Of course it depends on the child/teen. Standard chores never had a reward around here as everyone had daily duties including them.

    My Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) grown easy child/difficult child who used to be meticulous about himself and kept a pretty clean bedroom/bath etc. is now like a 13 year old. It is driving me crazy because I can't find a solution. It's not right for me to clean after a grown man. He has no motivation to do it. Because of his Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) he "thinks" he has had a shower etc. and will go three or four days with-o one unless I bring it up.....which results in him being resentful. Like your example (and against my own I have tried bribing him lately. Not! DDD
  6. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Good thoughts! difficult child called this morning- he only was allowed 5 mins but had enough "points" earned to get other things- he said he had chosen a call home, a 6-piece order of chicken, and a movie. I asked if it was pretty tough in there and he said some of it is- I guess I expected that. He sounded like he's handling it pretty well though- I guess as well as can be expected for being one of the youngest in there.

    He said he had been told where he would be going and for hhow long (12-18 mos with a possible release a little earlier than 12mos). But, this is based on people using their own knowledgable experience- not his own staff workers making a determination- so I'm trying not to get my head set on this as being a fact. For instance, staff told him there was only one choice where he would go due to educational requirements, however, that might be true but it might not be and the person might not be aware of mental health decisions involved.

    Also, the length of stay (LOS) he was told doesn't quite make sense and I'm thinking that whoever told him that didn't have a good understanding about how it's determined- either that or the formula that Department of Juvenile Justice has online is not accurate. When I work the formula, I come up with 9-15 months. If someone else wants to make a run thru it, let me know and I'd be happy to PM the specifics about difficult child's charges and the web link. :D

    I think I see why the calculation is in question though- some people are looking at the number of "charges". In juvenile court, the CHINS & my bro's custody case are given one of those numbers but are not used in calculating LOS because they aren't actual offenses committed by the difficult child. I also found that a kid is better off being sentenced for an "indeterminate" amount of time because that allows an early release. on the other hand, the defense attny said that he was surprised that the judge committed difficult child on so many charges- he said she usually drops the ones the kid has a suspended sentence for and only uses the most current charge. He said he thought her main decisive factor was being worried that difficult child would seriously harm me or someone else and that she had eased up on kids in the past, then they have committed serious bodily harm so this played into her decision, he thinks. I told him that those worries had crossed my mind, too.

    Sooooo, we will just have to suffer thru another 16 more days to get their determiniation of the range- which still doesn't mean a lot because they are giving early outs. At least I will be able to ask when his first review date/staff meeting will be so I'll know that will be his first chance for release- no matter what the LOS is.

    My next big concern is whether or not he should come home and what to do about it if I think he shouldn't. Ok, that's enough of my rambling. LOL!
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2009
  7. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Wow.......that's alot of earned results. Truthfully after reading that he could choose a movie, a call home and chicken...;) I'm not too worried that his placement is too dangerous! I know that sounds flippant but I mean it. The
    Department of Juvenile Justice facilities where we are do not give incentives like that. Places that give a darn about and understand kids give those kinds of rewards for positive behavior modifications.

    That's the best news I've heard lately.

    The 2nd best news is that you seem to be less frantic this week, yourself.
    That's right up there. Living vicariously......things are looking up! DDD
  8. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Thanks! He's still at the processing place so I'm not so sure that their method of behavior mod is typical of the other places. Since parents can't visit the first 30 days, which coincidently gives them the 28 days to classify the kid and determine where they go, my gut feeling is that they use this method to see how cooperative the kid is and how easy it might be to rehabilitate them. Yes, it is GREAT that he has done well there so far. He said he might not call next week- I'm not sure if that's because he doesn't want to look like a Momma's boy or if he's got his eye on something else to choose from. (More food maybe? LOL!) It's ok- I told him if he'd just call every other week I would survive!

    I've heard about 2 Department of Juvenile Justice places here that are horrible- maybe people are just telling me this to make me feel better, but they say those 2 places are where the sexual offenses can happen and violence, etc., but difficult child won't be going there because he's not 16 yet. Somehow I doubt those places offer the same encouragement. (Another reason I want to make sure he doesn't get over 18 mos in- so he won't get moved to one of those places.) But, he will still be with kids who have committed sexual offenses- it could be rape even and maybe even kids who have killed. The most common listed in their statistics is armed robbery.

    Really, I do hope this works. I would never be able to give him this level of secure, enforced behavior mod at home. Plus, difficult child has such issues with feeling rejection and peer pressure that some part of him feels a reassurance in places like detention and pjhosp that he doesn't get in the real world. He does well in places like that. My big worry though is that he identifies too much with kids like that and doesn't feel comfortable outside or ssettings where kids haven't had these issues. I think that has a lot to do with him not doing well at home and a BIG reason I think he might have to be in a group home to make it without going right back in the system. After he'd been in that psychiatric hospital only 2 weeks in Feb, the psychiatrist said he thought difficult child would really do best in a boarding school if I could afford it, once he got out of legal trouble. Well, unfortunately, there is no way I can afford it and he'd probably never be allowed to go now. But I did agree right away. If he'd been put in a military boarding school before he ever got into legal trouble (not that I had money to do it), I think his life could have turned out a lot different.

    Anyway, if he does well for a few months, I'm going to see if they will let me talk to his mental health care providers and discuss titrating down on medications. Nothing would make me (or difficult child) happier- but I'm not bringing this up to him.

    by the way- me- calmer?? It must be all those old Neil Diamond songs I've been listening to!
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2009
  9. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    That is good news that he chose a call to you! Also I think the chicken isn't really a surprise... Well... It wouldn't be for my difficult child 2 anyway.

    Something I have found works (sometimes), not to get something done but to get it done in a timely manner... "You have X chore to do today. If you are done with it by (the time I get home from work at 4:45/noon/whatever) you get to have Y privilege tomorrow. Remember you have to do it anyway but if you do it by (whenever) you get Y privilege."

    I needed my kitchen cabinets cleaned and oiled, and difficult child 1 needed $20... If I paid a professional it would be about $150. So I told her if she had it done that week (lots of days there), she would get the $20. If not, she would do it that weekend for free.

    That's the last time she did something like that for free. Considering it took a whole lot more work to earn that $20!

    I'm working on getting her to organize the videos right now...
  10. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    that's a good idea!! I heard a mom tell her kid that she had to do her standard stuff (brush teeth, chores, etc) without complaining or being reminded in order to get her allowance or bonus and that seemed to work well for them.