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Manipulation?
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 363688" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>One point we've found which I feel we tend to not notice as much as we should, and which I feel greatly contributes to this - our own behaviour. We apologise to our kids perhaps too infrequently, and when we do, we tend to make it conditional. Then we get upset with our kids when their apologies are far too rare and almost always conditional. Also attached to all this, is a tendency to look for the blame in a situation. As a result, we raise our kids (and I keep saying this - Aspies learn TOO fast, when it's the wrong thing!) to look for someone or something to blame rather than take personal responsibility. </p><p></p><p>I'm not saying that we do this exactly the same way - we don't need to, for them to learn to respond this way. </p><p></p><p>So we need to help them un-learn this. The first thing is to keep making it clear - this isn't about blame, this is simply about making a change. Although in this case, playing with water in the house - that was not the right thing to do. But try to look on it as "playing with water risks doing damage to the things you love best, such as things electronic. Please keep water play outside" - again, stating it as Step suggested, in a "please do it this way" and avoiding negative "don't" statements. I know this may sound very simplistic and way off the point, but actually it is not. It matches what we were told to do especially with spectrum kids - they hear far too many "don't" statements and tend to either not hear them, or feel a heightened anxiety when they hear them and this can make it more difficult to get our message across. And our aim IS to get that message across, and make it stick.</p><p></p><p>Second - keep the kid on topic, do it calmly, quietly and with respect. We're setting up a code with difficult child 3 - "Son, you're getting off topic." He is learning. Slowly.</p><p></p><p>Third - observe yourself and whether you're dealing with times you over-reacted, or shouted, or got it wrong, by giving a conditional apology. These can be really damaging and teach some really bad lessons to Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids, who tend to be very imitative. Extremely. They learn more by following our example, than by doing what we say. And if you think about it - conditional apologies are a way of manipulating an apology to basically turn it into a justification. As parents, we tend to feel that if we apologise unconditionally to our kids at any time, then we are setting ourselves up for disrespect. How can a kid respect someone in authority who has admitted fallibility and error? But in fact, if you are big enough to apologise WHEN IT IS APPROPRIATE, then you are showing your kids that you are big enough to admit when you made a mistake.</p><p></p><p>But it must be unconditional. If you have a justification, save it for later.</p><p></p><p>Example - I hear a loud crash from the kitchen. I walk in and find a shelf on the floor and the cups and saucers that were on that shelf are smashed to pieces. difficult child standing there looking aghast. First reaction - shout at the kid for climbing on that shelf to get at the biscuits. difficult child gets upset and insists the shelf fell all by itself. Then a closer examination reveals that difficult child is correct, and this was just a no-blame situation. The right thing to do, even if difficult child has yelled at you for yelling at him (which, especially for a difficult child kid, is an understandable reaction) is - you should apologise. You made an unfair and incorrect accusation. Now, an unconditional apology is, "I'm sorry, son. I shouldn't have blamed you. I was wrong to do so. You did nothing wrong."</p><p>A conditional apology is, "I'm sorry for shouting at you when it wasn't your fault. But so often, it IS your fault, it was natural that I assumed it was this time too."</p><p>Now, this second apology has just become a non-apology, because it has included criticism of past events that should be left in the past for now - if it hadn't been for this accident, you wouldn't have mentioned it right ow, would you? As for difficult child - how does he feel? He's just been unfairly blamed, you begin to apologise, then you hand him another criticism apparently out of the blue, which makes him feel bad all over again. And he feels bad with nothing positive learned.</p><p></p><p>Another thing about this example of the shelf - it is a no-fault event. You might note in a situation like this, how difficult child will be trying to find someone or something to blame. "We should sue the maker of that shelf, those screws broke and should have been strong enough." Listen to yourself and your kids over the next week or so, see if they (or you) have this tendency to look for the blame in a situation. We do tend to do this, because sometimes it helps our kids see cause and effect, and thereby learn how to avoid negative consequences. But we also need to teach that sometimes bad things happen to good people and we can't change this. We have to learn sometimes to just accept what IS, and move on.</p><p></p><p>Taking all this together, especially with Aspie kids we can unwittingly teach our kids to try to talk their way out of trouble - they learn to be manipulative, in their zeal to deflect blame. And they also look for the blame in a situation, even if blame either doesn't exist or exists elsewhere. Aspies also have a harder time staying on topic, so put it all together and what you have is, frankly, fairly normal. I think a lot of us with Aspies have said, "My kid is halfway to a law degree already."</p><p></p><p>How you would fix this with a easy child is not likely to work with a difficult child. But the methods I have suggested will work on PCs and difficult children alike.</p><p></p><p>I hope this helps. You've already had some good advice.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 363688, member: 1991"] One point we've found which I feel we tend to not notice as much as we should, and which I feel greatly contributes to this - our own behaviour. We apologise to our kids perhaps too infrequently, and when we do, we tend to make it conditional. Then we get upset with our kids when their apologies are far too rare and almost always conditional. Also attached to all this, is a tendency to look for the blame in a situation. As a result, we raise our kids (and I keep saying this - Aspies learn TOO fast, when it's the wrong thing!) to look for someone or something to blame rather than take personal responsibility. I'm not saying that we do this exactly the same way - we don't need to, for them to learn to respond this way. So we need to help them un-learn this. The first thing is to keep making it clear - this isn't about blame, this is simply about making a change. Although in this case, playing with water in the house - that was not the right thing to do. But try to look on it as "playing with water risks doing damage to the things you love best, such as things electronic. Please keep water play outside" - again, stating it as Step suggested, in a "please do it this way" and avoiding negative "don't" statements. I know this may sound very simplistic and way off the point, but actually it is not. It matches what we were told to do especially with spectrum kids - they hear far too many "don't" statements and tend to either not hear them, or feel a heightened anxiety when they hear them and this can make it more difficult to get our message across. And our aim IS to get that message across, and make it stick. Second - keep the kid on topic, do it calmly, quietly and with respect. We're setting up a code with difficult child 3 - "Son, you're getting off topic." He is learning. Slowly. Third - observe yourself and whether you're dealing with times you over-reacted, or shouted, or got it wrong, by giving a conditional apology. These can be really damaging and teach some really bad lessons to Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids, who tend to be very imitative. Extremely. They learn more by following our example, than by doing what we say. And if you think about it - conditional apologies are a way of manipulating an apology to basically turn it into a justification. As parents, we tend to feel that if we apologise unconditionally to our kids at any time, then we are setting ourselves up for disrespect. How can a kid respect someone in authority who has admitted fallibility and error? But in fact, if you are big enough to apologise WHEN IT IS APPROPRIATE, then you are showing your kids that you are big enough to admit when you made a mistake. But it must be unconditional. If you have a justification, save it for later. Example - I hear a loud crash from the kitchen. I walk in and find a shelf on the floor and the cups and saucers that were on that shelf are smashed to pieces. difficult child standing there looking aghast. First reaction - shout at the kid for climbing on that shelf to get at the biscuits. difficult child gets upset and insists the shelf fell all by itself. Then a closer examination reveals that difficult child is correct, and this was just a no-blame situation. The right thing to do, even if difficult child has yelled at you for yelling at him (which, especially for a difficult child kid, is an understandable reaction) is - you should apologise. You made an unfair and incorrect accusation. Now, an unconditional apology is, "I'm sorry, son. I shouldn't have blamed you. I was wrong to do so. You did nothing wrong." A conditional apology is, "I'm sorry for shouting at you when it wasn't your fault. But so often, it IS your fault, it was natural that I assumed it was this time too." Now, this second apology has just become a non-apology, because it has included criticism of past events that should be left in the past for now - if it hadn't been for this accident, you wouldn't have mentioned it right ow, would you? As for difficult child - how does he feel? He's just been unfairly blamed, you begin to apologise, then you hand him another criticism apparently out of the blue, which makes him feel bad all over again. And he feels bad with nothing positive learned. Another thing about this example of the shelf - it is a no-fault event. You might note in a situation like this, how difficult child will be trying to find someone or something to blame. "We should sue the maker of that shelf, those screws broke and should have been strong enough." Listen to yourself and your kids over the next week or so, see if they (or you) have this tendency to look for the blame in a situation. We do tend to do this, because sometimes it helps our kids see cause and effect, and thereby learn how to avoid negative consequences. But we also need to teach that sometimes bad things happen to good people and we can't change this. We have to learn sometimes to just accept what IS, and move on. Taking all this together, especially with Aspie kids we can unwittingly teach our kids to try to talk their way out of trouble - they learn to be manipulative, in their zeal to deflect blame. And they also look for the blame in a situation, even if blame either doesn't exist or exists elsewhere. Aspies also have a harder time staying on topic, so put it all together and what you have is, frankly, fairly normal. I think a lot of us with Aspies have said, "My kid is halfway to a law degree already." How you would fix this with a easy child is not likely to work with a difficult child. But the methods I have suggested will work on PCs and difficult children alike. I hope this helps. You've already had some good advice. Marg [/QUOTE]
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