Melted down newbie

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by libranaster, Apr 27, 2008.

  1. libranaster

    libranaster New Member

    I had to say melted down because melting down would be an understatement. I am in a very sad situation and I need advice. I am going to be very honest and I would prefer if there was no judgment or cruel words about how things are right now.

    I am worried about my son Elijah. I am going to take him to a pediatrician when we have the money because things are so bad around here. He is 3 years old and he has brought me a grown adult to my knees. I have given up, I can not be his parent. God knows I have tried. Don't get me wrong I love him more than life itself but its just too hard to be his mum. I am so tired the house work is not done to a point where the house is on the gross side because I just can not function with him as he is. He doesn't sleep he is up at 4 in the morning and I am not a person that can function without sleep. I can't function at all I am just to physically and emotionally tired.

    My partner is also on his last legs with him he can't take hime either he is at a point where he a loving father has to hold back from putting him through a wall. We are not violent people we love our children but that is word for word how he says he feels.

    I am just so tired and worried. Elijah barely speaks he screams if you tell him off or he just ignores it entirely. I am sure he does not grasp what he is doing wrong or getting in trouble for even though it is very clear. He wont play with toys and I mean he wont play with toys. He will play with everything else but not toys. If I am not with him, looking at him and interacting with him every minute he will act up and be even naughtier. He is never good there is just degrees of naughtiness. He just wont potty train I have given up on that because I don't know how to potty train a kid like him. If just for 2 minutes he would stop being naughty it would be nice.

    I am just so tired and he is a 24 hour a day job and I can't be a 24 hour a day mum. I really am in need of advice and support I have so much judgment and nastiness about my parenting and me in general like how he is is my fault and I just don't know what to do. I can not parent him and worse still his big sister is suffering for him.

    I love Elijah so much and out of my two kids he is the one I have connected with most because unlike my very independant daughter he has needed me. I always say my daughter got put in her walker and that was it she was ready to move out :sheepish:. My son was such a dependant baby and it was so nice but now he is a nightmare and getting too old to be pooping himself with kindergarten coming next year I atleast want him to potty train for me.

    At the moment I feel like my genes are deffective from having a miscarriage 19 weeks through my first pregnancy, my daughter has speech delays and now my son is just completely off the show. What can I say but HELP!:pouting:
  2. libranaster

    libranaster New Member

    I know I am replying to myself wierd right but I just wanted to say I feel about 50% better just getting how I feel off my chest its amazing what letting it out in an environment where people have similar problems with their kids can do for you.
  3. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    Welcome to our forum, libranaster--I'm glad you found us. Most of us were desperate and feeling like failures when we arrived so I don't think you'll be on the receiving end of judgement from us. Trust me when I say we understand--I rarely left my difficult child unattended and it was exhausting.

    I'm also going to flag down one of our members from Australia so she can help you navigate the assessment side of things.

    What I've pulled out from your post is that your son hasn't yet developed speech, he doesn't play with toys at all, and he needs 24 hour a day attention. I honestly don't know what's going on here but these can be red flags for Autism so you do need to move forward with getting him seen. There may be something else going on and as exhausted as you are the sooner you get to the bottom of it, the better. Also, getting answers at this young age will best help him.

    Is he lining up whatever he plays with into lines or formations?
    How about collecting stuff along the lines of rocks, sticks, string?
    How's his eye contact?
    Is he sensitive to things like tags in clothes, very particular about foods, bothered by loud noises or crowds?
    Is there any family history of anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder (or tendencies), depression, etc?

    Hang in there-we'll see what we can do to get you some help. SRL
  4. libranaster

    libranaster New Member

    I have just finished saying in another post that I do suffer from depression and anxiety and I have all my life and I know he doesn't suffer from those believe me if he did he would be easier to deal with.

    I was worried about autism but from what I have read kids with autism are not very social and although Elijah can be clingy he is not anti social he will run off and play if there are other kids to play with. He especially likes physical stuff like play equiptment and play gyms and what ever else but when it comes to indoor toys he is just absent of all ability to play unless his sister helps him and she is a 5 year old girl going through the he is too little to play with me faze and besides she has gone above and beyond what a little girl should do to help her mum and she still does. I tell people all the time that I don't know what I would do without her and she is only 5. One night when Elijah wouldn't sleep and she could see I was exhausted she set them up in the lounge room and they had a mini sleep over watching wiggles that night and she sent me to bed. What other 5 year old would do that for her exhausted mum. Its like having children on 2 ends of the scale my daughter is the dream child that you sometimes wonder if she wasn't sent directly from heaven and my son is a monster that you wonder if he isn't some kind of punishment from hell.

    He screams and rampages and ever since he was born my poor little girl has had to help mummy and be supportive and she is just a kid and I do worry it effects her but it seems to be in her nature to care for people. I tell her she should be a nurse when she grows up she is that caring to others. She is not a judgemental child either she is the child that people who's children have the disorders mentioned on here hope will make friends with their child. I can not praise her enough she has helped a ton for her age.

    So this was just a long winded way of saying I used to think autism but he is just too social. He can say some words if he likes something like he loves batman so he can say that and doggy and dad and mum and dwink and all that but he doesn't say sentences and most of the time he just babbles away. It is like he is still a baby but babies are not big and heavy and as mobile as a 3 year old :devil2:. So if you imagine taking a 10 month old and putting him in the body of a 3 year old your where I am at. I mean a 10 month old will play but not by themself, they will cry if you raise your voice no matter what you say.

    When I think about eye contact with Elijah its just not something I entirely notice I would say he makes it but then he kind of doesn't stop long enough for me to really know. I think if he stoped moving for a second he might make it but I can't be sure I would have to catch him and physically hold him still to find out. This is why I can't potty train him because next to tieing him to the toilet seat (and I can't do that obviously) I don't know how to keep him still long enough. I mean he isn't dumb when they were showing the Anzac day commercials on the tv he understood that the army men would salute when they played the trumpet (or whatever they play) and he would salute everytime he saw the commercial. So we do get regualr signs he understands what is going on around him he is just so difficult I swear when he does sleep he is up to mischief in his sleep :laugh:.
  5. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    Even if you feel like he's too social I still would still encourage you to move forward with having him seen. The Autism spectrum isn't just one disorder but ranges from what you think of as classic Autism to high functioning children whose issues aren't pronounced. It's very hard at this young age to determine social skills of a 3 year old due to the level that they play on : wanting to play with others can is miles away from being socially appropriate and it's really too soon to tell the latter. We do have a lot of parents come through here who themselves or their doctors initially believed the child was too social to have Autism.
  6. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Hi, Libranaster. I'm another Aussie and I have a very sociable, outgoing autistic son. It is possible and it's not necessarily as bad a diagnosis as you might fear. And yes, he is definitely autistic.
    If you check my sig, you'll see he's not my only one. I describe myself as having four kids, two and a half on the spectrum.

    Back to your son - at 3, it's a ghastly age anyway because they get so frustrated, they want their needs met NOW and they don't understand that the rest of the world doesn't revolve around them. If there's any chance there is autism there, then his frustration is probably even higher, plus his ability to understand from anyone else's point of view is even lower. A bad mix. That side of it does improve as they get older though, so it needn't always be like this.

    One facet of the way they behave - their world is so confusing, so unpredictable, that they have a desperate need to make sense of it even as they are screaming in rage and frustration at every change they didn't expect. So what they do - they try to control it all. They want things just so, just how they want them, and any attempt to impose a change (or your way of thinking) meets with extreme opposition. And if you try to force him round to do what you want - he will win. If not now, then eventually. So when you find yourself heading for confrontation, back off.

    It's good you are tuned in to him - that is going to be very useful for you. This WILL work, you will get a handle on things, but you need help.

    Some initial suggestions - forget toilet training for now. Chances are he's going to be a bit delayed in that area anyway. You will probably train bladder before bowels (I know it's backwards, but that's how it is). A big part of the delayed toilet training is often connected to Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) (sensory integration disorder) because they often are just not as in tune with their body signals.

    It's likely that your son will do better with a routine. However, trying to impose a routine can be really difficult. Watch him - does he already have some degree of routine on his own? If he has, can you work with his routine? For example, we found with difficult child 3 that he got into the habit of a certain order in his evening - dinner, then bath, then clean teeth, then bed. If I tried to get him to have his bath first we had a fight.

    I'm not saying that your son definitely has autism - there are a number of possibilities. All I'm saying, is to not rule it out. People think of autism as being socially withdrawn, bit it's not necessarily. The social side of autism is being socially inappropriate, or socially inept. For example, easy child 2/difficult child 2 as a toddler would not distinguish between strangers and members of the family. When out shopping she would often run off, and run up to any male stranger, especially if she saw one with a beard.

    A book that can help you, regardless of what is wrong - "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. Ask your local library to get it in, then if you want your own copy you should be able to order it through a local bookshop. The discussion on this forum on adapting the book for younger kids is definitely worth reading. We now use the methods in that book, it made my life so much easier. You need to have yourself and your partner on the same page though. Get him to read it, and to read the posts here too if he has time. It's made a huge difference for me and husband, too. And if you're thinking, "I'm exhausted, the last thing I need right now is to have to learn a different way of handling him, on top of everything else, plus there will be programs, charts - I can't think about it, I'm just too wrecked," then don't sweat it. it's not like that at all. No charts. No tricky things to remember or practice. Once you get the concept into your head, it begins to fall into place.

    Something else - he will be worse when he is tired and/or hungry. He is also likely to be fussy about food (taste/textures) and about what he wears (textures again). Where possible, let him have it his way for a while, as long as it doesn't inconvenience you too much. The more he feels he is in control, the less stressed he will feel and the easier to handle he will be (I hope). It won't be brilliant because he is only 3, but it's a start.

    You need help. You need support. You need respite.

    Here's what did the trick for us -
    First, I had him in Family Day Care two days a week, because I physically needed a break. They actually were the ones who flagged him as having problems, although I already had his name down for Speech Pathology assessment (but the waiting lists are cruel). I also put his name down for the local pre-school.

    But - very important - you need to get him assessed ASAP. If money is an issue (and it is, for so many of us) then use the nearest Community Health Centre. Call them up and talk to their intake person. Do you have a local clinic sister? Use them, if you can, to get a referral and maybe hurry up the system. Make sure you take your Blue Book with you.

    Do you have a local GP? Does he bulk bill? Is there a doctor you have used for him (or you, or your daughter) more than once or twice? Choose someone, find someone, and make them your go-between and information coordinator. If the GP you decide on does a Health Care Plan for him (and maybe you? and your daughter?) this enables you to access services such as a psychologist, for a number of sessions, bulk-billed.

    If there is language delay, you need speech pathology assessment. Again, a Health Care Plan can help with bulk billing.
    If a speech pathology report describes language delay, then a psychologist's assessment can then be used on top of this to give a diagnosis.

    Once you have a diagnosis, you have a few more doors open up. Support funding can be applied for at pre-school and school level. You can contact your state Dept of Ed and find out if there is any Early Intervention available and how you can get access. We have a new PM who wants to boost services there, so you can use your local Federal MP to give you some extra 'hurry-up' there if needed.

    You would also be (probably) eligible for a Carer Payment or Carer Allowance from Centrelink. You need a specialist to support your application (there's a few pages on the form that a pediatrician has to fill in) but if you get it, it can help a lot. At the moment Carers are also getting an annual one-off payment of a few hundred dollars per child being cared for (not sure of the amount). Whether you're eligible for the Payment or the Allowance depends on your family income. But you could be a millionaire, and you will still get some financial support if you qualify.

    If they knock you back, appeal. it is almost standard Centrelink policy to knock you back on the first application. But if you appeal and get it, it is backdated to when you first applied.

    If you're concerned that your child is developmentally delayed (the old-fashioned, non-easy child term is 'retarded') you may be able to get your child(ren) assessed through a branch of DOCS. We got referred to them (I was really upset at the time, I felt I was being threatened with losing my kid) and found that all they wanted was to make sure he got properly assessed and didn't slip through the cracks. They did a hearing test for me (important to make sure that language delay is not just due to hearing problems) but because it was obvious at that stage that difficult child 3 was very bright (despite his lack of language) they couldn't take assessment any further.

    So for you now - I think your first port of call needs to be either your GP or the clinic sister, followed closely by a phone call to your nearest Community Health Centre. After that, things should start happening.

    And don't worry about being judged here - crikey, if we don't understand on this site, who will?

    Welcome to the board, I hope we can get you the help you need.

  7. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Oh, Sweetie, no judgement here. We have ALL dealt with problems that brought us to our knees.

    I have an autistic child - he has Aspergers Syndrome - and he was VERY VERY VERY social. He esp liked females with long hair. Even at 3 he was very social and even spoke WAY more words than all the books said was to be expected.

    Autism is a BIG spectrum, so don't rule it out. In the US it opens many doors to have this diagnosis - you can get much help.

    Marg knoes the Australian system very well. She has GREAT advice, and really is very practical.

    I am sorry your partner is so stressed, and that you are.

    Early interventions are the key to helping many kids like ours AND their stressed, exhausted moms and dads. Your daughter sounds like a sweetie, make sure she knows you appreciate her.

    I am sending LOTS of HUGS and support. I have been there, and I know EXACTLY how you feel.

  8. libranaster

    libranaster New Member

    Thankyou so much for your help and support. It is so hard to take care of a kid who is just tearing your house apart. I reckon we can put the stuff he is wrecked into the thousands of dollars and it is like he is punishing me for not doing things his way or for telling him off. Like yesterday I told him off for something I actually don't remember what my days run together these days and he picked up one of the accessories for my daughter's new doll and started trying to break it. I got it off him before he did it. Alot of the info about autism rings true for my son and I am no longer going to rule it out. Especially the not distinguishing strangers from family or friends. Like if someone comes to the door selling stuff they get greeted by a hug from my son. It worries me a bit because there are some sick sick people out there.

    I just have to remember to write down everything he does in order for there to be a proper asessment of him because I don't want to have to drag him to the doctor to be poked and prodded too much. I honestly thought maybe ADHD because he is just so go go go. People have suggested cutting certain foods out of his diet but nothing works and he has always been difficult he was born screaming his lungs out and he just hasn't stopped yet :laugh:. I do feel in a better state of mind after coming here so atleast that helps. I have just spent so long utterly exhausted with this kid its like I have lived 3.5 years in a blur. Now I just have to muster the energy to get him down to the doctor.
  9. libranaster

    libranaster New Member

    I do just wish you guys could write a letter to my mum expalining this because you see the situation is we rent our place off my parents and she wont believe me that it was Elijah who put all the holes in the doors she thinks Rob did :angry-very:. I think about that accusation when I am sitting on the toilet and he is practically knocking the door down to get to me :crazy1:. I mean you can see the door bending but no he would be strong enough to put those holes in the doors. God that woman is so frustrating.
  10. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Something I meant to suggest to you in my last post - check out the website They have a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) questionnaire there which is worth you doing. It might help, as something else to list your concerns. It's not officially diagnostic but you can print it out and take it to a doctor for a professional opinion.

    Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) (Pervasive Developmental Disorder), by the way, is the umbrella term which covers autism as well as Asperger's and another similar condition, Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) not otherwise specified (Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) Not Otherwise Specified).

    As for your mother - drop the topic for now if she refuses to accept that there could be a problem. This is remarkably common. He is her grandson, of course he can do no wrong. She would rather believe you're being attacked by your partner, than believe it could be her perfect darling. Your partner - she has no emotional investment in him that can compare with her investment in you and your children.

    Give it time. I had the same problem with mother in law. My parents and father in law had died before difficult child 3 was diagnosed. mother in law just didn't want to know about any problems. When I was going through a really emotional time after difficult child 3 was born, I couldn't tell my in-laws anything about seeing a psychiatrist or psychologist. I had to keep it secret from them.
    Recently we had both difficult child 3 and easy child 2/difficult child 2 seen for regular sessions with psychologists. mother in law was very scathing on the topic. She doesn't distinguish between psychologists & psychiatrists, sees them all as dangerous quacks who will make your problems worse, not better. But she lives so close to us that some things are impossible to hide.

    What has eventually helped mother in law understand - first, seeing a lot more of him. She has minded him a few times. of course, there are times when his bad behaviour has been blamed on my bad parenting, same story with the other kids. sister in law, I remember, was really unpleasant about easy child 2/difficult child 2 at times, when she apparently broke the rules she had laid down. sister in law simply had not been specific and easy child 2/difficult child 2 had found a loophole in her instructions. sister in law said she was being insolent to use a loophole; easy child 2/difficult child 2 thought she was doing nothing wrong, she had been obedient.

    When difficult child 3 was being assessed, I took him myself, or husband & I went together. At a later stage when we were referred to a multidisciplinary team at a children's hospital, I took mother in law with me. She was pleased I asked her and feeling a bit uncomfortable as there were psychologists there as well as a social worker and a pediatrician. Instead of just being an observer, mother in law was in the room with us all and was asked her opinions too. Later we sat in the next room and watched through one-way mirror as difficult child 3 was given a psychometric assessment. he failed it. mother in law was scathing about the test procedure which made no account of his language delay. If the questions had been given in writing, difficult child 3 would have been able to answer. But he just didn't have the language or the understanding to follow verbal instructions.

    As a result, their assessment of him was very pessimistic. "Mild to moderate autism spectrum disorder. He will never attend a mainstream school; he will not even be ready for a Special Education placement until six years old, at which time he must be legally placed in a school somewhere. Poor prognosis."
    Because of this report we had a few more doors open and got a lot more support in terms of IEP when he did start school.

    We were offered a place in an autism satellite class. This was attached to a mainstream primary school but the satellite class contained only autistic kids, aged between 4 and 7. There were only six kids, maximum, in the class, with at least two trained Special Education teachers plus an aide. They asked if we wanted to met them and have a look at the class. mother in law & I went there, taking difficult child 3 with us. mother in law didn't want difficult child 3 to go to a special class "with problem kids" and I must admit, I didn't want it either, for a lot of reasons. This school was too far from our home and difficult child 3 was not a good traveller. difficult child 3 also was into chasing any birds he saw on the ground, would charge through a crowd to set in flight pigeons or seagulls. The school grounds had flocks of seagulls and was unfenced close to a main road.

    With hindsight, he probably should have gone to this school, but my concerns may have been justified, it could have been a disaster. But maybe I should have tried it. Still, it was my decision, not mother in law's influence on me.

    With all this, mother in law has come to accept the diagnosis. She is still resentful that her grandsons are not perfect, but no longer blames me for it. I can understand her resentment, I share it myself at times. But she has also seen the wonderful improvement we have had as we learn more and as difficult child 3 gets more capable. And the other two, as well.

    sister in law now has seen this too. She sees how we handle difficult child 3 now (using "Explosive Child" methods) and marvels at how I can keep difficult child 3 in order, and how he's a really great kid these days (a bit too frank at times, but loving and gentle). He's come an amazing distance since he was 3.

    If your mother is prepared to disbelieve you when you tell her about the holes - then anything else you can say will also be disbelieved. it's easier for her to believe you are lying, than to accept that her grandson is a problem.

    At some stage in the future, AFTER your son has been assessed and diagnosed, set up an appointment where she comes along too and can ask questions. If your mother argues with you about a diagnosis, don't argue back. Just tell her to take her concerns to the doctor herself. Let the doctor make it clear to her, then it's between her and the doctor, you're no longer the meat in the sandwich.

    I spend a lot of time in company with mother in law. We don't agree on a lot of things, including politics. She is a very opinionated person at times and I've learned to say sometimes, "We need to agree to differ," and change the subject. We get on well because I won't engage on contentious topics. I have my own mental list of topics I can raise, which will set her off on a hobby horse chatting about something that won't ruffle feathers.

    With the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) questionnaire, if by chance your mother sees it and disagrees with it, you could get her to do the test on him. Sounds like she doesn't know him well enough, though. But if she accuses you of deliberately seeing your son in a bad light so he can get a positive score for Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), then you can show her how every question has the categories of possible answers very carefully defined. Besides, if you are incorrect then it's going to be done again later by a professional anyway, who will work it out for themselves. It's not in your interests to make stuff up.

    Let's say, for the sake of argument, that your mother is correct. It's not your son putting holes everywhere, it's your partner. Your son is a perfect angel and tis is all your way of covering for your partner.
    So what happens to your lie as your son gets older? A three year old (not to mention a capable five year old) will be able to tell the truth, in detail. If not now, then very soon. For you to build up such an elaborate, potentially damaging (to your son) lie, is to set yourself up for spectacular failure, to come in a few short months. If your mother is correct and this is your lie, then you will have egg on your face very soon. No sensible person would do this. You would, in such a situation, be reluctant to talk to the doctor about it, rather than willing to find someone who can help. The more professionals get involved, the greater the risk that a lie like this would be exposed.

    I think it just shows how scared she is, that you might be right. It's a truth she just can''t handle yet, so don't try to make her.

    It's a pity, you could do with her support right now, but if all she can say is hurtful to you and not helpful, don't try to engage her.

    It's highly likely she will come round. it may take as long as a few years, but she will not be able to live in denial for too long, not if she wants to stay in contact.

    IN the meantime, you need support. You will have to find it elsewhere for now, at least where your son is concerned.

    Forget the housework. Sleep when he sleeps. Keep him fed and rested, meet his needs as quickly and effectively as you can, and rest. Find some games you can play with him to help him, such as sitting on the floor and rolling a ball to each other (it teaches sharing). Don't push him to do anything he can't handle. Meanwhile, try to keep his mind stimulated. If there is something he likes to do, sit beside him and you do it too, even if it's just banging a saucepan with a wooden spoon. You have your saucepan, he has his. Meet him where he is at.

    difficult child 3 was obsessed with letters and numbers, so I labelled everything in the house. I let him use an old computer, with some software on it that drilled him in number recognition and letter recognition. I wrote down on big sheets of paper, the words he could read or needed to know, and put them into an old photo album so he could turn the pages easily. I would write the word and draw a matching picture. Sometimes we would read them together and we would find the object and touch it, as we read the word. It all stimulated his bran and stopped him from being bored.

    A shapes game - I got him to post shapes into a toy (you know the sort) and I would name the shape as he posted it. Soon I could say, "find the circle," or "find the pentagon," and he could find it. Lots of praise helped.

    At 3, I let him into the toilet with me. He was too young to be concerned about what he saw, and he did begin to get the idea of what a toilet is for. Often he would wander back outside once he had reassured himself that I wasn't going anywhere.

    I'm wondering if your son is feeling very insecure... if he's afraid of you disappearing. There are various stages of mental development that kids are supposed to go through, but autistic kids go through these stages differently. A baby, for example, learns fairly early that as a ball rolls down a ramp and rolls behind a screen, that the ball will soon reappear lower down as it comes out from behind the screen. Once that happens it's a short logical jump to, "My mother is in the next room. She still exists, even though I cannot see her. She will return, or I can go to the next room and find her there."

    With autism, these stages of development (among other things) can also get skewed. They DO get there, but often by a different route or at different times. And yet in some other areas they can be way ahead. difficult child 3 was counting up to triple figures, forwards and backwards, at 2 years old. But he wasn't communicating in other ways.

    Go see your doctor when you can, get some rest in the meantime.

    hang in there, we're here.

  11. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Just a quick note, an amusing anecdote on toilet training:

    This has arisen because easy child 2/difficult child 2 is studying early childcare at TAFE and we were just talking about children's development especially in things like toilet training.
    I mentioned that my sister 'trained' her eldest son to use a potty (for No 2s, anyway) from the age of 6 weeks. It got so that he would fidget if he needed to go; by the time he was a year old he would clearly indicate he needed the potty.
    This got us onto the topic of brain development. Obviously in me nephew, the brain pathways formed early, perhaps encouraged to do so by my sister regularly getting him into the habit.

    But with difficult child 3 - his brain simply didn't make the connection. The older three kids were all in full-time Long Day Care and picked up toilet training fairly easily (except for a period of extreme oddness with difficult child 1 - another story).

    But not difficult child 3. He was in Family Day Care, with another boy his age already toilet trained, and a younger boy currently being trained, but even with bribes difficult child 3 just couldn't "get it". It took another couple of years; he was bladder-trained by about 3, but bowel-training was still very shaky even after he started school.

    His understanding lagged even further behind. I vividly remember one morning hearing difficult child 3 slam through the toilet door as usual, sounding like a SWAT team raid, then the sound effects of Niagara Falls (what is it about male bladders?) and then I heard him exclaim loudly to himself, "EVERY MORNING, there's more wee!"

    To be speaking that clearly, he had to have been at least 6 years old. But he still didn't understand that excretion is a permanent part of life. He somehow thought that he would grow out of the need to ever use the toilet.

    I had to sit him down with my textbooks and give him a lesson in human physiology, before he realised - it's like this for everybody.

    Do make sure you write these things down as you observe them - they are too precious to lose. Besides, you can trot them out at his 21st and embarrass the heck out of him.

  12. libranaster

    libranaster New Member

    I had to share that story with my partner and his friends it made them all laugh :laugh:. The things kids come out with.