Mothers...specifically ones with personality disorders. How their offspring fare.

Discussion in 'Family of Origin' started by SomewhereOutThere, Aug 18, 2015.

  1. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Wow. Just wow.

    Can't say this is my mother in every aspect, but so much of it is exactly what I experienced and the consequences of having a mother who behaved so erratically point out a lot of problems we all had. Not saying she is borderline because she never went for help, blot of what is in here describes her to a "T", at least in her relationship to me.

    Eerily familiar in many ways. In a few ways, doesn't apply. What about your mother? And yourself and your own issues? Your siblings? Interesting read.


    How a Mother with Borderline Personality Disorder Affects Her Children

    Excerpted from: Andrea E. Lamont, Graduate Student Journal of Psychology, 2006, Vol. 8, Teachers College, Columbia University

    Mothers with Borderline Personality Disorder are characterized by a history of broken relationships and marked instability in multiple domains of their lives. It is anticipated that these characteristic behaviors infiltrate the mother-child relationship as much as it interferes with other relationships.

    Children of mothers with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) show a significantly higher prevalence of ‘disorganized’ attachment than children of mothers without Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). Disorganized children face stress management problems, frequently engage in externalizing behaviors, and may even face dissociative behaviors later in life. Evidence suggest that, even in middle childhood, children of mothers with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) may display problems with interpersonal relatedness and affective regulation. Follow-up studies show that disorganized children have more difficulty engaging in ‘democratic’ play with peers at ages six and seven. These children often make executive decisions and are overall more controlling in interactions with both peers and parents. Additionally, disorganized children maintain an inability to appropriately resolve frightening situations in middle childhood years.

    Children of mothers with Borderline Personality Disorder (Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)) are a potentially disadvantaged group of children that are at risk for future psychopathology. Crandell et al. (1997) demonstrated that attachment status is not completely stable, however, children who are able to resolve early traumatic experiences are able to obtain an ‘earned secure’ attachment status in adulthood. Adults with an earned secure status function comparably to adults who had secure attachment status as children (Crandell et al, 1997). These findings hold great promises for the prognosis of children of mothers with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). With adequate attention and intervention, there is hope that children of mothers with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) will overcome the risks associated with this maternal psychopathology.

    Attachment Status and Early Experiences of Mothers with Borderline Personality Disorder

    Mothers with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) are characterized by a history of broken relationships and marked instability in multiple domains of their lives. It is anticipated that the characteristic behaviors of Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) will infiltrate the mother-child relationship as much as it interferes with other relationships.


    Borderline Personality Disorder Symptoms in Context of Parenting

    Characteristic symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder are likely to hinder the ability of a mother with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) to parent effectively, thereby negatively affecting the social and emotional development of the child.

    The complete article is available on the main site: click here


    Some characteristics of adults shamed in childhood


    Written by Jane Middleton-Moz
    1. Adults shamed as children are afraid of vulnerability and fear of exposure of the self.

    2. Adults shamed as children may suffer extreme shyness, embarrassment and feelings of being inferior to others. They don't believe they make mistakes. Instead they believe they are mistakes.

    3. Adults shamed as children fear intimacy and tend to avoid real commitment in relationships. These adults frequently express the feeling that one foot is out of the door prepared to run.

    4. Adults shamed as children may appear either grandiose and self-centered or seem selfless.

    5. Adults shamed as children feel that, "No matter what I do, it won't make a difference; I am and always will be worthless and unlovable."The complete article is available on the main site: click here

    6. Adults shamed as children frequently feel defensive when even a minor negative feedback is given. They suffer feelings of severe humiliation if forced to look at mistakes or imperfections.

    7. Adults shamed as children frequently blame others before they can be blamed.

    8. Adults shamed as children may suffer from debilitating guilt These individuals apologize constantly. They assume responsibility for the behavior of those around them.

    9. Adults shamed as children feel like outsiders. They feel a pervasive sense of loneliness throughout their lives, even when surrounded with those who love and care.

    10. Adults shamed as children project their beliefs about themselves onto others. They engage in mind-reading that is not in their favor, consistently feeling judged by others.

    11. Adults shamed as children often feel ugly, flawed and imperfect. These feelings regarding self may lead to focus on clothing and make-up in an attempt to hide flaws in personal appearance and self.

    12. Adults shamed as children often feel angry and judgmental towards the qualities in others that they feel ashamed of in themselves. This can lead to shaming others.

    13. Adults shamed as children often feel controlled from the outside as well as from within. Normal spontaneous expression is blocked.

    14. Adults shamed as children feel they must do things perfectly or not at all. This internalized belief frequently leads to performance anxiety and procrastination.

    15. Adults shamed as children experience depression.

    16. Adults shamed as children block their feelings of shame through compulsive behaviors like workaholis, eating disorders, shopping, substance abuse, list-making or gambling.

    17. Adults shamed as children lie to themselves and others.

    18. Adults shamed as children often have caseloads rather than friendships.

    19. Adults shamed as children often involve themselves in compulsive processing of past interactions and events and intellectualization as a defense against pain.

    20. Adults shamed as children have little sense of emotional boundaries. They feel constantly violated by others. They frequently build false boundaries through walls, rage, pleasing or isolation.

    21. Adults shamed as children are stuck in dependency or counter-dependency.



     
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  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Sorry. Copied the wrong one and can't delete. Will find the other one another time. It was much more intensive and focused on the mother. We all know what mothers like this can do to us. I wanted the mother description.
     
  3. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    Even to think of what we were left with from this perspective ~ from authentic written out stuff that names true things that happen when the mother is an abuser is helpful.

    That is the area of vulnerability for me, and maybe, for all of us raised by weird, twisted mothers: Who is the liar, here. I am always running up against that wall. What is the matter with me, I wonder, that I could be thinking like this about my own mother, about my own sister.

    But every time I break through that wall, the liar is my mother.

    Or, my sister.

    I will watch for the other article Serenity, but this one was helpful to me, too.

    Cedar

    As I plumb the deeper layers, I am coming to understand why D H says the pictures I have in our home of my mother and sister make him physically ill.
     
  4. SuperG

    SuperG New Member

    This is what I fear for my grandkids. I just wonder how I can help them not feel the effects of being raised by a mom with definite Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) traits. Never even heard of Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) before this forum. I never put much thought into the FOO stuff either, until I found you guys. I was raised in a stable family with no FOO issues that wrecked my childhood, but the father of my daughter certainly was. I don't want this note to turn into a FOO thing (since the Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) post is SO improtant!), but I'm finally accepting that my child only has 1/2 my DNA. I continue to scrutinize the way I raised her (only child, mostly raised by me alone), to see where I went wrong - that's only important to me because I'd love to not repeat an attitide or behavior with my grandkids if I did something really wrong that caused these traits in my daughter. Does that even make sense at all?
     
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  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I need to find the traits of a dysfunctional mother. It's better and explains how kids are screwed up when raised this way, but there is a bit of nature here too, I believe.
     
  6. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    To me, that is a responsible way to look at things for our kids, and for our grands. And for ourselves, too. When you really look at it, we are raising ourselves now, not only with lifestyle choices, but with the kind of self talk we are comfortable with. I have discovered some mercilessly toxic self talk floating around in my psyche, and have been able to address it through the work we do in the FOO Chronicles.

    Back to your thinking on how to ferret out influences we do not want to leave our kid or grands with. Very responsible for all of us to do that, but especially so when our grown kids are so troubled. Whereas you seem to be looking at it in a rational way, I had been raised in a decidedly less than optimal environment. Negative self talk kicked in, along with perfectionism and responsible-for-everything that an abused person comes into adulthood with. I was certain I had done something, said something, to cause what happened with my kids ~ but I didn't know what it was. I could never find what it was. But because I believed I was responsible, but could not find or address whatever it was, I was no longer able to parent with authority or confidence.

    So my take on your question is: If you can name things you would do differently, then do them differently. If you cannot find specific things, if a helping professional cannot give you specific things you can verify, then you were a good enough mom and will be a beloved and good enough grandmother, too.

    We don't have to be perfect.

    We just have to love them.

    My grandmother loved me, and all of us, all the cousins and sibs. I am certain it was my grandmother's influence that made it possible for me to believe there was good in me.

    That is what I had, and it was enough.

    My grandmother.

    To know you are out there in the world and that you love them ~ even if your child forbids you access to your grands at some point ~ will be the thing you can do that will make all the difference for them.

    How many grands, Super Granny?

    We have six. The oldest is 22, the youngest is 6. They're amazing and funny and so bright and I love them in some delightful way having to do with the fact that I am not responsible for them in the same way a parent is. We are forever at war with our son, so I don't know his sons as well as I know our daughter's kids. If we can manage to actually wrangle an invitation he doesn't rescind, we will try to see them soon to re-establish that "someone in the world loves me" for them in person.

    That is what grandmas can do. We can just love them as they are, and that can make all the difference in the world.

    For them, and for us too, really. It is good to be loved, and to love, wholeheartedly.

    We actually have seven grands in a way. We have a grandson maybe who isn't really our grandson, but he has been here with his half-sister and seems willing.

    I get such a charge out of him. So, yeah. Maybe, we will have seven grands, soon.

    He is 22.

    I would like him to see me as a grandma of his.

    :O)

    Cedar
     
  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Although my grandmother screwed up at the end with her $5000 mess that made my mother meltdown and go postal on me, for the majority of my life, my memories of feeling warm and safe are with my grandmother too, Cedar. I was her Golden Child (of her three grands) and the only time I felt loved was when she was around. When I felt threatened or misunderstood or hurt by my mother as a teen, I'd run to her house. She would give me love and a place to stay. Perhaps this was not good for my mother. My mother often said my grandmother made it hard for her to raise me because s he would take over and coddle me when I didn't deserve it. But she didn't think I ever deserved any love (my mother) and she didn't give me any.

    I think my grandmother saw somebody vulnerable, like my mother did, but instead of hurting me, she shielded me. It is ironic that she was not that way while raising my mother (she favored my uncle, although he was an emotional mess as a kid too). But she favored him. And then when my mother had kids and GC was too emotionally tied to my grandmother's apron strings to marry anyone until his 40's or so, my grandmother chose me to be her special child. Right or wrong of her, it saved me from a loveless, friendless childhood and I will love her forever for that.

    TGFG! Thank God for Grandmothers.
     
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  8. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Get rid of them.

    D H has been for 42 years a bulwark of strength to you. The best and most devoted friend a woman could have at her side. Honor him, Cedar.
     
  9. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Lucky you.
     
  10. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I have, like every single one of these.

    I hope so. Can you or D H call him and tell him how much you love him and miss him?

    Yes.
     
  11. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    He did call. We weren't in. We called him back. He didn't answer...and then? He called this morning. I just talked to him and it was great. Some success at work. Son is a self-employed carpenter/tile person/plumber you name it. He can do pretty much anything really well. He bids the jobs he takes on himself, hires those he needs to help him or does the job himself, and is supporting his family on his own through the work he does. He does not have a contractor's license. Does not have the money to take the classes because he needs the money to live.

    So, we did not send money. Even so, we did not send money.

    Son needs a new truck, now. We did not help with that, either. We did give him a truck some years back. We are glad we did, and didn't resent it at all. So, I think that was not enabling. If we had two trucks now, we would give him one again. But we only have one truck, now.

    Anyway, son not only got paid in full (and sometimes, the customer will do anything not to pay the full amount), and not only got paid as soon as the job was completed, but he got $180 dollar tip.

    :O)

    Isn't that something.

    And he just wanted to tell us that, and to talk for a minute and then, he let me go.

    I am a happy mom this morning.

    Really, so proud and happy for him.

    Cedar

    Here is the thing. We have been going through the "I can't do it; everyone is screwing me over; ten million terrible things are happening." And we just kept trying to stick with saying the best things we knew to say and telling him we loved him and we were sure he could do this.

    And he did.

    And he was proud for himself. And he knew we would be proud and happy for him too and isn't that a nice, nice thing that happened to me, this morning.

    Wait until I tell D H.

    So, prayers of gratitude going up, going up so beautifully.

    Awhile back, he made up business cards. They are great. One of the things I had suggested, given the situation with the contractor's license, was businesses like Two Men and a Truck. Like, how had they done that and then, franchised it. I don't know whether the business card idea came out of that conversation or not. But I do know the business card is really cool. He is proud of it.

    I am, too.

    And I have been thinking alot about seeing my children in proud ways, and about how the way my FOO thinking affects my thinking about my children. And about how good and bad things happen to us all. And about how really courageous a struggle it is, to beat an addiction. And about what that must feel like, to the person trapped in that place.

    I wish I had never been so ashamed of what happened to all of us. That shame, that wild insistence that I had failed the kids ~ that was not helpful. That was my toxic shame kicking in instead of putting faith in my kids' abilities to come through it okay.

    Well, at least I see it, now. Am beginning to see it, now.

    Cedar

    Also, though son did not call for Father's Day, he did call for D H birthday. That was a very nice thing, for D H and for me.
     
  12. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    How wonderful, Cedar. I am so, so happy for you.
    Like M.
    Cedar, the classes are a rip-off. All of the info they use is free or very cheap online. Your son does not need the classes. He can read the stuff and take the test.

    If his state is like ours, first is the business and law exam. There is a free or cheap booklet online to order, I think. Also on Ebay people sell State specific study materials. The people who take those expensive courses, sell their stuff after they successfully get their licenses.

    I looked into all of this for M.
    Yeah, I know. Good for Dear Son.
    I am so, so happy for you. He called to share his pride in himself with you. Cedar, how wonderful. I am smiling as I type.
    Yes. I cannot wait for D H to come home. To tell him. Please let us know his response.

    So, so great, Cedar. I am proud of Dear Son. And proud for you, too. Cedar.

    Cedar, who does Dear Son look like? Is he fair, tall, handsome, chunky? Or not?
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2015
  13. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Cedar, just to see, I looked on EBAY. I do not know the state in which your son lives and works, but I entered MINN just to see what popped up.

    This is all your son needs to study for the first part of the exam, which centers on law and professional responsibility. (Each State is somewhat different, so he would need the correct book for the state he is in.)

    The seller is in France! Somebody must have gone traveling with his study book.

    Personally, if you were to buy such a book for your son, I would not feel it to be enabling. I would see it as a very nice and loving gift.

    My state has a very cheap or free book online that addresses the laws. Maybe his does too.
     
  14. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    Thank you, Copa. I will tell son. I will FB him so he gets it next time he checks his FB.

    Thank you, very much, Copa.

    ***

    I hadn't seen your second post when I responded. This is such great information for him, Copa.

    Thank you, again.

    I will go FB him now.

    D H said: "He did, huh? Good for him. That's great."

    Our son looks like D H, but lighter. His features are more regular; his brow line more straight. Bigger eyes. I will try harder to find a picture.
     
  15. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Cedar, I do not know what state he is in, so I am using Minnesota only as an example.

    On their Contractors Licensing Board Website they note the following as recommended reading materials for those who are pursuing licensure:

    Recommended Reading for the Builder, Remodeler and Roofer Exams
    Residential Building:

    International Residential Code for One- and Two- Family Dwellings, International Code Council, 4051 West Flossmoor Road, Country Club Hills, IL 60478, http://www.iccsafe.org

    Minnesota State Building Code, Minnesota Department of Administration, Minnesota's Bookstore, 660 Olive Street, St. Paul, MN 55155, http://www.comm.media.state.mn.us/bookstore

    Minnesota Energy Code - Department of Public Service, Minnesota Department of Administration, Minnesota's Bookstore, 660 Olive Street, St. Paul, MN 55155,http://www.comm.media.state.mn.us/bookstore

    Minnesota OSHA , Chapters 5205-5207, 5210, and 5215, Minnesota Department of Administration, Minnesota's Bookstore, 660 Olive Street, St. Paul, MN 55155,http://www.comm.media.state.mn.us/bookstore

    Code of Federal Regulations, Title 29, Part 1926 (OSHA), Superintendent of Documents, P.O. Box 371954, Pittsburgh, PA 15250, http://www.gpoaccess.gov

    OSHA Excerpts for Contractors, Experior Assessments, LLC, 1260 Energy Lane, St. Paul, MN 55108, http://www.experioronline.com

    Residential Remodeler:

    International Residential Code for One- and Two- Family Dwellings, International Code Council, 4051 West Flossmoor Road, Country Club Hills, IL 60478, http://www.iccsafe.org

    Minnesota State Building Code, Minnesota Department of Administration, Minnesota's Bookstore, 660 Olive Street, St. Paul, MN 55155, http://www.comm.media.state.mn.us/bookstore

    Minnesota Energy Code - Department of Public Service, Minnesota Department of Administration, Minnesota's Bookstore, 660 Olive Street, St. Paul, MN 55155,http://www.comm.media.state.mn.us/bookstore

    Minnesota OSHA, Chapters 5205- 5207, 5210, and 5215, Minnesota Department of Administration, Minnesota's Bookstore, 660 Olive Street, St. Paul, MN 55155,http://www.comm.media.state.mn.us/bookstore

    Code of Federal Regulations, Title 29, Part 1926 (OSHA), Superintendent of Documents, P.O. Box 371954, Pittsburgh, PA 15250, http://www.gpoaccess.gov

    OSHA Excerpts for Contractors, Experior Assessments, LLC, 1260 Energy Lane, St. Paul, MN 55108, http://www.experioronline.com

    Residential Roofer:

    International Residential Code for One- and Two- Family Dwellings, International Code Council, 4051 West Flossmoor Road, Country Club Hills, IL 60478, http://www.iccsafe.org

    Minnesota State Building Code, Minnesota Department of Administration, Minnesota's Bookstore, 660 Olive Street, St. Paul, MN 55155, http://www.comm.media.state.mn.us/bookstore

    OSHA Excerpts for Contractors, Experior Assessments, LLC, 1260 Energy Lane, St. Paul, MN 55108, http://www.experioronline.com

    Minnesota OSHA, Chapters 5205- 5207, 5210, and 5215, Minnesota Department of Administration, Minnesota's Bookstore, 660 Olive Street, St. Paul, MN 55155,http://www.comm.media.state.mn.us/bookstore

    Some of these materials are from Illinois and Pennsylvania. So some of the materials must reflect underlying national or at least regional assumptions, thus might be helpful regardless of the state in which your son works.

    Most of this reading list addresses trade-specific matters. Which are the basis of the 2nd exam that one takes after passing the first one (the business and professional and law part).

    Maybe it would be better to hold this part back as to not overwhelm him. The EBAY book type thing is all he needs for the first exam. I am like the energizer bunny when it comes to research. Sorry.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2015
  16. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Cedar, Amazon has these very same state specific books, for thirty six dollars. They seem to have all of the State. I saw Wisconsin and Utah and a bunch of others
    Buy new
    $36.73
    In Stock.]
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2015
  17. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Oh so nice. Such a nice thing.

    Cedar, I wrote that in my mother's voice. I want to observe two things here. First, my mother could have such warmth and care if she wanted.

    Second, I am beginning to feel pleasure when I channel her loving voice. Still, some pain. But warmth too.
     
  18. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Super kudos to you and your son, Cedar ;)
     
  19. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    I don't know how to express the way it feels, so good and clear and right, to have been welcomed and validated in these ways by you both. In these so great feelings of gratitude and acceptance, I see again, the harm, the poisonous toxicity, in my family of origin, and in the way they choose to see me, my D H, my children and grands.

    Respect for my son here. That is what I see and feel, from you both.

    And this acceptance exposes and then, fills to overflowing, some hurt place within; some place that was come of the way FOO sees us all.

    Thank you; from the bottom of that healed place I did not know I carried, thank you both.

    I will tell son.

    I did FB message him yesterday with the information you'd given me yesterday, Copa. He has not responded, yet.

    But I love him in a cleaner way today than I did yesterday. I can feel the difference.

    Isn't that something.

    Cedar

    Our FOO are such terribly destructive things. Right to this minute, their toxicities are burning away in the hearts of us, touching even the ways we love our kids.

    Maybe what we have done here, on this particular portion of our threads, will begin a chain reaction, healing so many things I could not know existed, before.
     
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  20. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    My mom could be nice too, when she wanted to. She had kind of a childish, girlish voice at times and so do I. I can visualize my mother young and smiling. Once in a while, she could be pleased with something I did. I love that mother. I'm sorry she didn't come around too often and less and less and we both got older.


    I do think she had a classic personality disorder personality (if ya know what I mean) ;)
     
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