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Need input on excessive rudeness from 17/yo
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 91316" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Witz, I agree he's probably also hoping for a negative reaction (because it makes the sarcastic, nasty comments self-reinforcing) but I don't agree with ignoring it. If you ignore it you're not sending a message that it is unacceptable. That's why I feel you DO need to react, but not in a cranky way. It's even harder than simply ignoring, but if you can react with a friendly challenge it can turn it around.</p><p></p><p>One way to think of it - pretend you are giving a lift home to a co-worker or perhaps your boss. And they make a comment like this - how do you react? it's going to be a long drive, you don't want to hear this sort of stuff all the way but you don't want to antagonise the person either. What do you say?</p><p>That's what I try to hold in my head when I challenge the kids or 'call' them on it - I act like they've thrown down the gauntlet in a friendly debate.</p><p></p><p>A neighbour/friend of mine is fairly good company but rather disturbed. I estimate there's some sociopathy, a considerable amount of personality disorder and who knows what else. We've driven to places together sometimes fairly late at night and I've noticed that when he's feeling drowsy at the wheel he tries to pick an argument.</p><p>But I don't argue with him; I refuse to. And this begins to make him angry which keeps him awake! </p><p>My best friend no longer talks to him, because he will often deliberately say something nasty and provocative, purely for the fun of getting other people angry with him. He likes to argue, thinks he's brilliant at it. He boasts to me often that he can successfully argue that the world is flat and nobody can prove him wrong with any logic. he knows the earth is not flat; he just likes to argue for the fun of it. But he really ISN'T good at it, he just argues effectively by bulldozing his own point across. He has a number of favourite things to say to upset people, many involving racism in various forms. My best friend's anger with him only amuses him, he has no idea how badly he offends people - permanently. </p><p>But I handle him in a different way by working out what he wants from me, and NOT giving it to him. I suspect that's what his wife does too, although I've heard her get upset with him very loudly, over something I would have ignored.</p><p>I don't always ignore him, but I never let him think he has won the argument. Instead I challenge him to justify himself, and as soon as I can I change the subject to something I CAN tolerate.</p><p></p><p>Your son is not like my friend in this - my friend is what we Aussies call a ratbag. But the method of engaging in debate rather than harangue also works.</p><p></p><p>The important thing is to NOT give him what he is wanting - an excuse, justification, or even (by trying to ignore it) endorsement.</p><p></p><p>And WW, I understand this is especially hurting for you at the moment. I don't think anyone intended to seem insensitive; I think they were perhaps echoing how they think you might feel at times because most of us have, in some form or other, had to deal with this.</p><p></p><p>I do think that a lot of this negativity and cynicism can really get you down. I know it gets me down a lot and I've told my kids repeatedly, I do not want to be surrounded by negativity for its own sake. It's too reinforcing and life is gloomy enough. If I'm having a smiley day, the last thing I need is a kid bringing my mood down to match his. Just because my kid is miserable doesn't give him the right to make everyone else just as miserable.</p><p></p><p>I hope this helps. Hang in there, and remember you have a right to control your own personal space.</p><p>Another rule to consider which can relate to this - in our family car it is the driver who controls the environment. If the windscreen is misting up, the driver chooses when and how far to put the demister on. The driver chooses what music to play, the driver chooses when to turn the music on or off. And so on. </p><p>And in the same way, I feel the driver has the right to allow certain topics and disallow others.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 91316, member: 1991"] Witz, I agree he's probably also hoping for a negative reaction (because it makes the sarcastic, nasty comments self-reinforcing) but I don't agree with ignoring it. If you ignore it you're not sending a message that it is unacceptable. That's why I feel you DO need to react, but not in a cranky way. It's even harder than simply ignoring, but if you can react with a friendly challenge it can turn it around. One way to think of it - pretend you are giving a lift home to a co-worker or perhaps your boss. And they make a comment like this - how do you react? it's going to be a long drive, you don't want to hear this sort of stuff all the way but you don't want to antagonise the person either. What do you say? That's what I try to hold in my head when I challenge the kids or 'call' them on it - I act like they've thrown down the gauntlet in a friendly debate. A neighbour/friend of mine is fairly good company but rather disturbed. I estimate there's some sociopathy, a considerable amount of personality disorder and who knows what else. We've driven to places together sometimes fairly late at night and I've noticed that when he's feeling drowsy at the wheel he tries to pick an argument. But I don't argue with him; I refuse to. And this begins to make him angry which keeps him awake! My best friend no longer talks to him, because he will often deliberately say something nasty and provocative, purely for the fun of getting other people angry with him. He likes to argue, thinks he's brilliant at it. He boasts to me often that he can successfully argue that the world is flat and nobody can prove him wrong with any logic. he knows the earth is not flat; he just likes to argue for the fun of it. But he really ISN'T good at it, he just argues effectively by bulldozing his own point across. He has a number of favourite things to say to upset people, many involving racism in various forms. My best friend's anger with him only amuses him, he has no idea how badly he offends people - permanently. But I handle him in a different way by working out what he wants from me, and NOT giving it to him. I suspect that's what his wife does too, although I've heard her get upset with him very loudly, over something I would have ignored. I don't always ignore him, but I never let him think he has won the argument. Instead I challenge him to justify himself, and as soon as I can I change the subject to something I CAN tolerate. Your son is not like my friend in this - my friend is what we Aussies call a ratbag. But the method of engaging in debate rather than harangue also works. The important thing is to NOT give him what he is wanting - an excuse, justification, or even (by trying to ignore it) endorsement. And WW, I understand this is especially hurting for you at the moment. I don't think anyone intended to seem insensitive; I think they were perhaps echoing how they think you might feel at times because most of us have, in some form or other, had to deal with this. I do think that a lot of this negativity and cynicism can really get you down. I know it gets me down a lot and I've told my kids repeatedly, I do not want to be surrounded by negativity for its own sake. It's too reinforcing and life is gloomy enough. If I'm having a smiley day, the last thing I need is a kid bringing my mood down to match his. Just because my kid is miserable doesn't give him the right to make everyone else just as miserable. I hope this helps. Hang in there, and remember you have a right to control your own personal space. Another rule to consider which can relate to this - in our family car it is the driver who controls the environment. If the windscreen is misting up, the driver chooses when and how far to put the demister on. The driver chooses what music to play, the driver chooses when to turn the music on or off. And so on. And in the same way, I feel the driver has the right to allow certain topics and disallow others. Marg [/QUOTE]
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