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Need input on excessive rudeness from 17/yo
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 91460" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Sounds like you did well, laying out the ground rules. Something important - you need to thank him for complying and making your time together far more enjoyable. You need to positively reinforce the good stuff, and gently (even humorously?) challenge the negative.</p><p>Instead of being the old man's defender, be the observer calmly saying, "I wonder what he was like to know when he was young? Maybe he was just like you."</p><p>difficult child, of course, is going to scoff at that. No way anything as cool as him is ever going to turn into a lonely old man, shuffling along the street looking for bits of rag or old newspapers to keep warm... wanna bet? He will if he constantly alienates people all the time.</p><p></p><p>Another interesting exercise, but only for the REALLY brave - stop the car, go and talk to the old man, buy him a coffee and ask him about himself. For every negative comment, difficult child has to sit with an example of who he's criticised and find out about their GOOD side.</p><p></p><p>Another option for the almost-as-brave - take difficult child into an old folks' home and have him learn something about the life of one of the people there. Sit with someone, talk to them about when they were difficult child's age and what life was like back then. Ask all the questions parents don't like to ask - did you get on with your parents? Were you REALLY a well-behaved teen or were you a little bit wild sometimes? What was the scariest thing to ever happen to you? That sort of thing.</p><p>It takes time, but it forces him to see a different point of view and to change his negativity about things he doesn't know. Remember, most of this sort of behaviour is aimed at keeping people at arm's reach, especially the people he's mouthing off about. Afterwards it should be much harder to mouth off about someone he's had a chance to get to know. And some of the stories these people have are amazing.</p><p>A kid in a nursing home sees old wrinklies in various stages of decay. But talk to the people and inside their heads nobody is older than 25. Get difficult child to find those who were rebels as teens, hear what they got up to. Don't panic if you find the worst of the worst - you might find an old man who was a teen delinquent - that's OK. Your son can't match the face of an old man to the concept of a troublemaker without getting personally involved and once he does that, he's no longer able to keep the old man at arm's distance.</p><p></p><p>If you have a family member or neighbour who would suffice, use them. The biggest favour you can do for an older person sometimes, is to get a young person to sit and listen to their stories. REALLY listen.</p><p>If you're having difficulty getting difficult child to cooperate, make it a school assignment (set it up with teachers first maybe) or explain to difficult child that YOU want to interview a few people but haven't got the time to work out WHICH ones, could he please find out who HE thinks has the most interesting stories so you can come back later and take some notes.</p><p></p><p>Or 'fess up and tell him that for every negative comment he makes, you want him to interview in depth, one person. And you will be keeping score from now on.</p><p></p><p>A few years ago I was part of a travelling War Memorial exhibition, purely by chance. I had submitted an item belonging to father in law and was asked to briefly speak of his experiences (since husband hates speaking up in public and I don't mind). As a result of that, I was asked to sit with a couple of other war veterans and 'interview' them with a microphone, to get their story for an audience. One old man in particular was very shy and needed the interview process to be drawn out, he didn't know what to say until directed with a question. He kept saying he had nothing of interest, he wasn't worthy of any attention and fuss.</p><p>But his story! I had no idea, I was totally flying blind. All I knew was that somehow his thread was in common with everybody else in the exhibition - it was related to POW experience.</p><p>Turned out this bloke had been in Changi. What's more, he had been one of the few who worked on the Burma railway, and came back to tell the tale. What he skipped over was even more fascinating - a sort of "It's really not that interesting, how they got us from Changi into the jungle." HE made the value judgment as he had clearly been doing for so many decades, because HE couldn't handle his own story. His wife later told us he had opened up more for the seminar, than she had ever heard from him. And while telling the story he was once more a young pilot, never even got the chance to fly more than once, never fired a shot in war, captured as a raw recruit and thrown into the pit of torment called Changi. He was barely out of his teens, still a kid, and as he talked he was that kid again.</p><p></p><p>I do think it would really help a lot of our difficult children to have to do what I did (but without an audience, necessarily) - find the young person in the memories of the old and really see that underneath our skins, we are all young.</p><p></p><p>And if he can tape it - so much the better. When I'd finished the 'interview' (I didn't have to do anything much after the first five minutes, just hold the mike steady) people had tears in their eyes, the old man stood tall again (as he hadn't before) and I was in awe. I went up to the organisers and asked for a copy of their tape.</p><p>"What tape?" she said. "We had no idea, we simply weren't prepared for this."</p><p></p><p>It was a one-off. I was just a person pulled out of the crowd to help out. They had planned on everything being informal - an exhibition of POW memorabilia (fascinating, ingenious, a monument to never letting anyone break your spirit) and also of the individual's stories, in little pockets here and there. What they hadn't realised was that every story is a gem.</p><p></p><p>I'm a pacifist. I don't like conflict in my car, I can't stand the thought of war, I'm terrified of the whole idea of losing someone I love. I hate the injustice of it all, I wish a lot of the time we used more diplomacy and less of the jackboot.</p><p>But war happens. Conflict with our kids happens. And to fight either with pure obstinacy and refusal to deal with, simply doesn't work.</p><p>My pacifism meant nothing to those blokes who spent time in POW camps. Some of them were pacifists too, this was THEIR way of trying to stop war. This wasn't about judgements, this was about simply the experiences.</p><p>One of the men who spoke had been a young boy, not even in his teens, when interred in Malaysia. His contribution for display was a portrait done of him as that child, drawn in charcoal from the fires.</p><p></p><p>Conflict breeds conflict, if we let it. But if you can handle the conflict in your son by teaching him to listen first (which means you listening too, and then using what you've heard to frame your next question for him) then you will be forcing him to let people in closer to him.</p><p></p><p>I'll shut up now, I'll only keep repeating myself. I really hope you can get through to your son, I have met adults like this and they are sad, miserable people whose sole enjoyment in life is to add to other people's miseries.</p><p></p><p>Not for your son.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 91460, member: 1991"] Sounds like you did well, laying out the ground rules. Something important - you need to thank him for complying and making your time together far more enjoyable. You need to positively reinforce the good stuff, and gently (even humorously?) challenge the negative. Instead of being the old man's defender, be the observer calmly saying, "I wonder what he was like to know when he was young? Maybe he was just like you." difficult child, of course, is going to scoff at that. No way anything as cool as him is ever going to turn into a lonely old man, shuffling along the street looking for bits of rag or old newspapers to keep warm... wanna bet? He will if he constantly alienates people all the time. Another interesting exercise, but only for the REALLY brave - stop the car, go and talk to the old man, buy him a coffee and ask him about himself. For every negative comment, difficult child has to sit with an example of who he's criticised and find out about their GOOD side. Another option for the almost-as-brave - take difficult child into an old folks' home and have him learn something about the life of one of the people there. Sit with someone, talk to them about when they were difficult child's age and what life was like back then. Ask all the questions parents don't like to ask - did you get on with your parents? Were you REALLY a well-behaved teen or were you a little bit wild sometimes? What was the scariest thing to ever happen to you? That sort of thing. It takes time, but it forces him to see a different point of view and to change his negativity about things he doesn't know. Remember, most of this sort of behaviour is aimed at keeping people at arm's reach, especially the people he's mouthing off about. Afterwards it should be much harder to mouth off about someone he's had a chance to get to know. And some of the stories these people have are amazing. A kid in a nursing home sees old wrinklies in various stages of decay. But talk to the people and inside their heads nobody is older than 25. Get difficult child to find those who were rebels as teens, hear what they got up to. Don't panic if you find the worst of the worst - you might find an old man who was a teen delinquent - that's OK. Your son can't match the face of an old man to the concept of a troublemaker without getting personally involved and once he does that, he's no longer able to keep the old man at arm's distance. If you have a family member or neighbour who would suffice, use them. The biggest favour you can do for an older person sometimes, is to get a young person to sit and listen to their stories. REALLY listen. If you're having difficulty getting difficult child to cooperate, make it a school assignment (set it up with teachers first maybe) or explain to difficult child that YOU want to interview a few people but haven't got the time to work out WHICH ones, could he please find out who HE thinks has the most interesting stories so you can come back later and take some notes. Or 'fess up and tell him that for every negative comment he makes, you want him to interview in depth, one person. And you will be keeping score from now on. A few years ago I was part of a travelling War Memorial exhibition, purely by chance. I had submitted an item belonging to father in law and was asked to briefly speak of his experiences (since husband hates speaking up in public and I don't mind). As a result of that, I was asked to sit with a couple of other war veterans and 'interview' them with a microphone, to get their story for an audience. One old man in particular was very shy and needed the interview process to be drawn out, he didn't know what to say until directed with a question. He kept saying he had nothing of interest, he wasn't worthy of any attention and fuss. But his story! I had no idea, I was totally flying blind. All I knew was that somehow his thread was in common with everybody else in the exhibition - it was related to POW experience. Turned out this bloke had been in Changi. What's more, he had been one of the few who worked on the Burma railway, and came back to tell the tale. What he skipped over was even more fascinating - a sort of "It's really not that interesting, how they got us from Changi into the jungle." HE made the value judgment as he had clearly been doing for so many decades, because HE couldn't handle his own story. His wife later told us he had opened up more for the seminar, than she had ever heard from him. And while telling the story he was once more a young pilot, never even got the chance to fly more than once, never fired a shot in war, captured as a raw recruit and thrown into the pit of torment called Changi. He was barely out of his teens, still a kid, and as he talked he was that kid again. I do think it would really help a lot of our difficult children to have to do what I did (but without an audience, necessarily) - find the young person in the memories of the old and really see that underneath our skins, we are all young. And if he can tape it - so much the better. When I'd finished the 'interview' (I didn't have to do anything much after the first five minutes, just hold the mike steady) people had tears in their eyes, the old man stood tall again (as he hadn't before) and I was in awe. I went up to the organisers and asked for a copy of their tape. "What tape?" she said. "We had no idea, we simply weren't prepared for this." It was a one-off. I was just a person pulled out of the crowd to help out. They had planned on everything being informal - an exhibition of POW memorabilia (fascinating, ingenious, a monument to never letting anyone break your spirit) and also of the individual's stories, in little pockets here and there. What they hadn't realised was that every story is a gem. I'm a pacifist. I don't like conflict in my car, I can't stand the thought of war, I'm terrified of the whole idea of losing someone I love. I hate the injustice of it all, I wish a lot of the time we used more diplomacy and less of the jackboot. But war happens. Conflict with our kids happens. And to fight either with pure obstinacy and refusal to deal with, simply doesn't work. My pacifism meant nothing to those blokes who spent time in POW camps. Some of them were pacifists too, this was THEIR way of trying to stop war. This wasn't about judgements, this was about simply the experiences. One of the men who spoke had been a young boy, not even in his teens, when interred in Malaysia. His contribution for display was a portrait done of him as that child, drawn in charcoal from the fires. Conflict breeds conflict, if we let it. But if you can handle the conflict in your son by teaching him to listen first (which means you listening too, and then using what you've heard to frame your next question for him) then you will be forcing him to let people in closer to him. I'll shut up now, I'll only keep repeating myself. I really hope you can get through to your son, I have met adults like this and they are sad, miserable people whose sole enjoyment in life is to add to other people's miseries. Not for your son. Marg [/QUOTE]
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