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New Here- but not new at this struggle
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 174472" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>I can hear Midwest Mom thinking. I'm sure she can hear me thinking the same things. We've had similar experiences with some delays (in some cases) in getting the answers that now seem the most accurate.</p><p></p><p>She's given you exactly the right advice for now - </p><p></p><p>1) Read the book (for an advance peek there is some discussion on the book and how to apply it to younger children, in the Early Childhood forum)</p><p></p><p>2) Get your son thoroughly evaluated. Something is badly wrong, it's not bad parenting and it's not anything you've done wrong. But until you have the answers you need you will find that the current problems will continue. They don't have to.</p><p></p><p>I agree that calling this ODD is both simplistic and premature. Not that you haven't got big problems - but we've seen a lot of underlying disorders which can, under certain circumstances, lead to ODD-like behaviour which is a RESULT of the underlying disorder plus the way we try to manage it. Sadly, the better the skills we try to use (in other words, the better the parent we try to be) the worse this behaviour can become.</p><p>It seems bizarre, but when a good parent is faced with a kid like this, the natural thing to do is tighten the reins and clamp down, becoming a super-controller in an attempt to get the problem behaviours dealt with and the child back on the rails.</p><p></p><p>If this were a fairly normal child, this would be the correct approach. But you are dealing with a child who not only does not respond to this, but it can make him worse. By trying to discipline this, you can be actually aggravating the behaviour problems.</p><p></p><p>The underlying disorder - you can't aggravate that. All that is happening, is that some of these behaviours are emerging in response to your attempts to clamp down.</p><p></p><p>Think of a game of tug 'o war. Two teams, each pulling on the rope in opposite directions. The game can go on forever when each team matches its strength of pull to the other team's. But if you don't care about winning, and you let go the rope - the game is over almost instantly as the other team falls over backwards. OK, you lost the game, but at least you didn't get dragged into the mud pool!</p><p></p><p>With a problem difficult child, you need to pick your battles. Some are not worth the fight. You let go the rope. Or better, don't even pick it up. </p><p></p><p>You managed a lot of the problems by reducing the risks - removing the hazards. That was good. But the major cause - whatever is causing his extreme frustration and anger - THAT still exists. Until you can get a handle on it, the problems will continue.</p><p></p><p>The book will help. It really does.</p><p></p><p>A have a question for you - you said he lies. What sort of lie? Is it the "I didn't do it" kind of lie (even when it's obvious he did) or is it more complex? How complex can his lies be? Is he obvious when he lies? Or convincing? Because there are many kinds of lies, and many different reasons for lying.</p><p></p><p>There are many more questions I could ask, but we will get to them as we dig. I don't want to overload you.</p><p></p><p>But - we're here. We can help. We've been there done that.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 174472, member: 1991"] I can hear Midwest Mom thinking. I'm sure she can hear me thinking the same things. We've had similar experiences with some delays (in some cases) in getting the answers that now seem the most accurate. She's given you exactly the right advice for now - 1) Read the book (for an advance peek there is some discussion on the book and how to apply it to younger children, in the Early Childhood forum) 2) Get your son thoroughly evaluated. Something is badly wrong, it's not bad parenting and it's not anything you've done wrong. But until you have the answers you need you will find that the current problems will continue. They don't have to. I agree that calling this ODD is both simplistic and premature. Not that you haven't got big problems - but we've seen a lot of underlying disorders which can, under certain circumstances, lead to ODD-like behaviour which is a RESULT of the underlying disorder plus the way we try to manage it. Sadly, the better the skills we try to use (in other words, the better the parent we try to be) the worse this behaviour can become. It seems bizarre, but when a good parent is faced with a kid like this, the natural thing to do is tighten the reins and clamp down, becoming a super-controller in an attempt to get the problem behaviours dealt with and the child back on the rails. If this were a fairly normal child, this would be the correct approach. But you are dealing with a child who not only does not respond to this, but it can make him worse. By trying to discipline this, you can be actually aggravating the behaviour problems. The underlying disorder - you can't aggravate that. All that is happening, is that some of these behaviours are emerging in response to your attempts to clamp down. Think of a game of tug 'o war. Two teams, each pulling on the rope in opposite directions. The game can go on forever when each team matches its strength of pull to the other team's. But if you don't care about winning, and you let go the rope - the game is over almost instantly as the other team falls over backwards. OK, you lost the game, but at least you didn't get dragged into the mud pool! With a problem difficult child, you need to pick your battles. Some are not worth the fight. You let go the rope. Or better, don't even pick it up. You managed a lot of the problems by reducing the risks - removing the hazards. That was good. But the major cause - whatever is causing his extreme frustration and anger - THAT still exists. Until you can get a handle on it, the problems will continue. The book will help. It really does. A have a question for you - you said he lies. What sort of lie? Is it the "I didn't do it" kind of lie (even when it's obvious he did) or is it more complex? How complex can his lies be? Is he obvious when he lies? Or convincing? Because there are many kinds of lies, and many different reasons for lying. There are many more questions I could ask, but we will get to them as we dig. I don't want to overload you. But - we're here. We can help. We've been there done that. Marg [/QUOTE]
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