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Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by maniacmansion, Nov 9, 2007.

  1. maniacmansion

    maniacmansion New Member

    Hi! My difficult child is 11, bi-polar, & ODD. He drives me nuts!! Right now we're doing alright, but every time he loses it it gets a little worse. In a few weeks he goes to court for a change of plea. They're letting him plead down from domestic violence to dis-orderly conduct. I got lucky with the school this year, the guidance counsler is working with me to keep him at school & hopefully work with some of his issues. We're trying something new with his priveleges(sp?). NILIF(nothing in life is free) It's used for dog training, but his counslers think it might work for him(slightly modified of course). He doesn't get to go to his grandmother's this weekend so there's a good chance things are about to go down hill. He really doesn't handle not getting what he wants when he wants very well.
  2. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    Hi and welcome to the board!

    OMG, your avatar is hilarious!

    You found a safe place to land. There is lots of good support and advice to be found here.

    Ever read "The Explosive Child"? I highly suggest it. It has helped a lot of people here on the board.

    Again welcome, and hugs!!
  3. I'm going crazy!!!

    I'm going crazy!!! New Member

  4. Star*

    Star* call 911

    Welcome O' cousin Buckeye!!!

    If you stick with NILIF and I mean STICK with it for years - eventually (think to yourself this will pay off when he is 17 or 18) it will pay off. It is a GREAT program - but the results; while lasting - are long to be seen.

    NILWHCQ = nothing in life worth having comes quickly or quickly enough when you live with a difficult child.

  5. 'Chelle

    'Chelle Active Member

    Adding my HI :smile: I think your name and avatar reveal you've maintained your sense of humor and/or your send of the absurd, so that's one good thing you've got going for you. I love them both. LOL Though I think we all want to run away at some point - the group has a tropical island all picked out where there are no difficult children allowed. We can dream anyway.

    No experience with bipolar, but the book The Explosive Child is one that helped us as well. Your NILIF approach sounds like it's probably a lot like Fran's philosopy - Do To Get. I think it's a good approach for any child, teaches them to work for what they want and a responsibility for their own actions for what they receive in life.

    Welcome to a wonderful site. You can find some helpful advice, or even just someone to listen who understands because they've been there. :flower:
  6. Kjs

    Kjs Guest

    We were told our son had bipolar not otherwise specified, ODD. He was taking Lamictal for several years and really worked well for a mood stabalizer. He recently went off medication after three years and is doing well.

    The scariest thing for us and for school was how he could be fine one second and lose it the next. Seemed like we were walking on egg shells all the time.

    Does he have an IEP?
    Several things that have really helped him this year is:

    How he is approached. Instead of telling him how to do something, Ask him how to do it.

    cool off pass. Uses this and seeks out certain people, counselor, principal, program director, aide..they talk and when he is settled down he can rejoin the class. he uses this when frustration and anxiety start building. This teaches him to recognize the signs, keeps outbursts out of the classroom and gives him the opportunity to re-group.

    extended time out - For an extremely bad day, I can remove him from the school setting, take him home, or where ever and when he is ready return him to school. This keeps him out of detention, in school suspension and out of school suspension.

    Use of computer, has helped him with is writing assignments. All of his assignments except math is done on the computer.

    I can really see the accomplishments he has made recognizing when frustration is building. Most of the time he knows when to walk away and breathe.

    best of luck to you
  7. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    Nothing to add to what's been said, but wanted to offer my welcome! :flower:

    I love your name and avatar, too! I think that's how many of us feel on any given day. :smile:
  8. Sara PA

    Sara PA New Member

    Many of us have discovered that what professionals want to call ODD is really either uncontrolled bipolar or an adverse reaction to medications used (sometimes incorrectly) to treat bipolar disorder (and other diagnoses) in children. If either of those situations are the case with your son, you can't teach him not to behave like he is. His behavior is being dictated by a malfunctioning brain and he had very little power to control it.

    PS: Manic Mansion is one of my all time favorite games. Spent many hours bonding with my son playing that game on the old original NES.
  9. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Is your son on any medication? My "bipolar" son turned out to be on the Spectrum. You may want a second opinion from a neuropsychologist (in my opinion, they do the best testing).
    Welcome to the board. Hilarious avatar.
  10. Kjs

    Kjs Guest

    Sorry, I must disagree with this. My son has worked very hard with myself and the program director, counselor, social worker to recognize triggers, frustration and anxiety levels. When he does recognize this HE is able to take control of himself and the situation. It does not always work, but he has made great progress. He IS learning and IS controlling himself. It is a hard, slow process but it is obtainable.
  11. Sara PA

    Sara PA New Member

    You took my comment out of context.
  12. maniacmansion

    maniacmansion New Member

    He takes geodon 60 in morning & 80 at night + clonidine 0.1 mg morning & night. They wanted to put him on depakote, but he's allergic to it. When he was younger (2-5years) he used to have seizures, that's how we know. What is a nueropsych? He was going to get one, but the doctor that does them here in town said he won't do it if the court wants it(& when they found out I wanted it they wanted the results). I just wondered exactly what they are. He goes to the nuerologist at the children's hospital next week I was thinking I'd ask them about it.
  13. Sara PA

    Sara PA New Member

    He had seizures and he's taking that much Geodon? Do you know anything about partial seizures, particularly in the temporal or frontal lobes? They can cause behavior difficulties that are misdiagnosed as psychiatric disorders. Do you know antipsychotics can lower the seizure threshold?

    There are other anticonvulsants used to treat bipolar than Depakote -- Tegretol/Trileptal and Lamictal. (Lithium can lower the seizure threshold too.)

  14. maniacmansion

    maniacmansion New Member

    He goes to the nuerologist on Wednesday. His eyes keep rolling up in his head & nobody can decide if it's seizures or something else. We lowered the geodon from 80 morn. & 80 night to 60 & 80. I'm really new to medications, he just started in January. I refused the medications unitl after I had tried everything else, diet, counsling, him living with his dad, & then Isaid start with the lowest dose & go from there. When he was younger he was on lorazipam to help with the seizures & in my opinion it did more for his behavior issues than these medications do, but the doctor said that's because he was younger then.
  15. Sara PA

    Sara PA New Member

    With a history of seizures, the assumption should be that the eye rolling is seizure activity until determined otherwise. Geodon, like all the antipsychotics, has a caution about use by people with a history of seizure disorders because they know it can lower seizure thresholds.

    Here's my list of links related to partial seizure disorders. Some are written for professionals, others aren't. You might want to read about what partial seizure activity can look like. Unfortunately I discovered the hard way that even many neurologist are in the dark about partial seizure activity.

    The Pediatric Neurology Site: Seizures

    MEDLINEplus Medical Encyclopedia: Seizures

    Partial (focal) seizure

    Medications which may lower seizure threshold

    Possible Temporal Lobe Symptoms

    Temporal lobe lesions

    Temporal Lobe Epilepsy

    Abdominal Epilepsy

    Fear as the main feature of epileptic seizures

    The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy: Seizure Disorders
  16. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    According to the Bipolar Child by Demitri and Janice Papolos, atypical antipsychotics like Geodon can produce a dystonic reaction: "These are involuntary muscle contractions that cause uncontrolled and alarming movements of the face, neck, tongue, and back and uncontrolled rolling of the eyes. Boys are at greater risk for dystonic reactions" (page 106).

    Whether it's seizures or a dystonic reaction, it's likely Geodon is playing a part. I hope the neurologist is able to get to the bottom of the problem.
  17. Sara PA

    Sara PA New Member

    As I learned more about partial seizures and the side effects of antipsychotics, I began to wonder how many children with undiagnosed partial seizure activity were given antipsychotics only to have more partial seizure activity occur when the seizure threshold was lowered. In other words, how often are the side effects of antipsychotics really partial seizure activity which results from the lower seizure threshold....which, of course, is a side effect of the antipsychotic.
  18. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Listen to SaraPA. She is really good at research and helping us understand seizures. Of course you need to talk with the doctor about what your child needs, but a child with seizures needs to be treated for these FIRST!!