ODD question / bit of an introduction

[MamaTeach]

So I just typed out this long into about my DS who his doctor said is displaying ODD and sure enough, the finger brushed the touch pad and it's all gone. Lovely!

Short(er) and sweet version -
My DS is five and in a pre-K/K class at a daycare center. Daily he has physical contact, but not agressive or with malice. If someone breaks a lego thing he's been working on, he'll hit or push the kid to get him away. If someone is running around the class when the shouldn't be, A will hit him to stop him. Obviously not going about things the right way. When these things happen, he doesn't respond well to the teachers correcting him.

At home and almost all other situations, he's a fantastic kid - shares, thinks of others, respectful, polite, etc. If something happens, we are consistant with time-outs and he goes willingly everytime. No tantrums or fighting it. Hitting at home is very rare and if it does, it's him bonking his little sister on the head as he passes by. I look at that as sibling rivalry, but the time out is the same.

So, my question is this, could it still be ODD or any type of conduct disorder if it only occurs in one situation. If those behaviors do not occur or are easily corrected in other situations or with other people, could it still be true ODD?? I would think that those behaviors would be displayed in multiple areas, multiple situations. I am really wondering if the problem isn't my son, whom is not perfect, but is a nice kid everywhere else, but a pain at school. Is it possible that it's the school? I'm not there so I don't know if they are being consistant, following up with concerstations, monitoring, etc

Thoughts?!

 

[runawaybunny]

Welcome to the community.

I just wanted to say hello. Someone with more experience with these behaviors in children your son's age most likely respond soon.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Hi - and welcome.

In my experience and/or observation... ODD isn't really a stand-alone diagnosis. SO, that means there is likely something else going on, and somehow you'll need to find a way to figure that out. But in the mean time...

If he's good at home and not at school, then YES, there is something going on at school. The teachers will not likely see the cause, just the resulting behavior. It could be a vast range of triggers... so not sure I can even tell you what to look for.

How friendly/helpful is his teacher? Would she be able to keep a running log for you? Or at least tell you daily what the incidents were? That way, you can actually talk to your son, and you might be surprised what he knows about himself.

Feel free to bounce ideas, questions, etc. around here - we're "just parents", but between us its amazing who's seen what or has some good ideas!

Good luck.

 

[TeDo]

If someone breaks a lego thing he's been working on, he'll hit or push the kid to get him away. If someone is running around the class when the shouldn't be, A will hit him to stop him.

Do any of these things happen at home for him to react to? It could be school but it could also be that these types of things don't happen at home so you're not seeing them there. A lot of us here will tell you that we don't consider ODD to be a standalone diagnosis. Usually (many times) it is a group of symptoms that are actually displayed because of an underlying cause. Ex: My difficult child was diagnosis with ODD at age 8. We found out at age 12 that he actually has Asperger's syndrome. The behaviors (the WHY's of the behaviors) were very similar. I would recommend you get a thorough evaluation from a neuropsychologist to sort these things out.

Welcome. We are glad to have you. It would be nice if you could do a signature like mine below so we can get an idea of family make-up, diagnoses, medications, etc for those in your household. It helps us remember your situation without having to scroll through endless posts. Again, Welcome to the family.

 

[rlsnights]

No. ODD should almost certainly not be given to a 5 yo let alone one who is not displaying this behavior in all domains at a severe level over a prolonged period of time.

I agree - something at school is a problem.

I suggest you go and observe at least twice at different times/days. Preferably at times when he has had problems in the past.

Patricia

 

[MamaTeach]

Thanks all. I feel much better after reading some of the responses.
I spoke with the child psychiatric at my school and discussed the behaviors at school and in other situations. She feels that there is no way he would be diagnosis with ODD. She agreed with what the evaluation team at the district preschool (when he was evaluation for speech at my request) and my principal with the thought that it's the school. A daycare is not prepared to deal with any "out of the norm" situations. They have no interventions in place, and often the staff is untrained. Most childcare centers only require an associate degree.
She did give me a rating scale for my hubby and I to fill out, as well as the teacher. She's going to rate it for us. His teacher sent me a note saying that she is 100% supportive and to let her know if I'd like any changes to take place. At this point, he has 4-5 weeks left. We are going to grin and bare it the best we can, sure to throw out all the "tattle notes" the teacher sends home.
by the way - Friday she sent a behavior note home because at lunch time DS started spinning around at his desk (play) and had to be told 3 times to stop. Later when cleaning up Legos, he was throwing them into the bucket (something we sometimes do at home to turn clean up into a game, like making baskets). He was told to set them in or go to time out...so he set them in, but was grumpy about it. Yeah, up, that is not note-worthy. He complied with you; I don't give a crud if he was grumpy, he did it! Would it be rude of me to tell him to stop sending me behavior reports unless he had hurt a child on purpose?!

 

[InsaneCdn]

About the behavior notes...
At this point, you don't know what's really going on. So, I'd thank the staff for every note they send, even if most do not require a response. SAVE THEM. Put dates on them, if not there already. Start a log of events - things you know of, whether the info came via note or not - and xref to notes where possible. All of this info may be useful to the professionals who work with him now, and for some time into the future.

I'd give almost ANYTHING to have had - at any point since K1 started school - access to that kind of detailed info.

For example - the LEGO note... no, its not really an issue to be grumpy, so you're right, it doesn't need to be "flagged" as a behavior issue. BUT, its part of the whole picture: is the problem transition points? or, inflexibility (we do it this way at home... so why not here)? or something else entirely? Small stuff is easier for everyone to deal with - but often its triggered by the same things as the big stuff - maybe, its just on a day when the reaction isn't so intense.

Get the picture? The best way to get the picture is with MORE info, not less...
But it can be a bit overwhelming sometimes.