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<blockquote data-quote="mrsammler" data-source="post: 393479"><p>I have been following this family tragedy for several months now, and it has literally kept me up at night a few times, to the extent that I've tried to stay away from it at times, but I'm always drawn back the terrible dilemma you're in. Now I'm going to say, as directly as possible, what I've made of all of this and offer you my counsel, but I warn you--it's hard stuff. Not on you--you've been as wonderful and as patient as anyone could hope for, and then some. But here it is:</p><p></p><p>Your adult daughter appears to be a sociopath. There's no other explanation for all of this--the heartlessness wrt her own children, you, and many others; the never-ending manipulation and lies and refusal to take responsibility. The ceaseless, endless lifetime parasitism, which will never stop. The disastrous and yet loyal relationship with a man who is similarly grossly stunted and worthless and utterly without merit, and himself a manipulative, dishonest user and parasite. And so on and so on. Her symptomology regarding probable psychopathy seems bottomless to me.</p><p></p><p>That said, I know that it is very nearly impossible for a parent to sever ties entirely with a child, even if that child is increasingly and manifestly psychopathic--heartless, dishonest, irresponsible, endlessly inclined toward addictions and parasitism, fatally impulsive and unable to form a life plan, etc etc. I do think, however, that when other children--be they siblings or the difficult child's (an acronym I dislike, by the way, as it so grossly dodges the bullet of the truth in cases like this--but I digress) children--are involved, there comes a time when even a parent must "cut bait" and consider the lives and needs and welfare of the innocents helplessly stranded on the difficult child's grossly dysfunctional island. When that moment of realization comes, a moral responsibility--a mandate--emerges: protect the innocent children from the incorrigibly destructive difficult child. It very much appears that you have arrived at that moment. </p><p></p><p>Your daughter may come to her senses and begin living responsibly and sensibly, but it seems very, very unlikely at present, and I think you have to assume that it will never happen. Someone--anyone--needs to get those children away from her, to protect them from her and, so long as she remains unchanged (and given her age, I think she will never change), to vigilantly and emphatically keep them separated from her (inasmuch as the children can bear such separation, and my guess is that you'll be surprised how agreeably they accept such a separation from their utterly catastrophic mother), and to do all that you can to help them build a new and secure and safe and functional family life. </p><p></p><p>In short, from what you've told us in these many, many heartbreaking posts over so long a span of time, it appears that it's time to set aside any more indecision or hand-wringing about that hideous woman and instead simply do all you can to safeguard your grandchildren from her. </p><p></p><p>More patience and more hope and more delay regarding Katie will not only come to nothing but will simply and knowingly immerse those grandchildren more deeply in Katie's tar-pit of a life. </p><p></p><p>You have done nothing to deserve any of this. None of it derives from the way you raised her. It seems obvious to me that Katie clearly and unambiguously has the worst sort of personality disorder, the one that parents fear most: a cognitive wiring problem that renders her incapable of decent behavior and all too inclined toward the sort of hideous behavior that has blighted your life for decades now. As I say, none of this is your fault. But it's clear now that those little ones need help in the worst way, and you know it--and not to act in their behalf, aggressively and emphatically and immediately, will amount to a moral failing if you don't act. Providence, if you like, has put them and their plight in front of you, and you can't turn away or delay further as you wait and hope for Katie to change in a way that she manifestly is not capable of changing.</p><p></p><p>Cut Katie loose. I know it's nearly impossible emotionally, but those grandchildren need nothing short of rescue, just as if they were in a burning house. Katie is incredibly toxic and dysfunctional and, frankly, very nearly a monster when it comes to her indifference to their plight. You need to do all you can to step in--and, in fact, it is very nearly a moral mandate at this point. There they are, right in front of you. There is there appalling need, in plain sight. Act. Rescue them. Enough of this absurd concern for or about Katie. She does not merit it; shift it to those children. Rescue them.</p><p></p><p>To the others in this forum who will hurl anger at me for my plainspokenness about all of this: is more hand-wringing and "hugs" and all of that doing any good at all? Does it in any way help these incredibly endangered and blighted grandchildren? No. These children are caught in the clasp of an outright sociopath. They need to be rescued--ASAP. They're in a burning house. No more yammering and hugging and all of that--run into that house and get them out.</p><p></p><p>Godspeed. I know this is all very hard. Believe me, it is very very hard to "watch" as a reader in this forum. The house is on fire. Get the children out--immediately and forever and without any delay or concern about these hideous adults who prefer to remain in the house as it burns. Get. The. Children. Out.</p><p></p><p>God bless. You are much in my thoughts tonight.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="mrsammler, post: 393479"] I have been following this family tragedy for several months now, and it has literally kept me up at night a few times, to the extent that I've tried to stay away from it at times, but I'm always drawn back the terrible dilemma you're in. Now I'm going to say, as directly as possible, what I've made of all of this and offer you my counsel, but I warn you--it's hard stuff. Not on you--you've been as wonderful and as patient as anyone could hope for, and then some. But here it is: Your adult daughter appears to be a sociopath. There's no other explanation for all of this--the heartlessness wrt her own children, you, and many others; the never-ending manipulation and lies and refusal to take responsibility. The ceaseless, endless lifetime parasitism, which will never stop. The disastrous and yet loyal relationship with a man who is similarly grossly stunted and worthless and utterly without merit, and himself a manipulative, dishonest user and parasite. And so on and so on. Her symptomology regarding probable psychopathy seems bottomless to me. That said, I know that it is very nearly impossible for a parent to sever ties entirely with a child, even if that child is increasingly and manifestly psychopathic--heartless, dishonest, irresponsible, endlessly inclined toward addictions and parasitism, fatally impulsive and unable to form a life plan, etc etc. I do think, however, that when other children--be they siblings or the difficult child's (an acronym I dislike, by the way, as it so grossly dodges the bullet of the truth in cases like this--but I digress) children--are involved, there comes a time when even a parent must "cut bait" and consider the lives and needs and welfare of the innocents helplessly stranded on the difficult child's grossly dysfunctional island. When that moment of realization comes, a moral responsibility--a mandate--emerges: protect the innocent children from the incorrigibly destructive difficult child. It very much appears that you have arrived at that moment. Your daughter may come to her senses and begin living responsibly and sensibly, but it seems very, very unlikely at present, and I think you have to assume that it will never happen. Someone--anyone--needs to get those children away from her, to protect them from her and, so long as she remains unchanged (and given her age, I think she will never change), to vigilantly and emphatically keep them separated from her (inasmuch as the children can bear such separation, and my guess is that you'll be surprised how agreeably they accept such a separation from their utterly catastrophic mother), and to do all that you can to help them build a new and secure and safe and functional family life. In short, from what you've told us in these many, many heartbreaking posts over so long a span of time, it appears that it's time to set aside any more indecision or hand-wringing about that hideous woman and instead simply do all you can to safeguard your grandchildren from her. More patience and more hope and more delay regarding Katie will not only come to nothing but will simply and knowingly immerse those grandchildren more deeply in Katie's tar-pit of a life. You have done nothing to deserve any of this. None of it derives from the way you raised her. It seems obvious to me that Katie clearly and unambiguously has the worst sort of personality disorder, the one that parents fear most: a cognitive wiring problem that renders her incapable of decent behavior and all too inclined toward the sort of hideous behavior that has blighted your life for decades now. As I say, none of this is your fault. But it's clear now that those little ones need help in the worst way, and you know it--and not to act in their behalf, aggressively and emphatically and immediately, will amount to a moral failing if you don't act. Providence, if you like, has put them and their plight in front of you, and you can't turn away or delay further as you wait and hope for Katie to change in a way that she manifestly is not capable of changing. Cut Katie loose. I know it's nearly impossible emotionally, but those grandchildren need nothing short of rescue, just as if they were in a burning house. Katie is incredibly toxic and dysfunctional and, frankly, very nearly a monster when it comes to her indifference to their plight. You need to do all you can to step in--and, in fact, it is very nearly a moral mandate at this point. There they are, right in front of you. There is there appalling need, in plain sight. Act. Rescue them. Enough of this absurd concern for or about Katie. She does not merit it; shift it to those children. Rescue them. To the others in this forum who will hurl anger at me for my plainspokenness about all of this: is more hand-wringing and "hugs" and all of that doing any good at all? Does it in any way help these incredibly endangered and blighted grandchildren? No. These children are caught in the clasp of an outright sociopath. They need to be rescued--ASAP. They're in a burning house. No more yammering and hugging and all of that--run into that house and get them out. Godspeed. I know this is all very hard. Believe me, it is very very hard to "watch" as a reader in this forum. The house is on fire. Get the children out--immediately and forever and without any delay or concern about these hideous adults who prefer to remain in the house as it burns. Get. The. Children. Out. God bless. You are much in my thoughts tonight. [/QUOTE]
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