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<blockquote data-quote="susiestar" data-source="post: 432250" data-attributes="member: 1233"><p>I don't knwo if any of us can make the kinds of observaations that malika is making from a month or so of posting on this board. We ARE a very close group and we share a LOT. But we have to understand that many times what we post here are our worst fears, our end-of-our-rope, cannot take any more, venting. We write it out and it gives us the release to get a better grip on the rope, and to handle more and more. Many of our kids are very observant, but not all. I have read wintak's posts and am not sure I can blame adoption or not feeling like he belongs for being the main part of his problems. I DO feel that W's feelings probably are perceived by her kids - esp how overwhelmed and sad she feels. How could she not, and how could they miss it.</p><p></p><p>but I htink her treatment of him doesn't show the resentment that Malika is saying is such a huge part of things. I don't get resentment as much as frustration from her. Like W, I do NOT see why it is always the parents that must change and the child must almost NEVER be held accountable for things. I know how terrified she is that her difficult child will hurt her other kids. Malika doesn't know our whole story, but I spent YEARS never ever peeing alone unless husband was home and awake. I had to take J into the bathroom with me or she was bruised and bloody - even when I managed to pee in less than 45 seconds this happened! I could NEVER leave my kids in one room and be in another where I couldn't see them. husband had to take Wiz into the restroom with him if I wasn't home (we did NOT want to risk CPS involvement by taking the opposite sex child into the restroom with us, Know what I mean??? Things were already stressful enough.). This tears your heart apart. You lie awake wondering what on earth is wrong wtih the child, the other children, you, your spouse, what you let them do and see, what you don't let them doo and see. There is NEVER a good answer. </p><p></p><p>ALL you get is what daisyface is getting from her Ms. Ally - you get told taht if YOU change then the child will change in response. Malika, your kids are too young yet for you to realize that with difficult children this is largely hogwash. It is easy to believe this with a 4yo, adopted or not. But things are much different when they are older. I did get control of my temper when my difficult child was older - around 7-9 I waas working hard on it and finally got it under good control. I wasn't abusive before, but i would yell. I grew up with yelling and no one really talked about anger. I got a book that helped me identify the physical signs of anger as it is building up - and how to handle it better. This let me be a much calmer parent. It did NOT make a huge difference in Wiz. ALL the docs - pediatrician, therapist, psychiatrists, everyone said that it would go a long way to Wiz not being violent. As it was he was spanked very very rarely, not hit any other way except a LIGHT tap on a hando r leg to get him to be aware he was doing something. This was NOT painful even in a mild way, it was just a tap and was teh ONLY other way he was physically disciplines. Spanking was reserved for doing things that would kill you - running into the street, sticking things in outlets, etcc... ONLY. Things that would have a result far mroe painful than the spanking. Even when he was old enough that we could do timeout and talk about the danger and we stopped spanking it did NOTHING to lower how violent he was. </p><p></p><p>It is GOOD to learn to be the best parent you can. I am all for that. But all those who tell us over and over that our kids are not behaving like PCs because of the way WE parent or act, well, they are clueless or blind. Mostly they have been treating peopel who are pcs but have difficult child behaviors because their parents are not good parents - they were taught to do those difficult child things. I have a cousin who learned to whine for six hours. After a certain amt of time spent in constant whining, his parents gave in to him. So the next time they tried to hold out longer and he whined longer - to the point that at five years old he would whine nonstop for six HOURS to get something. He was NOT a difficult child, he was a badly behaved easy child because that is what his parents created. THOSE children ARE helped by changing the parents' behavior.</p><p></p><p>But a true difficult child, adopted or not, will NOT change for the better for the long term simply because the parent is more loving or gentle or even more consistent. It is not an easy thing to admit, but so many of us have seen this truth that we know that it is the truth. </p><p></p><p>I am sorry Malika, if this sounds like I am jumping on you. I know you see what you see through the filter of your life. I just think that maybe you don't quite have the same long term experience to make some of the harsh claims you are making. It IS harsh to tell a parent who has been struggling for years to do EVERYTHING, use every resource, every technique, etc... she can find to help her child that if she just loved him more then he would change and not be a difficult child. I know right now you believe this to be true, but you do not have other children except your difficult child and he is still VERY young. I am glad that the changes you have made have helped your family though.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="susiestar, post: 432250, member: 1233"] I don't knwo if any of us can make the kinds of observaations that malika is making from a month or so of posting on this board. We ARE a very close group and we share a LOT. But we have to understand that many times what we post here are our worst fears, our end-of-our-rope, cannot take any more, venting. We write it out and it gives us the release to get a better grip on the rope, and to handle more and more. Many of our kids are very observant, but not all. I have read wintak's posts and am not sure I can blame adoption or not feeling like he belongs for being the main part of his problems. I DO feel that W's feelings probably are perceived by her kids - esp how overwhelmed and sad she feels. How could she not, and how could they miss it. but I htink her treatment of him doesn't show the resentment that Malika is saying is such a huge part of things. I don't get resentment as much as frustration from her. Like W, I do NOT see why it is always the parents that must change and the child must almost NEVER be held accountable for things. I know how terrified she is that her difficult child will hurt her other kids. Malika doesn't know our whole story, but I spent YEARS never ever peeing alone unless husband was home and awake. I had to take J into the bathroom with me or she was bruised and bloody - even when I managed to pee in less than 45 seconds this happened! I could NEVER leave my kids in one room and be in another where I couldn't see them. husband had to take Wiz into the restroom with him if I wasn't home (we did NOT want to risk CPS involvement by taking the opposite sex child into the restroom with us, Know what I mean??? Things were already stressful enough.). This tears your heart apart. You lie awake wondering what on earth is wrong wtih the child, the other children, you, your spouse, what you let them do and see, what you don't let them doo and see. There is NEVER a good answer. ALL you get is what daisyface is getting from her Ms. Ally - you get told taht if YOU change then the child will change in response. Malika, your kids are too young yet for you to realize that with difficult children this is largely hogwash. It is easy to believe this with a 4yo, adopted or not. But things are much different when they are older. I did get control of my temper when my difficult child was older - around 7-9 I waas working hard on it and finally got it under good control. I wasn't abusive before, but i would yell. I grew up with yelling and no one really talked about anger. I got a book that helped me identify the physical signs of anger as it is building up - and how to handle it better. This let me be a much calmer parent. It did NOT make a huge difference in Wiz. ALL the docs - pediatrician, therapist, psychiatrists, everyone said that it would go a long way to Wiz not being violent. As it was he was spanked very very rarely, not hit any other way except a LIGHT tap on a hando r leg to get him to be aware he was doing something. This was NOT painful even in a mild way, it was just a tap and was teh ONLY other way he was physically disciplines. Spanking was reserved for doing things that would kill you - running into the street, sticking things in outlets, etcc... ONLY. Things that would have a result far mroe painful than the spanking. Even when he was old enough that we could do timeout and talk about the danger and we stopped spanking it did NOTHING to lower how violent he was. It is GOOD to learn to be the best parent you can. I am all for that. But all those who tell us over and over that our kids are not behaving like PCs because of the way WE parent or act, well, they are clueless or blind. Mostly they have been treating peopel who are pcs but have difficult child behaviors because their parents are not good parents - they were taught to do those difficult child things. I have a cousin who learned to whine for six hours. After a certain amt of time spent in constant whining, his parents gave in to him. So the next time they tried to hold out longer and he whined longer - to the point that at five years old he would whine nonstop for six HOURS to get something. He was NOT a difficult child, he was a badly behaved easy child because that is what his parents created. THOSE children ARE helped by changing the parents' behavior. But a true difficult child, adopted or not, will NOT change for the better for the long term simply because the parent is more loving or gentle or even more consistent. It is not an easy thing to admit, but so many of us have seen this truth that we know that it is the truth. I am sorry Malika, if this sounds like I am jumping on you. I know you see what you see through the filter of your life. I just think that maybe you don't quite have the same long term experience to make some of the harsh claims you are making. It IS harsh to tell a parent who has been struggling for years to do EVERYTHING, use every resource, every technique, etc... she can find to help her child that if she just loved him more then he would change and not be a difficult child. I know right now you believe this to be true, but you do not have other children except your difficult child and he is still VERY young. I am glad that the changes you have made have helped your family though. [/QUOTE]
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