really bad night

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by paperplate, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. paperplate

    paperplate New Member

    hey all. Rough night. Need to vent. DS13 went completely 'manic'. After the visit to psychiatric 3 weeks ago, they had blamed that episode on the Prozac. Fine. It was the Prozac. However, a couple days ago, he started with the insomnia again. Absolutely would NOT sleep. Eating EVERYTHING in sight...I mean everything. And I just knew we were in a repeat of what happened 3 weeks ago, but he's not on Prozac now, just his seizure medications. So last night, after he'd been up for 3 straight days, I gave him the melatonin tablet. ER doctor told me to use that last month. Well, he went from 0-60 in the anger mode. He just got this look of rage on his face and snapped. He has his prize fishing poles hanging from the ceiling on display. He spent all of his birthday money on one of them (a 200$ pole). He's always been very proud of his fishing collection. Last night he ripped them all from the ceiling and snapped them in half. I kept trying to stop him because I knew that when he came down from WHATEVER the heck this was, he'd be sooooo sad. Meanwhile, he spitting on me and in a full rage. I was basically using my body as a wall to keep him from leaving the room. I didn't want my other kids to see him like him like this. Needless to say, this morning my whole body aches and I'm now waiting for the doctor office to open up....SERIOUSLY, it can't open soon enough. DS13 is passed out and my guess is he'll sleep the whole day away. Now I'm wondering if it has anything to do with me giving him Vyvanse on Friday? Intitially the neuro prescribed it when DS13 was in 'manic mode' on Prozac. The neuro was in a hurry and when I said DS13 was SUPER AGGITATED and HYPER, he just prescribed him an ADHD medication. What he didn't understand was that was only on Prozac (DS13 has never been hyper). But this is a new neuro. And after his ER trip 3 weeks ago he was removed from the Prozac, BUT he still had the vyvanse script. So anyway, on Friday (going on his inattention at school - could have been petit mals), I decided to go ahead and try the vyvanse. BIG MISTAKE! However, the bottle said it leaves your system in 24 hrs, BUT why is he STILL completely off his rocker??? What is going on??? He swears people are talking to him in his room at night etc...Again, he much bigger than me. Actually, this month, he's gained an INSANE amount of weight! He is usually tall and skinny, seriously, he JIGGLES now! In one month he has eaten sooooooooo much. He never stops. Puberty is one thing, but this is crazy. He was just SHOVING everything he could find into his mouth last night. Hamburgers, Perogies, Popsicles, Chips, Bread....sometimes 2 things at a time. He didn't even care about the taste, just HAD to eat. Has ANYONE here heard of this???? I'm desperate, what is this? Is it from seizures? Part of Aspergers? What is going on?
     
  2. Calamity Jane

    Calamity Jane Well-Known Member

    I'm so, so sorry. That sounds so awful, esp. the pushing and the overeating. I have no experience with this, but just wanted to let you know I read your post and I'm sending hugs, hoping you find out the origin of all this behavior.
     
  3. StressedM0mma

    StressedM0mma Active Member

    Oh paper, I am so sorry. I hope the Dr. can figure out what is going on, and get him something that will help. I hope you are not too sore.
     
  4. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    That does sound truly awful. I am glad you are calling psychiatrist first thing this morning!! Hoping they can help. Sounds like a possible stay in a psychiatric hospital might be necessary. Sending hugs for your aching body and heart this morning.
     
  5. Bunny

    Bunny Active Member

    I have very little experience with the amount of eating that he's doing, but I know all about the rages and trying to protect yourself and the other kids from seeing him in that condition. I'm really sorry it was so bad. I think that you're right about how he's going to feel when he wakes up and realizes that his fishing poles are all broken. Will he remember that he was the one who did it, or does he forget what he did during his rages? Will that send him flying into a rage again?

    Definately call the psychiatrist as soon as the office opens and tell them what happened. Hopefully, they will be able to offer you help that will really help.
     
  6. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Sounds very familiar, sad to say. My son went from underweight to I believe around 200 lbs now a year later. I buy treats rarely. He goes on those eating jags but is eating bags of sweet peppers, celery, apples, pears etc.

    The rage sounds familiar too. I've been bruised head to toe.

    My son is very sensitive to medications. His pediatrician decided to check his levels of enzymes needed to metabolize drugs. Turned out to be a good thing. He's missing two common enzymes needed to metabolize many drugs. This means small doses are like overdoses to him
    Kids have died from three small doses (3days) of prozac because it just builds up.

    To complicate it, some medications cause enzyme reduction
    Prozac does that and if that happened to your son his body may not have built up the enzymes yet (not sure what enzymes are needed for vyvance).

    And of course side effects alone can be awful, causing psychotic symptoms ....I think our seizure prone kids are more vulnerable to that.

    Stimulants can lower the seizure threshold so that could be the issue.

    Whats hard is inpatient seizure units won't take aggressive kids sometimes. But sure would be nice to see whats going on over days with him. It has to be so scary to have those auditory seizures. Q's visual perception is affected and when it was frequent he wanted to die to get rid of it.

    I have a team of three docs, neuro, psychiatrist, and pediatrician, I ask the pediatrician to take lead in making sure one doctor doesn't neglect info or give medications to interfere with another. They all email and call eachother and I have private cell phones. We are truly blessed.

    So pediatrician. Is concerned about the weight and yet realistic abt. Need for medications (their clinic specializes in neurobehavioral issues ) neuro really listens and looks deep...but realizes that new conditions are not likely ...rather a complication from what we know is going on.....usually seizures or medication side effects.

    psychiatric is newer (the others have stuck with us since age 2) but owns her own iop and has five special needs kids of her own. Neuro has a son with autism.

    Anyway, yes I can relate. On many levels. I hope your neuro will take a breath and slow down. Trust your gut.

    Q can't do melatonin either. Strangely he does take benadryl daily


    Hugs....
     
  7. buddy

    buddy New Member

    by the way, if he does sleep long and hard, I for sure would question seizures.....even if tired, Know what I mean?? That pattern of sleep after rages, and also for us headaches are the clues in our house....
     
  8. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    I was thinking seizures, too....

    Does he see(or has he ever seen) a neurologist?
     
  9. paperplate

    paperplate New Member

    Yes, he has a neuro, peds, psychiatric etc... The amount of doctor visits is just nuts. What bothers me, is it's so easy for them to slap a label on there, give him a drug and 'wait and see', meanwhile, I have to actually LIVE with him. I've got more sore spots today than I can count. Everytime I put my hands on his chest to keep him from leaving the room, he'd grab my wrists and twist. It's amazing I can type today! My shoulder hit a door frame, my ribs ache and meanwhile, he's in perfect shape! It's crazy, because he's BIGGER than me, but if I had done this to him....OMG! I'd be in jail! However, I know he doesn't belong there. He's clearly having an issue beyond his control at this point. Who breaks their own stuff??? Not to mention, going after mom? Seriously, what bothered me wasn't the physical pain, but the worry about the tremendous amount of guilt and the depression that will follow. This boy has been truly loved and he knows that. But twice now in a month, he has crossed a line, a bad one. I have to wonder how that's going to affect him. Last night he laid, fully clothed in a DRY bathtub and slept! It was sooooo bazaar! I had to take the doorknob off to get in. It was around 3am. I walked him to his room and told him 'I don't know if you can hear me right now, but I love you and we'll get through this'. I have know idea if he even understood what I was saying to him last night. I covered him up and went and slept in the family room just in case he started his late night wandering. I MAYBE got about an hour of sleep. I'm sooooo tired! However, the other two are in school and DS13 is crashed out and now I can't nap because I'm way too upset and I need to be awake to call the doctor when they open. I swear, there are days when I seriously wonder what the rest of the world would think, if they walked in on one of these crazy days. Seriously! We'd all be given straight jackets!!
     
  10. culturanta

    culturanta Member

    I am so sorry your son becomes violent when he rages. Has he ever been hospitalized for observation and medication adjustment? Maybe this is called for?
     
  11. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Yeah, I know we are lucky they decide on medication changes together. Neuro and pediatrician even went to a weekend conference together and talked Q the whole time. Kids like ours teach them a lot. None hold back prescribing if needed but they all look for other options first, especially lowering medications a tiny amount (because of the enzyme thing and his general sensitivity to medications).....I will cry rivers if we lose them. It's so scary.

    psychiatric did research at Mayo and she uses name brand only with Q because theres a legal amount of difference allowed and it can make a huge difference in sensitive people.

    I don't know about you but I've had to call 911 and ask for an ambulance and police when q is too aggressive. I tell them he has a seizure disorder that makes him that way as a primary thing because it seems they are all more patient with that. I have our addy and his condition listed in the 911 call center so they know there's a child with autism. Our school has a safety plan with me if I don't answer the phone and q doesn't come to the bus 911 is called to check in case I'm knocked out. (by the way, as I'm writing this medications are not kicked in and I'm being called a dirty daxx bxxxx. Over and over, totally stuck in his head. Uggg hate verbal tics)

    Even though my head understands where this all comes from, my spirit is worn out some days. It is a natural human response to feel hurt over abuse like that but no one knows how to counsel us when it's not a choice yet to have them leave.

    They'd be killed in a Department of Juvenile Justice system ....no way they can learn social codes for survival, and my son is mixed white, black, Hispanic and wouldn't know about racial issues even. Residential places are set up very behaviorally, earning levels and such....Q has no ability to process in groups or earn things that way. So where would he go anyway? No general lower functioning group homes would keep him if he got aggressive so he'd bounce around. ( so im told by social workers and our in home people who also own and operate residential places)......

    Still, the reality is, if q ever got so dangerous, my being injured won't help him. How will they feel about themselves if we don't protect them from a lifetime knowing they seriously hurt mom or killed her? I have no answer, just sharing. And of course you have the added burden of protecting kids. If he's so unaware, they're in danger.

    You said you have good neighbors. Do you have a home where the other kids can go crash on those days? I think a safety plan for them now that soon to be ex is gone might be important. Do you have that? A secret word that is their code to go?
     
  12. paperplate

    paperplate New Member

    That's what I think he needs too, BUT 3 weeks ago when he went to the ER, they asked HIM if he was felt like hurting anyone or himself...AFTER I told them about him bowling me over that day, his response was "No, not anymore" and they sent him HOME! Seriously?!?! I felt he needed to stay, but it's like they have to hear HIM say it! Mind you, he did calm down after that....WAY DOWN, like spend the last few weeks sleeping, now he's amped back up again...did I miss something? It started a few days ago with the night wandering again etc...insanely happy etc...then another explosion. I'm at a loss. Meanwhile, my other two our leaving with Grandma when they get home from school, simply because I don't know how long this will last. I feel AWFUL about having them go, but what else can I do? They don't deserve to watch this. I just hope that they understand. Sometimes I feel like DS13 gets all the attention, but it's just that he literally REQUIRES it :( And now I'm shipping them off to grammys. I hope they know I'm just trying to keep them safe from the drama. I hugged my daughter this morning when I sent her to school and asked her how she was doing and she seemed fine, smiley, talking about her and her lil gal pals etc... Girlscouts, homework, but I have to wonder what she is NOT saying, you know??? How must it feel to have a brother with serious neurological problems? I told her one day, after one of his melt downs, that DS13 is family. We take care of family no matter what. I made it clear that I wasn't excusing his behavior, but that as a mom, I have a serious biological drive to care for them no matter what! I hope she understands that. I can't just abandon him and move on. They're all my children, even the one that's off his rocker. Will she understand that someday? Or will she look back and say 'mom spent most of her time trying to keep DS13 sane!'?
     
  13. HaoZi

    HaoZi CD Hall of Fame

    Yes, it can be the Vyvanse, it can cause that kind of irritability and whatnot. Sounds like it's not the right medication for him. I've had similar medication reactions from mine. *HUGS*
     
  14. buddy

    buddy New Member

    I think your using a team approach and praising their compassion is lovely. Planning some special one on one time (even if at home while difficult child sleeps) could help....card games, baking, art, etc.

    ER asked Q that too but know he's developmentally not typical so my input is what they have listened to. Would your neuro agree to an inpatient seizure evaluation? If you agree to sleep in his room it could help them agree. Another option would be a walking home evaluation but they have to leave the leads alone. He really sounds like seizures are driving this. Q has been sleep walking too...also screaming suddenly.

    You're doing amazingly. Sibs of special needs kids can be so compassionate and learn a lot about true family love if handled well. Keep reassuring them, send notes to them in school lunches, offer an ear, etc.....
    All the things you say you're doing.....hang in there.
     
  15. TeDo

    TeDo CD Hall of Fame

    Buddy is 100% right. This does sound a lot like Q's seizures and some of his medication reactions. My difficult child 1 had similar reactions to Prozac and Risperdal. I understand the violence AND the overwhelming guilt they feel after a rage. difficult child 1 always remembered what he did during a rage but admitted that "Something was making me do it. It was like being a puppet on a string." Your difficult child is lucky that you have the frame of mind you have. Way too many parents and other "authority" figures seem to automatically jump the the "bad boy" mentality. You really should be talking to your neuro about all this. I HOPE he/she is a good one that actually LISTENS to you. If not, you should think about finding one that does.

    {{{{HUGS}}}} to you AND your DS13. He's going to be devistated when he finds out what he did. It might help to come up with a plan to replace them in a realistic timeframe BEFORE he wakes up, if you can. I know that always helped difficult child 1, knowing what the plan and timeframe was. In our case, nothing expensive was broken so I replaced them since it wasn't intentional.
     
  16. paperplate

    paperplate New Member

    FINALLY! Got an appointment with neuro tomorrow at 11! I'm sincerely hoping they can help. As it is, my other two are going to grammys here, right after school today. I'll miss them both. I just hope they understand that I'm just trying to keep them clear of this.
     
  17. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    They - and you - are so fortunate to have that support system available.
    This isn't a neighbor or school friend... grammies are just another layer of family.
     
  18. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    Glad you were able to get an appointment. Hope it helps.
     
  19. Regarding the weight gain and hunger, what medication(s) is difficult child taking for seizures? Have you made any adjustments to those recently? Seizure medications are notorious for causing weight gain.
    My daughter experienced insatiable hunger on abilify. She was more annoyed by that side effect than the one which caused me to pull her off the medication (motion sickness?!). Teen girls do not take to weight gain kindly, even if they need the extra 10 lbs. My aspergers son has a former classmate whose medication combo seems to be causing a food obsession. The kid constantly talks about food. As you serve him lunch, he begins discussing dinner. It is wild. I love when he comes over and eats up snacks none of my kids like from multipacks- grape popsicles, cheetos, raisen granola bars. If you lived near me, I'd totally invite you guys over :).

    I'm suprised your difficult child was prescribed Vyvanse. In my experience something like klonopin or risperidone is usually the 'go to' for children with rage episodes like you describe. Especially for a child with a sleep disturbance. Why prescribe a stimulant? Oy.

    Let us know how the neuro went.
     
  20. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Oh, no! I am so sorry! He is going to be so upset about the fishing poles. And about you ... I hope.
    What did the dr say?
    I understand what everyone is saying about seizures, but you also said that he ramped up and then slept for weeks, and now he's ramped up again. You ever consider a BiPolar (BP) diagnosis?
    I feel for you. I have been through those rages. And the spitting. I hate that part.
     
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