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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 196474" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Hi and welcome back. I also really value the name.</p><p></p><p>There are likely to be cultural differences here, between your environment and mine. So I will do the best I can.</p><p></p><p>I have two daughters now in their 20s. At first I thought they were both PCs, but am increasingly realising that the younger one is very difficult child at times. And although I wouldn't have described my youngest as hypersexual, she DOES get the 'cuddlebunny" label, plus she is very attractive in a jailbait sort of way. The combination has meant that we watched her like hawks but STILL got caught. We knew that the first bloke she slept with would have a look of stunned delight and amazement on his face - and we weren't wrong. We also knew he would get badly hurt - again, we weren't wrong. It did take another year or more before they broke up, but it was messy.</p><p></p><p>easy child - she actually was younger than easy child 2/difficult child 2 when she first had sex, and when she later broke up with the boy - she was a mess. So was the boy. But in their case, they got back together and are now engaged.</p><p></p><p>We did the best with our kids, tried to raise them right in the church, with good values - all the things every parent tries to do. But I also remembered enough from my own childhood and my friends from school and church - it is NO protection. If anything, it can make you MORE unsafe because it can make you (and the child) smug and complacent. "It won't happen to me - temptation? Not a chance!" And it's either a front, or self-deception.</p><p></p><p>With our kids, when they got old enough for me to really worry, I began what husband & I called "aversion therapy" - we reminded the kids that they were each the result of a sexual union, and that we hadn't stopped our activities in this area whatsoever. We would kiss in front of them, we would hold hands if we felt like it, we would make jokes (not over-the-top disgusting, but enough for the kids to realise we weren't virgins). We also used just about every opportunity to discuss sex and sexual responsibility with the kids. If they acted grossed out by us hugging, we pointed out that as we are married to each other, there should be absolutely nothing wrong with the thought of husband & I having sex.</p><p></p><p>But we kept harping on the subject - if you think you are old enough to have sex, then you are certainly old enough to be sexually responsible.</p><p></p><p>Sexual responsibility involves far more than safe sex and contraception. It also involves UNDERSTANDING why it's important, as well as understanding the social difficulties of asking your new partner to use a condom. What sort of message does this request send? That you don't trust him? That he shouldn't trust you? Or that you should be too innocent to even know about condoms?</p><p></p><p>Sexual responsibility is also about the emotional fallout and other ramifications of having sex with someone; it's the responsibility within the relationship, even if it's a 'quickie' - there is still fallout, still ramifications, still the need for responsibility and consideration.</p><p></p><p>These days kids seem to have plugged in to the "instant gratification" habit so ingrained into them by the advertising they are exposed to. "I want it now, so I will have it now - I deserve it" seems to be the message - if you are a success, you can have whatever you want, when you want it. No waiting. Instant vending machine.</p><p></p><p>The trouble with this, is it ignores the consequences. Teen pregnancy aside, the consequences are disturbing. You have children playing at being adults, without the tools that maturity (physical and mental) can provide to them, to protect themselves. The long-term emotional damage is appalling.</p><p></p><p>A few concerns (other than what I have already generally expressed) - first, does she really know what "having sex" means? For some kids, oral sex is NOT sex; for others, it is. For some kids, heavy petting is considered to be the same as full-on sexual intercourse. For some very innocent kids, simply kissing a girl would have them worried they had got her pregnant.</p><p></p><p>A girl of 12 may not yet be having regular periods. It's quite easy for her to apparently 'miss' a period. Is she charting her periods? She should be - it's part of sexual responsibility. Her body is changing a great deal and this alone can be hard enough to deal with. Adding sex to the mix is like adding gasoline to a heap of gunpowder, right before you throw in the lit match. But how can we get this message home to children who are still such babies?</p><p></p><p>If she has genuinely had sex, then the genie is now out of the bottle and can't be forced back in. That is unfortunate. She needs a crash course in sexual responsibility. If possible, she needs to sign a contract of sexual responsibility - I think every teen should, but it should become mandatory BEFORE the first sexual experience (which should be planned, it should never be impromptu).</p><p></p><p>You may want to modify or add rules of your own. But you need to get a feel for the sexual politics of the kids in her area of influence. I've heard some stories about how in some areas of the US, attitudes to sex among the kids have become worrying - a combination of "let's have sex, I'm bored," and "I want to make my boyfriend happy or I'll lose him; he wants me to give oral sex to all his mates but it's not really sex so I'll do it, to please him so he won't dump me for someone else."</p><p>A child who refuses to go along with what can at times be overwhelming social pressure, can find themselves having a very lonely teen existence, thoroughly ostracised. Meanwhile a girl who DOES go along with it will feel cheap, used, devalued and a doormat. it risks setting her up for a life of putting her own needs and wishes to one side purely to please someone else. A boy experiencing this gets a very wrong message about respecting women (or more correctly, NOT respecting women).</p><p>And that's without even considering the disease risks. Or the pregnancy risks.</p><p></p><p>Very bad, all round.</p><p></p><p>Sexual responsibility has two arms - physical, and emotional.</p><p></p><p>Physical - protection against pregnancy, against STDs (or whatever they're called these days). Also protection against forcing the body to do something it's just not ready for, which includes a girl giving birth too young.</p><p>Deterrents here include showing her footage of the Fistula Hospital in Ethiopia, to show her the GOOD side of what help is available EVENTUALLY for girls who gave birth when still too young and not physically ready. Other deterrents - all the medical information you can get not only on how the body functions, but on all the things that can go wrong. She needs to know about the much greater risk of UTIs as well as how to recognise early symptoms and what to do about them to protect herself from kidney damage. There are even health problems that a normal, healthy woman can get from simply having sex with too many different partners in too short a time! And if she's starting to have sex with one boy at 12, what will she be doing to heighten the excitement, by the time she's 18?</p><p>She needs to be able to pass an oral test, which also includes a practical component - buying condoms, buying a pregnancy test kit, having a Pap smear (and going back for the results), having a doctor talk about sexual responsibility and contraception, and if she really wants to pass with Honours she also needs to learn about the MALE reproductive system including any health problems he may unwittingly have, so she can at least recognise the early signs of testicular cancer, for example. Or recognise a syphilis chancre. Or any other disease manifestations, preferably BEFORE she gets put at risk herself. She needs to know (and believe) the punchline of the old joke, "What's the difference between love and herpes?"</p><p>(A: Herpes is forever.)</p><p></p><p>And now the emotional component - sexual social skills. The first rule is, "Do not do anything you do not enjoy doing, for its own sake."</p><p>The second rule is, "Do not do anything which can do ANY kind of harm to ANYONE, even at a later stage."</p><p>It's almost impossible to have any kind of decent self-esteem when you're in your early teens - it's confidence-shattering. This makes a person (male or female) especially vulnerable to being manipulated into doing something they don't want to do. At this age, so close to the willingness to please of the pre-teens, and still into the tentative exploration, they are very much at risk and very vulnerable to subsequent damage. But they don't see this!</p><p></p><p>To be involved in a one-to-one close 'love' relationship with one other person, exclusively, at such a young age - it's not healthy, because you cut yourself off from the chance (need) to learn how to interact with a wider age range and wider choices. But if you choose to have sex casually, that is also very damaging - not only does it devalue the sex, it devalues the individual.</p><p></p><p>Sex is a very intimate, personal, giving thing. It is the most precious gift you can give to another person, to show you trust them to not hurt you, to show you love them and want to be emotionally and physically close to them, to the ultimate extent.</p><p>To simply toss it around casually - not only does it devalue the sex, it devalues the individuals concerned. If there is a boy who likes her and she has sex with him, he might think she has just made a lifelong commitment to him (or vice versa) when it mightn't have been meant as anything more than a purely physical release. This really messes with people's heads, really badly. The social damage it can do can follow ALL the kids involved, for years.</p><p></p><p>I really don't know how you get the message through.</p><p></p><p>One thing that helped with us - easy child used to watch "Degrassi Junior High". Interestingly, a lot of parents were vehemently objecting to this TV show being on, especially when it began to deal with the problems of teenage pregnancy. easy child was watching this when she was 7 years old and I got a lot of criticism for it. However, she got some very strong lessons out of it which she valued, years later.</p><p></p><p>I happened to see an episode of the original series yesterday, on one of our newer digital TV stations. We've had the new series on about a year ago or more - easy child 2/difficult child 2 watched it but easy child was especially glued to it, for the cameos of the "older generation" - Spike's daughter is now entering Junior High herself, just as there is a 10 year reunion for the first group of school graduates. Again, they deal with the social issues around growing up.</p><p></p><p>But seeing the episode of the first series yesterday - I can't think of anything better to make your child watch, to help her learn social responsibility above and beyond sexual responsibility.</p><p></p><p>It all is going to need to come together, and unfortunately chastity belts are illegal.</p><p></p><p>Good luck with this one, it's a nasty problem. And you didn't necessarily do anything wrong - there are just too many factors. Blame is only going to slow you down - it's time to dig in and find a way to cope.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 196474, member: 1991"] Hi and welcome back. I also really value the name. There are likely to be cultural differences here, between your environment and mine. So I will do the best I can. I have two daughters now in their 20s. At first I thought they were both PCs, but am increasingly realising that the younger one is very difficult child at times. And although I wouldn't have described my youngest as hypersexual, she DOES get the 'cuddlebunny" label, plus she is very attractive in a jailbait sort of way. The combination has meant that we watched her like hawks but STILL got caught. We knew that the first bloke she slept with would have a look of stunned delight and amazement on his face - and we weren't wrong. We also knew he would get badly hurt - again, we weren't wrong. It did take another year or more before they broke up, but it was messy. easy child - she actually was younger than easy child 2/difficult child 2 when she first had sex, and when she later broke up with the boy - she was a mess. So was the boy. But in their case, they got back together and are now engaged. We did the best with our kids, tried to raise them right in the church, with good values - all the things every parent tries to do. But I also remembered enough from my own childhood and my friends from school and church - it is NO protection. If anything, it can make you MORE unsafe because it can make you (and the child) smug and complacent. "It won't happen to me - temptation? Not a chance!" And it's either a front, or self-deception. With our kids, when they got old enough for me to really worry, I began what husband & I called "aversion therapy" - we reminded the kids that they were each the result of a sexual union, and that we hadn't stopped our activities in this area whatsoever. We would kiss in front of them, we would hold hands if we felt like it, we would make jokes (not over-the-top disgusting, but enough for the kids to realise we weren't virgins). We also used just about every opportunity to discuss sex and sexual responsibility with the kids. If they acted grossed out by us hugging, we pointed out that as we are married to each other, there should be absolutely nothing wrong with the thought of husband & I having sex. But we kept harping on the subject - if you think you are old enough to have sex, then you are certainly old enough to be sexually responsible. Sexual responsibility involves far more than safe sex and contraception. It also involves UNDERSTANDING why it's important, as well as understanding the social difficulties of asking your new partner to use a condom. What sort of message does this request send? That you don't trust him? That he shouldn't trust you? Or that you should be too innocent to even know about condoms? Sexual responsibility is also about the emotional fallout and other ramifications of having sex with someone; it's the responsibility within the relationship, even if it's a 'quickie' - there is still fallout, still ramifications, still the need for responsibility and consideration. These days kids seem to have plugged in to the "instant gratification" habit so ingrained into them by the advertising they are exposed to. "I want it now, so I will have it now - I deserve it" seems to be the message - if you are a success, you can have whatever you want, when you want it. No waiting. Instant vending machine. The trouble with this, is it ignores the consequences. Teen pregnancy aside, the consequences are disturbing. You have children playing at being adults, without the tools that maturity (physical and mental) can provide to them, to protect themselves. The long-term emotional damage is appalling. A few concerns (other than what I have already generally expressed) - first, does she really know what "having sex" means? For some kids, oral sex is NOT sex; for others, it is. For some kids, heavy petting is considered to be the same as full-on sexual intercourse. For some very innocent kids, simply kissing a girl would have them worried they had got her pregnant. A girl of 12 may not yet be having regular periods. It's quite easy for her to apparently 'miss' a period. Is she charting her periods? She should be - it's part of sexual responsibility. Her body is changing a great deal and this alone can be hard enough to deal with. Adding sex to the mix is like adding gasoline to a heap of gunpowder, right before you throw in the lit match. But how can we get this message home to children who are still such babies? If she has genuinely had sex, then the genie is now out of the bottle and can't be forced back in. That is unfortunate. She needs a crash course in sexual responsibility. If possible, she needs to sign a contract of sexual responsibility - I think every teen should, but it should become mandatory BEFORE the first sexual experience (which should be planned, it should never be impromptu). You may want to modify or add rules of your own. But you need to get a feel for the sexual politics of the kids in her area of influence. I've heard some stories about how in some areas of the US, attitudes to sex among the kids have become worrying - a combination of "let's have sex, I'm bored," and "I want to make my boyfriend happy or I'll lose him; he wants me to give oral sex to all his mates but it's not really sex so I'll do it, to please him so he won't dump me for someone else." A child who refuses to go along with what can at times be overwhelming social pressure, can find themselves having a very lonely teen existence, thoroughly ostracised. Meanwhile a girl who DOES go along with it will feel cheap, used, devalued and a doormat. it risks setting her up for a life of putting her own needs and wishes to one side purely to please someone else. A boy experiencing this gets a very wrong message about respecting women (or more correctly, NOT respecting women). And that's without even considering the disease risks. Or the pregnancy risks. Very bad, all round. Sexual responsibility has two arms - physical, and emotional. Physical - protection against pregnancy, against STDs (or whatever they're called these days). Also protection against forcing the body to do something it's just not ready for, which includes a girl giving birth too young. Deterrents here include showing her footage of the Fistula Hospital in Ethiopia, to show her the GOOD side of what help is available EVENTUALLY for girls who gave birth when still too young and not physically ready. Other deterrents - all the medical information you can get not only on how the body functions, but on all the things that can go wrong. She needs to know about the much greater risk of UTIs as well as how to recognise early symptoms and what to do about them to protect herself from kidney damage. There are even health problems that a normal, healthy woman can get from simply having sex with too many different partners in too short a time! And if she's starting to have sex with one boy at 12, what will she be doing to heighten the excitement, by the time she's 18? She needs to be able to pass an oral test, which also includes a practical component - buying condoms, buying a pregnancy test kit, having a Pap smear (and going back for the results), having a doctor talk about sexual responsibility and contraception, and if she really wants to pass with Honours she also needs to learn about the MALE reproductive system including any health problems he may unwittingly have, so she can at least recognise the early signs of testicular cancer, for example. Or recognise a syphilis chancre. Or any other disease manifestations, preferably BEFORE she gets put at risk herself. She needs to know (and believe) the punchline of the old joke, "What's the difference between love and herpes?" (A: Herpes is forever.) And now the emotional component - sexual social skills. The first rule is, "Do not do anything you do not enjoy doing, for its own sake." The second rule is, "Do not do anything which can do ANY kind of harm to ANYONE, even at a later stage." It's almost impossible to have any kind of decent self-esteem when you're in your early teens - it's confidence-shattering. This makes a person (male or female) especially vulnerable to being manipulated into doing something they don't want to do. At this age, so close to the willingness to please of the pre-teens, and still into the tentative exploration, they are very much at risk and very vulnerable to subsequent damage. But they don't see this! To be involved in a one-to-one close 'love' relationship with one other person, exclusively, at such a young age - it's not healthy, because you cut yourself off from the chance (need) to learn how to interact with a wider age range and wider choices. But if you choose to have sex casually, that is also very damaging - not only does it devalue the sex, it devalues the individual. Sex is a very intimate, personal, giving thing. It is the most precious gift you can give to another person, to show you trust them to not hurt you, to show you love them and want to be emotionally and physically close to them, to the ultimate extent. To simply toss it around casually - not only does it devalue the sex, it devalues the individuals concerned. If there is a boy who likes her and she has sex with him, he might think she has just made a lifelong commitment to him (or vice versa) when it mightn't have been meant as anything more than a purely physical release. This really messes with people's heads, really badly. The social damage it can do can follow ALL the kids involved, for years. I really don't know how you get the message through. One thing that helped with us - easy child used to watch "Degrassi Junior High". Interestingly, a lot of parents were vehemently objecting to this TV show being on, especially when it began to deal with the problems of teenage pregnancy. easy child was watching this when she was 7 years old and I got a lot of criticism for it. However, she got some very strong lessons out of it which she valued, years later. I happened to see an episode of the original series yesterday, on one of our newer digital TV stations. We've had the new series on about a year ago or more - easy child 2/difficult child 2 watched it but easy child was especially glued to it, for the cameos of the "older generation" - Spike's daughter is now entering Junior High herself, just as there is a 10 year reunion for the first group of school graduates. Again, they deal with the social issues around growing up. But seeing the episode of the first series yesterday - I can't think of anything better to make your child watch, to help her learn social responsibility above and beyond sexual responsibility. It all is going to need to come together, and unfortunately chastity belts are illegal. Good luck with this one, it's a nasty problem. And you didn't necessarily do anything wrong - there are just too many factors. Blame is only going to slow you down - it's time to dig in and find a way to cope. Marg [/QUOTE]
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