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<blockquote data-quote="SuZir" data-source="post: 550238" data-attributes="member: 14557"><p>Yes, this was also common idea with those working in our ER's and psychiatric units 20 years ago. Not only with general public. After they were educated and suicide threats were not handled as empty threats any more and those committing suicide after threats/earlier attempts as ones accidentally following through, our suicide deaths started to come down. They are still much higher than for example yours, but still over 30 % drop is huge. </p><p></p><p>I have to say that my personal experience also don't really support idea of accidentally following through. I have personally known 6 people who have committed suicide. One didn't talk about it beforehand but just felled from the bridge while drunk. It seems it was not something he had really planed long, but fight with the girlfriend and being drunk probably made it sound a good idea. Can also be he was only looking for attention and accidentally fell. Don't know. Two others had had some non life-threatening attempts during the year before suicides, but there is nothing accidental in going under the train in the curve or shooting yourself onto the head with shotgun. Other three had not made any attempts before but had all talked about it. And again, taking heavy overdose of insulin (especially when you are a doctor and have all the needed knowledge), hanging yourself or driving your car as fast as possible to the solid rock are not something that get you killed only accidentally. They all knew what they were doing. That doesn't mean that they couldn't had been helped in few weeks and days leading to these actions.</p><p></p><p>In health care your view becomes easily slanted if you just believe your own eyes. It may seem that those same people are there in ER over and over because of failed suicide attempts that were not meant to succeed or empty threats. And there is truth in that. There are some conditions (mainly Borderline (BPD)) that cause people to self-harm a lot and commit a lot of non life-threatening suicide attempts. That still doesn't change the fact that most of the people who will commit suicide talk about it beforehand. </p><p></p><p>And yes, there are people who talk about suicide to manipulate.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Still over 90 % of those committing suicide have suffered from some mental disorder. Many serious mental disorders have very high suicide mortality. Over 10 % of those with schizophrenia will commit suicide. 8-10 % of those with Borderline (BPD) will do so. People with bipolar disorder have much higher risk for suicide than general population. Also addicts are in high risk. For example 25 % of gamblers who seek treatment have had at least one suicide attempt.</p><p></p><p>As a relative or friend of someone talking about suicide, you of course can not shoulder the responsibility of someone else's life. And to prevent manipulation you shouldn't even try. I don't know your health care well enough to give any advise, but around here, if someone calmly talks about suicide, you can take them to ER or if they 'just speculate' just tell their family doctor. If someone threatens suicide, just call emergency number. The police will check them and if needed take them to the hospital. Being very matter of fact with it helps to prevent manipulation. Just telling that suicide talk/threats are serious and you have no choice but contact to health care over it discourages those who are just trying to manipulate. And lets face it. It is not like one could just listen their child to talk or threaten with suicide and not to worry. So calling 911 and reporting it doesn't make the parent or friend feel any worse or more responsible over other person's actions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SuZir, post: 550238, member: 14557"] Yes, this was also common idea with those working in our ER's and psychiatric units 20 years ago. Not only with general public. After they were educated and suicide threats were not handled as empty threats any more and those committing suicide after threats/earlier attempts as ones accidentally following through, our suicide deaths started to come down. They are still much higher than for example yours, but still over 30 % drop is huge. I have to say that my personal experience also don't really support idea of accidentally following through. I have personally known 6 people who have committed suicide. One didn't talk about it beforehand but just felled from the bridge while drunk. It seems it was not something he had really planed long, but fight with the girlfriend and being drunk probably made it sound a good idea. Can also be he was only looking for attention and accidentally fell. Don't know. Two others had had some non life-threatening attempts during the year before suicides, but there is nothing accidental in going under the train in the curve or shooting yourself onto the head with shotgun. Other three had not made any attempts before but had all talked about it. And again, taking heavy overdose of insulin (especially when you are a doctor and have all the needed knowledge), hanging yourself or driving your car as fast as possible to the solid rock are not something that get you killed only accidentally. They all knew what they were doing. That doesn't mean that they couldn't had been helped in few weeks and days leading to these actions. In health care your view becomes easily slanted if you just believe your own eyes. It may seem that those same people are there in ER over and over because of failed suicide attempts that were not meant to succeed or empty threats. And there is truth in that. There are some conditions (mainly Borderline (BPD)) that cause people to self-harm a lot and commit a lot of non life-threatening suicide attempts. That still doesn't change the fact that most of the people who will commit suicide talk about it beforehand. And yes, there are people who talk about suicide to manipulate. Still over 90 % of those committing suicide have suffered from some mental disorder. Many serious mental disorders have very high suicide mortality. Over 10 % of those with schizophrenia will commit suicide. 8-10 % of those with Borderline (BPD) will do so. People with bipolar disorder have much higher risk for suicide than general population. Also addicts are in high risk. For example 25 % of gamblers who seek treatment have had at least one suicide attempt. As a relative or friend of someone talking about suicide, you of course can not shoulder the responsibility of someone else's life. And to prevent manipulation you shouldn't even try. I don't know your health care well enough to give any advise, but around here, if someone calmly talks about suicide, you can take them to ER or if they 'just speculate' just tell their family doctor. If someone threatens suicide, just call emergency number. The police will check them and if needed take them to the hospital. Being very matter of fact with it helps to prevent manipulation. Just telling that suicide talk/threats are serious and you have no choice but contact to health care over it discourages those who are just trying to manipulate. And lets face it. It is not like one could just listen their child to talk or threaten with suicide and not to worry. So calling 911 and reporting it doesn't make the parent or friend feel any worse or more responsible over other person's actions. [/QUOTE]
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