Toothbrushes in the toilet

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by KTMom91, Feb 4, 2008.

  1. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    I'm slipping off the knot I tied on the end of the rope. Miss KT decided to pay me back for making her plunge the toilet full of poop (that she plugged) by soaking my toothbrush in it, and then putting it back in the holder. I discovered it by accident, when I reached for something in the cabinet and bumped against my soaking wet toothbrush. I am horrified, grossed out, furious, I don't even know what all I'm feeling, but now I'm wondering what other little surprises she's got for me. For the past two weeks I've had some kind of virus with fever, coughing, sore throat, and now I wonder if she's poisoning me. I don't know what to do next. No one else except my husband sees how awful she truly is, and no one else in the family including her father will take her. Her doctor doesn't completely believe me, I can tell, and I truly don't know what to do. Do I file assault charges against her? It's a first offense, so I'm afraid she'll just end up back at home, hateful and even more hostile.
  2. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    Have you considered nanny cams? I would be suspicious too. If nothing else, you could at least put your mind at ease. I would try it in the kitchen and/or your bedroom and see what little Missy is up to. I don't know that I would voice my other suspicions to the therapist just yet if you don't trust that they support you, but I would definitely talk about the toothbrush issue.

    I would also consider keeping personal items safely stowed away for the time being, drinking only individually bottled water, keeping your coffee grounds and condiments safely stowed, anything to keep yourself safe.
  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    First of all, how old is she?
    If you give us some extra information we could help you more.
    1/ Has she ever been evaluated by a Psychiatrist or neuropsychologist and is she on medication? What sort of behaviors do you see that makes you feel she is dangerous (other than this one, which could be anger).
    2/ How was her early development? Speech? Eye contact? Socializing?
    3/ Are there any psychiatric or neurological problems on either side of the family tree, including substance abuse?
    4/ How long has she been acting out?
    I'm not sure you can file assault charges for what she did to your toothbrush, nor do I think filing charges will help her--she needs mental health services more than the juvy justice system. It sounds as if there is something seriously wrong with her. Now, if you do feel she is a danger to you and you call the police there is a chance they'll try to get her help, but no guarantee. Do you have other children?

    You may want to do a signature, like I did below. That would give everyone a fast overview of what is going on.
    Welcome to the board.
  4. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I'm curious - how did she plug the toilet? Was it her stuffing it with paper etc, or was she just 'overproductive' in the excretion department?

    I would punish vandalism, but not her body's output alone. It happens, as the t-shirt says. There are better ways of removing it if it won't flush. Gross, but effective. But I agree with you in using natural consequences - after all, SOMEONE has to unblock the loo. I would do it for her though, if she really couldn't help it. And then put her on a daily morning dose of untoasted muesli.

    I'm reminded of various movies (ie "Private Benjamin") where some poor sap was required to clean the toilet with their own toothbrush. Movies like that make it seem funny, to do that to someone. And acceptable.

    Depending on how old she is (ie how comprehending she is of actions and consequences) I would be holding off on taking action. It would be hard to prove, anyway. From research papers I've been shown, items kept in the same room as a toilet are exposed to aerosol levels of bacteria, especially if the toilet is flushed with the lid up. So swabbing your toothbrush wouldn't be conclusive proof. Also, she could claim you contaminated it yourself just to get her into trouble.

    I'm with Witz and the nanny cams idea. And locking up your toothbrushes, water bottles etc.

  5. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    Thank you for your responses. She will be 17 in August, has been on medications since 4th grade (currently Adderall XR and Risperdal), and was always high energy, crawling at 4 months, standing at 5 months, walking at 8 months. She has been evaluated, diagnosis ADHD/ODD. Her acting out is constant. She wants to do only what she wants to do, takes no responsibility for anything she does, and blames the universe for her difficulties. She has punched holes in her bedroom walls, ripped her bedroom door off the hinges and threw it at me, broke a saucepan and my kitchen counter, kicks furniture, throws things, etc. I believe in logical consequences, so she has no bedroom door, the holes aren't fixed, and if you plugged the toilet, you need to unplug it. She has stated (at the top of her voice and often) how much she hates me and wants out of this house, but she really has nowhere to go. However, my mother, in an attempt to reassure her I think, has said that if anything happened to me, that Miss KT could live with her. So now I wonder. And yes, we locked everything up. Trouble is, I'm never sure how much of her behavior she can help, but doesn't choose to.
  6. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    I'd send her to your mother.
  7. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    Well, at this late stage of the game, there is not too much you can do except try and protect yourself unless you can get her into a psychiatrist for a medication evaluation. If possible, I would do that, as the medications do not seem to be working. Has she had a neuropsychologist evaluation?
    If you feel like she is not medically treatable at this point, I would either place her in a Residential Treatment Center (RTC), or with a relative - or you could try the phosph route, and see if she could get medically stable that way, and then placed temporarily in a Residential Treatment Center (RTC). It sounds like she has some deep problems that need to be addressed and therapeutically worked through.
  8. fosterparent

    fosterparent New Member

    I don't really have any advice to give you but this scares me really badly. My g'sfg are 11 year old twin girls. Older twin over the past 6 months (since starting Vyvanse 50 mg.) and after taking Adderal XR 25 for a couple years, is getting progressively angry at everyone for nothing. Her anger all of a sudden is over the top. She blames everything on her twin sister. When her sister speaks to her she gets angry because she says she's saying things to push her buttons and make her angry. When her sister tries to defuse the situation and not speak or go into her room she gets mad. She gets mad about everything and nothing. This morning she was so angry she was crying and beating the wall in the bathroom when she was supposed to be bushing her teeth. Sister was ignoring her and she got mad. I called doctor and now waiting for a call back. Her entire personality has changed. Is it the medicine change? Is puberty kicking in? All I know is she is scaring me. Not because of her being violent toward me, I think I can handle that but for her. She is so out of control. So it looks like the issues you have now are the ones we're growing into and that is a scary feeling and if you have any suggestions please share.
  9. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    Stimulant medications like Adderral or Vynase can make children/people with mood disorders of any kind become more violent, and liable. It is usually a last resort medication for people with any kind of mood issues, but unfortunately a first choice among the psychiatrists. I would suggest an evaluation ASAP, for both your difficult children fostermom, and yours, ktmom, and see if eliminating the medication helps.
  10. Star*

    Star* call 911

    Document this behavior -
    Go to your local police dept-
    Seek family court and file a petition of incorrigibility -

    You need to get her out of your house NOW.

  11. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    I'm with Star. Document everything in the past now. Take pictures of holes, doors off of hinges (by the way, hope she didn't get her door back), etc. The next time she is violent, call the police. That's the natural consequence of violence in the rest of the world, it should also be the natural consequence in your home.
  12. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    My guess (sad as it is) is that a lot more is going on than ODD/ADHD--possibly a mood disorder or bipolar, in which case stimulants would make her even worse. She could also be involved in drug use at her age. Everything you may have been able to do to help her at a younger age becomes moot by her age and she has to get the help herself. And if she is so sick she doesn't think she needs help, and refuses to see it, it's out of your hands. I agree she would have done well with a neuropsychologist evaluation. I still think it would be great, if she'd go. I would take a leap and say all difficult child's say "I hate you." I think they really mean "I hate me." I guess at this point, the only thing you can do is find somewhere else for her to stay until she is eighteen and hope she decides to get mental health services (neuropsychologist or Psychiatrist with an MD) so that she can be re-evaluated and maybe put on medications that help her because these obviously aren't. My layman's guess is they are probably making her worse. If she is also using recreational drugs or drinking, then she's not going to be able to control herself. I'm really sorry. I had a difficult teenager too.
  13. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    Thanks again for your responses. We did call the police, they came out and talked to her, and it seemed to go in one ear and out the other. When I asked her what her reasoning was, she just laughed and said she wasn't trying to poison me. I began explaining the potential health effects of this, and she rolled her eyes and announced, "Oh, here we go again! There's gonna be a fight!" Then she called my mother to come and save her from being turned into the police again, and my mother did. There was no fighting, no yelling, no nothing, just her paranoia and my mom's martyr complex.
  14. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    It sounds to me as though she and your mother deserve each other. I know it would go badly and most likely even if she shows her true colors to your mom your mom will blame you. But, at least you'd get a break. If she's anything like mine, your mother probably blames you in any case. It's not a battle worth fighting.
  15. Coookie

    Coookie Active Member

    I agree with Witz, this isn't a battle worth fighting. You need to protect yourself. :(

  16. Star*

    Star* call 911

    I'm with Witz and Cookie -

    If Momma wants the BS - give it to her in a teenage sized package - pack her crud today and sit it by the driveway.

    And on top of the boxes - I'd give her my old toothbrush.

    Get her OUT NOW - she is a dangerous person.

    You have a right to be safe in your own home.

    It's not a failure - it's survival - you are NOT living with someone who is logically thinking - it's damaged thinking - and if your martyr mom wants it - give it to her in spades - but tell them both - NO ABSOLUTELY NO do-overs - if she fails at your Moms - she can go to the salvation Army shelter.

    Then check all your windows - lock them - change all your locks IMMEDIATELY - and get some counseling to deal with all the fallout you're not just going to get rid of her - and immediately feel better - you're going to need to process this with a professional AND gain mad mom skillz to NOT take her back - not for a long time - and a lot of maturing goes on.

  17. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    Star said it well. HUGS