Uhg...Oldest difficult child thinks he is Sooooo much better than his brother!

Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by lovemysons, Feb 1, 2012.

  1. lovemysons

    lovemysons Well-Known Member

    Talked to oldest difficult child last night...He just kept goin on and on about how this is the "place" that his brother deserves to be and that brother is a fool and obviously does not want help.
    Then he went on about how brother has chosen the "evil" side (oldest difficult child has new found religious beliefs) etc.

    Okay, some of this is true...Young difficult child did take the "fastest route" to getting home rather than the Prison Rehab.
    However...Wasn't it JUST the other day that oldest difficult child was in Prison himself! And it was husband and I (along with husband's client) that persuaded the prosecutor to ask for Prison Rehab not oldest difficult child doing Anything for himself at that time.

    Then he goes on about how lazy young difficult child is, about how when they worked together (for husband) in the past 3 yrs that young difficult child not only did not work hard but would break things too.

    Oldest difficult child, who has been sober a year now, believes that young difficult child being on welfare, being lazy, etc makes oldest so much better than.

    Years ago when both the boys were in Rehab...Rehab actually told us, "You may have to let go of One in order to save the Other". Meaning, let go of oldest difficult child in order to save young difficult child.
    They saw oldest as being "a potentially very dangerous person when he grows up do to his intellect and manipulative ways". He did not work the program internally at that time but rather "used" the program to argue points with Rehab staff and peers.

    Anyway, the irony and oldest difficult child's Attitude, Just gets on my nerves.
    Young difficult child has a heart of Gold, Oldest difficult child has a heart of Pride...if you ask me.
  2. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It


    I know that wasn't a fun conversation. Maybe you should just tell Oldest to keep his opinion to himself? Your oldest is VERY skilled at manipulation and in some ways may have substituted his religion for his drug of choice rather than actually working the steps. I don't know, not having spent as much time with him as with youngest. It is VERY easy for some people to substitute religion for a drug and in my humble opinion it isn't any healthier, esp if the religion is as excluding as this one seems to be.

    Maybe future discussions with Oldest should just be about his kids?
  3. lovemysons

    lovemysons Well-Known Member

    I think you're right, Sus.
    Oldest difficult child has replaced Drug use for Religion use...If that makes sense.

    Funny, he started the conversation out telling me he had just seen a man walking on the railroad tracks. So I said, "How sad, hope he will be alright".
    Oldest difficult child says, "He needs to get a job".
    No compassion whatsoever.

    His mother in law knows I smoke. Don't remember how the conversation started, just that I smoke but she said she would "pray for me". Well maybe I WANT to smoke. Maybe I don't want her "praying" for me about this. Geez.

    Oldest difficult child's wife seems to think that husband and I must have done something wrong to end up with 2 difficult child's. That her parents were very strict with her and her sister and that the two of them did not end up in trouble in their teen years like ours did, etc.
    Nevermind the fact that she "danced" her way through college from what I understand and left her husband for my Oldest difficult child.

    Oldest and his new wife want to have nothing to do with young difficult child and his family cause they are on welfare, etc. They want nothing to do with easy child because of her sexual identity.

    They are trying to live this idealistic model life. They want their daughters (they are expecting second girl same week as young difficult child's new baby will be here in May) to attend private school in the future. They "think" that if they raise their daughters in the church (which we did by the way, roll-eyes) and are strict (controlling)...(which we WERE by the way) that they will end up with Different Results.
    Good Luck with that!

    I barely know granddaughter from Oldest difficult child, Sus. It's pretty sad but oldest difficult child's wife is as "prideful" as young difficult child. in my opinion they live in a "spirit of fear"...not pure faith. They also love "conditionally" etc.

    The whole scene just gets on my nerves!
    Thank you for the hugs Sus, you're a sweety!
  4. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    More hugs LMS. There is a very old quote that, lol, I can't remember at the moment. :) It's either "there is none more prideful than a reformed sinner" or in lieu of sinner the word "addict". I think it is the former. Like you I have compassion for those who are in need. Some people just don't. Sad.

    His arrogance has dominated his decisions for at least a decade. When he was in his difficult child days he was convinced that he could do things his way and find success. Now he is an adult who has found a new path...and again, because it is "his way", he is positive it is the superior way. The good side of this situation is that he and his wife are comfortable in their superiority because it is faith based. At least he is unlikely to end up back in prison.

    If I were you I would not reach out too often. Likely he has no concept of the pain he causes to your family spirit. If he initiates contact just go with the flow of what he wants to talk about and avoid the triggers. With adult children (even easy child's) it's often necessary to just listen and chit/chat with-o any deep emotions. You can cherish the good memories and hope for future happy shared times but at this time he just doesn't have the compassion to grasp your pain. DDD
  5. lovemysons

    lovemysons Well-Known Member

    You are SO right. He doesn't have the compassion to grasp my pain or brother's.
    I so knew you'd get it! smile...You have known my difficult child's for the past 10 yrs. Oldest difficult child is still the "same" underneath it all, huh. But yes, grateful that he is not likely to head back to prison. In fact, he just paid off one county fees fines and also enrolled in college 3 weeks ago. He is trying to be a functional adult...for that I am grateful.
    Maybe someday he will replace his pride and arrogance with a helping hand and that "compassion" he seems to lack.

    They have always been "polar opposites" haven't they?
  6. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    I can totally relate. I deal with similar ridiculousness with my adult children. The "one upmanship" andarrogance can drive a parent nuts. It sounds like your older difficult child is still compeating with his brother for whatever reason. One of our wise board member recently said something to me when my difficult child#1 excluded easy child/difficult child from her Christmas dinner invite. Board member said that difficult child#1 had her own set of problems and that those problems made it impossible for her to have compassion for her brother. When I looked at her actions from the perspective that it was a manifestation of her own MI it didn't sting so much. Maybe that approach will help you also. I also do not talk to her about easy child/difficult child much anymore. That helps too.
  7. buddy

    buddy New Member

    and more and more HUGS LMS, There really are pros and cons to that whole kind of born again life. Yes, at least he is doing things that dont put himself or society at risk. My sister went through that and we had to even worry about certain kinds of toothpaste in her mind because she had been told there were satanic messages written or some such thing. The level of judgement on others is remarkable in some of these groups. in my humble opinion it misses the whole point of most religions to have that attitude. Hopefully this is a phase... as his kids get older he will see he does not have that level of control over another person's mind. Unless the kid is in a wheelchair and can't walk, talk, hear, see or control bowels!!!....they will not have total control.

    Still think of young difficult child every day when I see your avitar.... I pray for him and hope he will serve his time as safely and contemplatively as possible.
  8. lovemysons

    lovemysons Well-Known Member

    I know right rejectedmom...Oldest still competing. I mean they're both Felons and Addicts. One is no better than the other on paper. And good advice, I think I will just try and steer the conversation in another direction in the future.

    Buddy, Buddy, Buddy!
    You are the TOTAL package. Sensitive and Strong!
    I cannot even begin to tell you how impressed I am with your love and mothering skills for Q AND at the same time your ability to stand up against a cruel system.
    I know your prayers for my young difficult child are "heard" I really feel that.

    Thanks for your hugs, care and replies.
    I love you guys, smile.
  9. Ephchap

    Ephchap Active Member

    Hugs, LMS. I have no idea how you survived it with two difficult child's. Most of here have one, and it has been a long road, many stressful years. I can't imagine. That being said, it sounds like oldest difficult child has created his own version of the past in his mind. He seems to forget what he has been through, and what he put you and your family through. How sad that he's now in a place where he feels no empathy for his younger brother.

    Again, hugs,
  10. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Yep...what is it with reformed addicts and religion? ugh. Maybe he would like to have Buck...lol. They could talk religion together.

    I would just keep the conversations you have with oldest to talk about him and his family. If he wants to get into his brothers business just suddenly have other things that need doing or simply tell him that if he cant be nice you arent going to talk to him about it.
  11. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am sorry that he has so separated himself from you and husband. DDD and the others have great advice.

    I had a friend in jr high who thought that she needed to "save" me because the church I was raised in (Catholic) wasn't "religious" enough. I was curious and starting in jr high my parents said that my religion was my business. They would give me rides to and from any church I wanted to try. So I went. in my opinion it was NOT a church but was a cult. I even went on an overnight retreat and I was fascinated. I had read about brainwashing (not sure why because I was 13 but the whole idea fascinated me then) and then got to watch people do it to kids. They used EVERY trick in a basic psychiatric text on brainwashing.

    but I got irritated with the constant, "I will pray for you." koi. Finally I just smiled and told her I would work real hard to give her every reason to need to pray for me. She didn't know quite what to do with that, lol.

    I know this is hard for you. You always wanted them to be close in a good way, and this just isn't that. This is one for God to fix, not you.
  12. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I hate that I will pray for you koi and people who think they know what God wants. I dont know anyone with a cell phone to him. Oh thats right, according to Buck, all of us with fancy cell phones just worship them instead of having cheap $10 phones and plans. We should give the extra money to the churches. LOL. Sorry...not happening. I am evil and worship my computers, cell phones and cable. He seems to be enjoying my cable now though! He cant say anything about smoking because he smokes too. He smokes icky smelling cigarettes that give me headaches too.
  13. lovemysons

    lovemysons Well-Known Member

    Hi Deb,

    I don't know how I survived the two of them either.
    But there was a price...
    My marriage suffered, my sobriety suffered, and my sanity suffered.
    Found a solution in each case but I certainly was not "perfect" in dealing with the 2 difficult child's.

    I have spoken of young difficult child's teen yrs but not so much about oldests. His expulsion from school at 15 for Terroristic Threat, His cocaine and meth use, his holding a knife to himself with police ready to shoot him if he didn't put knife down, his pulling a knife (butter knife) out on young difficult child and young difficult child calling 911 and police arresting oldest for Aggravated Assault, lol...that charge was dropped ttl.

    Yep, these things and so much more, oldest has "forgotten" about.
    husband was just telling me yesterday how hard oldest has been working lately. And all I could say is ..."Well, that must make him feel better about himself than everyone else."
    I mean, what does he want now...A Gold Star! I didn't get "credit" when I got sober for the long haul...When I worked my butt off and did what a "good mother" does and kept up with everything and anything. It was expected!
    Anyway, there is usually an alterior motive where oldest is concerned. I also think he is working so hard because he is becoming a "workaholic" (more addiction issues) and is chasing the almighty dollar. He and his wife like to live a very upper middle class lifestyle. In fact, they bought their soon to be 2 yr old daughter a 400 dollar "kitchen" for Christmas! LOL, I bought my other granddaughter a 35 dollar "kitchen" from a consignment store for Christmas. Well, that would NEVER be good enough for oldests family trust me. So we only gave oldest gift card's for christmas as nothing we would buy would likely do.

    Janet and Sus,
    I hear you...And ya there is something about religion and addiction that goes hand in hand in my opinion. Now, what I do like about AA is that they say, "Live and Let Live" and to find the G-d (or Higher Power) of your OWN understanding. It's not about a Superior G-d or shoving your beliefs onto someone else or even the G-d that you "grew up with" etc. It is a very renewed and personal thing...I love that.

    Thanks you guys for letting me vent, for the understanding, suggestions and hugs,
    Yall are the best...and I don't know what I would do without the comfort and support of my CD friends.