Went Too Far... Face to Face

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Skool Teacher, Jun 16, 2016.

  1. Skool Teacher

    Skool Teacher Member

    Hi All,

    Here with an update since my last post earlier this week. Feeling really low this morning. I went to see if my daughter was alright after the lady she is staying with called me on Tuesday wanting to meet with me and talk to me because my daughter lost her drivers license and to tell me for the umpteenth time that my daughter is sick (mentally I assume) and needs help. I wanted to see for myself if she was ok and to ask her if she was alright. I emailed and asked her to call me and she didn't so I assumed that something might be wrong.

    I didn't go alone and took a friend who is a counselor with me to maybe spark some helpful dialogue between my daughter and I. We went to my friend's house to get her away from the lady's home. Of course the blame game started with my child telling me that everything wrong with her and her life presently was my fault. I let her babble on and whine and cry and blame. I've heard this all before and nothing she said was new or surprising. This lady she stays with is all in her head telling her that I should be more support of her and saying stuff to her that is none of her business about my relationship with my daughter. My friend and I hope that maybe some real dialogue would occur on getting us on a path to healing our relationship. My friend was the mediator and kept things relatively calm until... The issue of the remaining child support came up.

    She made a statement that all she needed to be alright was "Her money." That's when I made an executive decision and I interjected and told her that the money was gone. I told her I used the rest of the remaining child support that was supposed to pay for college to pay off my vehicle. I still have the money and my vehicle is paid off but I made a decision to take this issue completely off the table forever. This money is not going to be up for debate, discussion or something that we'll have to disagree about anymore. She already wasted $16,000 on one year of college and didn't pass not ONE class--0.0 GPA! My intent was to use the rest of this remaining child support money to aid her once she got her own place, to get furniture, help her get a nice used car when she was ready and anything else she needed since she didn't want to go to college. What she doesn't realize is that money is technically not hers after she turned 18 and that she has a very generous and money savvy mom. She should be grateful but she has completely lost her mind about money that she perceives as being hers! That money was to be used to take care of her till 18, which I did!

    So long story short, she was enraged and very animated and my friend had to grab her and take her to the ground to calm her down. She told me to call 911 for paramedics and police and suddenly she calmed down cause she didn't want to possibly be locked up for 72 hours once they arrived. When they left she assaulted me verbally and continued to blame me for a variety of things and that she would have to start all over now from rock bottom because I took her money. I informed her she was already a rock bottom and that money would not help her or make her happy. She was posturing and trying to intimidate me and she kept walking towards me to the point that I prepared myself to whoop her :censored2: if I had to. I kept telling her to step back. The way she kept looking at me was with pure hate. She told me I never apologize to her about nothing. I asked her what was I supposed to apologize about... doing the best I could for her and sacrificing my life for her and dealing with her blatant disrespect of me and the rules since the 6th grade?

    She told me this was the most low down thing and worse thing that I've ever done to her. Anything she said at this point my reply was simply, 'OK.' I left shortly after this and my friend took her back to the lady's house. I told her I love her no matter how she feels about me and that I will continue to pray for her healing.

    Needless to say nothing was resolved and I feel really stupid for even trying this or trying to reach out to her again. It's been 4 months since she was 'liberated' and she is still just as lost and delusional as ever. And me going over there just to lay eyes on her and to see if she was ok was just dumb on my part. She clearly needs professional help to deal with her emotional and mental issues. She doesn't want to take ownership of her part in her liberation or anything she's done to get her to this point. She doesn't want to deal with any consequences and think anything that's done to her is too severe and wrong. I believe she has ODD, is depressed and might be bi-polar. She is very angry and it's all directed towards me.

    My husband still wants try and help her to get her away from this lady and her crazy son by helping her to get an apartment. I said he could if he wanted to but I would NOT and I will not enable her to take advantage of my help without her being fully capable of being a rational, reasonable, responsible adult. And she is clearly not there at this point and time and who knows if when that will ever happen if she doesn't get professional help. Count me out.

    After this face to face confrontation yesterday, I blocked the lady from calling and disturbing my peace, no scripts needed now. I no longer want to know what is going on with my daughter. I care and always will but I will no longer allow her or this lady to steal my joy, my peace or my sanity. I will continue to pray for my daughter and I hope that she or the lady gets her some help. I'm relying on God completely now to deal with her and help her. She has been released into his capable hands. If and when my daughter gets it together, I'll be here. I love my daughter with all my heart and I have tried. Her behaviors started in 2006 and have continued and escalated till now. I'm officially DONE and have had enough.

    Thoughts, prayers, insight, words of wisdom and encouragement welcomed.
  2. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    Yeah....NO! Child support is not to hand over to an adult child. That's NOT what it's for. Child support is what the absent parent is supposed to pay the custodial parent to support the child until the age of emancipation. If the absent parent does not pay it, then the custodial parent has to double up and pay that share to support the MINOR child as well as their own share. That's why it can be collected later, often after the child is no longer eligible for child support, because it's owed to the CUSTODIAN who spent the money taking care of the kid and NOT to the CHILD. Unless there was a court order to pay the child directly, that child support was NEVER hers!

    I'm so sorry you went through that. I think blocking the woman was the best thing you could do.
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  3. DarkwingPsyduck

    DarkwingPsyduck Active Member

    My father paid child support ONE time, and ONE time only. And that was only because he was in prison at the time, and his prison job pay was taken forcefully. So I got a 2 dollar and some change check. Told Dad I'd try not to spend it all in one place. He told me I couldn't say he never gave me nothin'..... As much as I would like to say that it is the thought that counts; I can't. He had no choice in the matter.
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2016
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Some adult children will never be willing or able to have meaningful dialogues and some of us have to just learn that if we try, it probably won't end well. Sounds like your daughter is unable totaled responsibility for herself so she likes to blame you. Unfortunately moms are difficult adult children's go to person for blame. At any time you can set a boundary abstruse to listen to abuse any more.

    If you and daughter are so called estranged, see my post called "worst kind of abuse." There is support and help for those of us with adult kids who estranged and or abuse us. Believe it or not, your daughters irrational behavior has plenty of company. I should add sadly. I'm sorry for your pain. I have never been able to heal the relationship with Gone boy as I call him. It's hard when they are irrational and will only see you to abuse you with lies.

    Glad you blocked this woman. It's her problem. You need not engage her. Very strong and smart of you. Good work!
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    Last edited: Jun 16, 2016
  5. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    Typical. This does not surprise me in the least. When our kids live in our homes they refer to "their" room. Yes, it's their room for the time we have them in our homes to raise them, but they hit that turning point. I went through this with my son. When I knew he was bringing drugs into my home I started searching "his" room. He was enraged!! How dare I go through "his" room. I told him when he made a years worth of house and utility payments.
    I don't know what it is about their mentality thinking what we have is somehow theirs.
    Child support is awarded to the parent, not the child. The money was never hers. You know this and she is delusional about the fact. She is desperate, she is lashing out. Her behavior no matter how ugly, is really quite "normal" for what she is dealing with. The drugs are messing with her ability to think clearly and the woman she is staying with is feeding into her anger towards you.
    Something you may want to do just to prove a point to her.
    Write out what it cost to raise her. If there are three of you in the home divide the cost of living by 3 and times that by how ever many years she has lived with you from the time the child support was awarded. Add in the cost of clothes, food, dental, health ins, I mean EVERYTHING. Take the total amount of child support you received and compare it to what the actual cost is. Chances are, she owes you money.
    My guess is that she will not let this go, but if you put it on paper for her to see it might make her see how ridiculous her claim on the child support is.

    Oh I've been there!! My son is 6' 4" and on numerous occasions he would stand in front of me, like 4 inches from me with his fists clenched, breathing heavily and literally seething and the look of hatred coming out of his eyes was very frightening. I always hid my fear from him and never backed down.

    You have nothing to feel stupid about. Yes, she set you up. She had an ulterior motive in wanting to get her hands on money that she thinks belongs to her. Lesson learned, painful, but useful. You now know for sure that when she reaches out to you it's not because she wants to work on mending the relationship.

    You may want to sit with this for a while and think on it but with that there are also questions.
    If, you and your husband got her into an apt. what does that look like? You pay the security deposit and 2 months rent and make it clear to her that this is it, there will be no more help.
    My point of this is you and your husband need to try and be aligned with how you are going to deal with her.
    My husband, who is my sons step dad was always more willing to keep "helping" and I was just done. It caused some stress in our marriage. It really helped to talk it through and agree to whatever.

    You should be very proud of yourself Skool. I think you are dealing with this as very best you can.

    Sending you all my positive energy and ((HUGS))
  6. Skool Teacher

    Skool Teacher Member

    Thanks Tanya. I really like the way you break down parts of my post to pinpoint what you want to say. My husband is a step dad also to my daughter and he always wants to help. And on the same note when we bump heads a lot of times it's because of her. The apartment discussion is not a point of contention between us but I'm adamant that I'm just not going to put myself on another hook to help someone that clearly doesn't want to help herself and is full of excuses and blame.

    I told him that getting her an apartment means we do all the leg work to get it, co-sign to get her in and pay rent for a designated time and then WHAT? The hope is that she would use the designated time to truly see what it's like to be on her own and truly get it together, work hard and be able to make that rent every month and make it with MINIMAL HELP. The reality is she'd probably stay, she might continue to work and when it's time for her to truly pay rent and be self sufficient, the excuses would come, the whining and blame for why she doesn't have the rent and the cycle starts again. I'm not willing to even test this with her especially after her mental break about "her money" yesterday. She's been liberated and she can have the life that she truly wants and chooses--whatever that looks like with that lady she now resides with. God bless her.

    Thank you again for your insight.
  7. Sister's Keeper

    Sister's Keeper Active Member

    I have a group friend who says the best phrase she uses is, "I'm sorry that you feel that way."

    You know everything your daughter did was just emotional blackmail. Trying to make you feel sorry for her, or trying to make you feel guilty so that your will break down and give in to her demands.

    "I'm sorry you feel that way," works so well. It acknowledges feelings without agreeing or disagreeing and feeding into the drama.

    I think also calling the interaction quits when it goes off the rails helps, too.

    I'm famous for saying, "It's time for me to go." Then walking out or hanging up or stop responding to texts.

    by the way. Good for you for blocking that woman. If she is really so concerned about your daughter needing help, she can find it for her. I'm also a little witchy with a "B" I would take a vacation with some of that money.
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  8. Childofmine

    Childofmine trying to do this thing one day at a time Staff Member

    ST, bravo! I know the encounter cost you, but I see it as closing a door...firmly...and taking something that never was on the table...off the table.

    I found that my Difficult Child would get most enraged and emotional with me about...money. That's how he saw me, as a money machine. If I said No, that door was closed, and then he had to find another door (never him actually getting straightened out and actually...hello...WORKING) and that was going to take effort.

    I heard and read over and over and over again: Stop the flow of money.

    You just stopped the idea of any kind of flow of money to her. And I 100 percent agree with you: no apartment, no help with that.

    Be done...for now. You never know what kind of change a person is capable of. I promise you, my son was so so so far down I despaired of any real change. Ever. But you know, once HE decided to change, the progress has been consistent and steady.

    I had all kinds of diagnoses figured out for him (in addition to drug addiction). I pored over all kinds of information about what in the world could be wrong with him. You name it, I thought he had it. In the end, it's been all drug addiction. He doesn't even have depression anymore, and I could have sworn that was a firm diagnosis.

    Being done is a very good thing for us. I remember the day I was done, and although I loved and cared about him so very much, I couldn't do it anymore. I was just...done. I took a long break from him, and then I was willing to start seeing and talking to him again...on my terms, with strong limits, for very small bits of time, until I could see how he was going to behave.

    In a few days, you may start feeling "bad" about being done. Let those feelings flow over you, because they are real. But ST, one thing I learned over a long time: I don't have to act on my feelings. I can feel them, cry about them, whatever I need to do...but I don't have to act. Believe me, the feelings will pass in a few days, even though they are very intense. Going through the He__ with my Difficult Child was the first time in my life I learned not to act on my feelings, and believe me, it was very strange and hard for me at first. I was always a "feelings" person.

    But today, I get it. Feelings aren't facts. They taught me that in Al-Anon and I had no idea what they were talking about for a long time, and I basically discarded the idea out of hand. But as I learned about what those three words meant, they became very important to me.

    Hang in there. We are here for you. This stuff is tough, tough, tough stuff. Warm hugs this morning.
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  9. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    This is one of my standard lines also. It keeps it simple, to the point and without getting drawn into a debate.
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  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    In my humble opinion, we can use every trick in the book for those adults who still take drugs, including the daily pot user. The only way they will get a job is if we cut the money,,,including in my opinion rental help. I've been here a long time and don't remember monetary help of any kind motivating adult kids loaded on pot or other substances who don't want to grow up. We give a little, they ask for just enough to not work. It has to in my opinion be a cut off. I'm surprised at how many parents pay for cigarettes. They don't need that sort of expense and it's not a necessity and it causes illness...

    Don't let your kids have so much power over you that you do more for them than you are comfortable with. If they are abusive...make a condition for you to answer them that they are not. You are not the money toy for them to step all over. Someone they'd never bother with if you provided no money. That's not a real relationship.

    Great job. I know it's hard, even if they are terrible to us. But we AND they learn no life lessons if we don't let them go. We can't live forever.
  11. Skool Teacher

    Skool Teacher Member

    Thank you Childofmine. I need to see this so I know I'm not crazy and what I'm feeling and realizing is real and ok. I receive what you've written with warmth and true understanding. Thank you again for your words of wisdom this morning. I really appreciate them. Blessings to you.
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  12. Skool Teacher

    Skool Teacher Member

    Amen SWOT! My daughter clearly wants to tout that she is an adult but doesn't truly want to be one! I've said to her on several occasions, "Stop playing like you're grown and BE GROWN!" She's in sink or swim or flap your wings or fall to the ground mode. What happens remains to be seen but she gets not one dime from me or anymore support financially or otherwise. Nothing but prayers at this point that God lifts the demons that are attacking her. Thank you and blessings to you.
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  13. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Anytime, Hon. You deserve a good life even if your daughter is trying to sabotage yours

  14. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I agree with everybody else. And I agree with you.

    First, I would not be surprised if the motivation of "the lady" is for the money. But not only that. There are people in this world who feed off destroying. Relationships. People. And then when the "fun" for them stops, they cut loose the other person, in this case your daughter.

    This exact thing happened with my son. In the first most difficult instance, the woman wanted to hurt me and used my son--kind of like the episode Echo writes about on SWOT's thread. Then she cut my son loose. Somehow, she was involved in his brain injury but I am not sure how. The second time it happened, the man was a "do gooder" who believed he could step in and do it right, where I had failed. Eventually, he too, cut my son loose. Now my son understands, he only really has his family.
    In our case it was his inheritance left for my son by my mother. I did everything I could to block it--but there was no legal mechanism to do so. He got the money (not a whole lot, thankfully, but thousands) and within two weeks it was gone.

    These things are bumps in the road. We just need to go over them. Our kids will learn. You are absolutely correct to hold to your boundaries and to steer a firm course. I do agree with your husband, who wants to help her get away from this woman. But it will do no good now. As long as your daughter is abusive, and betrays you, I would not help her.

    Biting the hand that feeds you is not OK. My son had to learn that. He did.
  15. Skool Teacher

    Skool Teacher Member

    Thank you Copabanana. I appreciate you sharing and your insight. It's rough but I'm managing.
  16. A dad

    A dad Active Member

    Was there ever a adult who wanted to remain a child not only with the lack of adult responsibilities but also forfeiting the rights of a adult?
    To give a example more like I will do what you want but I do not need to support myself instead of I will do what I want because I am a adult but I will not work or support myself.