Anderson Cooper ...UNGODLY discipline on now central time

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by buddy, Nov 25, 2011.

  1. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Really interesting show about discipline. People who believe not just in spanking, but serious physical pain. One girl died. They believe it must cause pain due to god

    kevin and elizabeth shotz (shots? ) they killed their 7 yr old adopted daughter based on a book written by the "pearls" a couple that wrote a book on spanking. DA blames book writers. Book writers feel they do not agree with that, they do not think spaking should ever happen out of anger...but they dont "punish" their children.

    they are gonna talk about an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) that is religious so is allowed to use spiritual spaking....

    I do no believe in spanking, but I do not condemn it and I have done it a few times, when Q scared me to death when he was little... one spank each time and to tell the truth the reason I didn't ever do it again, he just started fighting, scard, overly reactive. Really, I didn't think it as right then either. For me that is. I know some really feel strongly about this. This show is about those that twist punishment though.... this is not about discipline. This is about abuse.
     
  2. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Okay, I believe in spanking but this is idiotic! Hours long "spiritual spanking" sessions?

    I cant type what I want to say.
     
  3. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    I didn't see the TV program but is this the the cult-like group that advocates using harsh physical punishment even on small babies? I don't remember their names now but they sounded horrible! And dangerous!
     
  4. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    I do believe in spanking - first, you have to get their attention - but nothing like what those people are advocating!
     
  5. buddy

    buddy New Member


    yes, the woman who is writes the books says when her babies bit when nursing, she pulled their hair "softly" to make them stop.
     
  6. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    The people I saw were talking about smacking 2 or 3 month old babies with little switches or sticks ... and they said that after a little while they wouldn't cry at all and they considered that to be "discipline" and training! OMG! Can you just see these poor kids in a few years? Tiny little infants who are beaten until they're afraid to even cry!
     
  7. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Yeah I can see those kids in a few years. I can see them donna and I bet you saw them plenty when you worked in prison.
     
  8. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    And where are all those people in the system then, who are supposed to be stopping real abuse and court ordering parents to behavior mod contracts?
     
  9. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    What I found odd though was about the accountability issues. Zilch. They cant even take a report from former residents of the group homes. No parents were ever allowed to visit. No states were allowed to hold them accountable because they were private charitable church things. Hello? Does that mean I can do kiddie porn if I call myself a charity? Oh wait...a religious charity.
     
  10. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I think that's what Jeffs was doing but at least he finally got stopped- I hate to think how many young girls and their children are living with the effects of it though.
     
  11. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    If it's the same group that I saw, they were horribly scary, ignorant people! For one thing they were going on the assumption that babies 2 or 3 months old can intentionally and purposely misbehave ... and that by inflicting painful "discipline", they can be trained not to repeat the "misbehavior". And if they believe it's OK to do that to small infants, I can't even imagine what they might be doing to older children!
     
  12. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Oh, I remember them. Crazy. Spanking babies and all that. My stomach is doing flips just reading about it again. If I saw anyone doing this to a baby, I would become a kidnapper. Situational morality and all that.
     
  13. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    First - let me say that I'm not a fan of physical punishment as a form of discipline. I'm NOT taking that side of the argument at all.

    But, its tricky to intervene - either as an individual, or for a government-type agency (ngo or whatever).
    Some countries have nailed down their child abuse laws so tightly that many parents have given up on ALL forms of discipline, for fear of tripping over the draconian laws... and a child raised without discipline (notice, I said discipline, not punishment...) is just abused in a different way.
    The balance between greater public good and individual rights, priveleges and responsibilities... is a very fine line.

    Like so many problems, there MAY be some answers... but maybe not. If it were really simple, somebody would have done it by now (well, ok, maybe not always).
     
  14. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    There needs to be governmental oversight into these places. there is if they receive any public funding. The schools these kids go to can paddle them for any amount of hours for any reason with actual paddles. Now my school district can use the paddle too but if they used the paddle for as long as this place did they would be in trouble. The board of ed would be all over a principal who did that. Number one it would be longer than a school day. 7 hours? Leaving those types of bruises? It would be some form of assault.
     
  15. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Well, I believe in small government, but this is nuts. I saw 20/20 last night and I was horrified. First of all, who was in charge of allowing this crazy couple to adopt two little girls from another country???? Secondly, every group home that involves kids needs oversight. Sorry. If a religion favors child abuse the child abuse should override the religion. The idea that they emphasis that the switch smack MUST CAUSE PAIN made me sick.

    Honestly, I wonder about parents who can't figure out the difference between reasonable consequences and child abuse.
     
  16. flutterby

    flutterby Fly away!

    If it's the group I'm thinking of, every time authorities get close, they close up and move to another state.
     
  17. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Flutter...this one group home has been in business in this one house and location in Indiana I believe for 40 years!
     
  18. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure if we're all talking about the same people. I'm very sketchy on this but from what I understand, these people wrote some kind of a book about their disciplinary methods and their idea of how to bring up a child using severe physical punishments. They go in to great detail about how to use their methods on children of various ages, including very young infants. And what I heard on the news a while back was that one of their followers, a woman who was using the procedures they outlined in their book, actually caused the death of her child, a little girl.
     
  19. buddy

    buddy New Member

    yes donna, that was part of the show. And the girl that died was adopted and in a large family and the other kids had serious bruises all over...they are all in cps custody and the parents are in jail awaiting trial. The show also talked about other discipline issues and it covered the religious boarding schools. those kids were not let out at all so no one could know to tell. Even if there is not a board to cover them, they should still have to follow laws of assault etc. The young girl who was there 15 months or so said they held her arms and legs for a man to do an internal exam using a speculum. How can they get away with that? What does that have to do with licensing? That is rape.
     
  20. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Yikes! That's horrid!
    I'm so glad the kids have been taken away. I hope they never have to go back. Sad thing is, they're probably lonesome, because this is the only family they know. Humans can adapt to nearly anything.
    In regard to pulling the infant's hair if the baby bites when nursing--lol! That means the baby's got to have hair. What if they're bald? I don't want to know.
     
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