Ant's first week

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
Wow. Very bizarre about the phone company monopoly and the food. I've never heard of that b4.
I am sorry to hear that it takes 6 mo's to get a psychiatric appointment. Very bad. But very typical, across the country. And probably around the world. In fact, most countries don't even offer psychs for inmates.

We are very lucky ... in our area, the city has a farm where the inmates work. They raise their own food. Literally. They also go out and cut grass for the city. You can always tell it's not a private company because a half dozen inmates in bright jumpsuits walk along with-lawnmowers, and a security guard with-a rifle stands in the door of the truck. It saves the taxpayers a ton of money, and teaches the inmates a bunch of skills. In fact, most of them grew up on the streets, dropped out of school and truly had no skills b4. Occasionally one runs away, but the others usually tell on him. (And for whatever reason, it's always men.)

At any rate, Ant needs to realize that he's in jail for a reason and it is not supposed to be fun, pretty, or easy.

I'm so sorry that you are hurting. You're not supposed to hurt for him. This is how people learn. He has to do his own hurting.

{{{Hugs for you}}}
 

judi

Active Member
Janet - my heart is so heavy for you. I don't even have good words. I can only offer prayers. Please take care of yourself and baby Kaleb.
 

Sunlight

Active Member
But I'm not sorry that his vacation is not cushy and comfy. Perhaps he'll think twice... I can't pity someone that knowingly jeopardizes my family
.

this is not a vacation. I repeat that he deserves consequences, my problem is they are also starving the inmates and raping their families for phone calls. Remember, he has been in jails before and he never thought twice while blacked out drunk. it is a myth that jail helps people-and I do not expect that at all. Please don't pity my son, I havent asked anyone to, and remember he never jeopardized your family.


Ant needs to realize that he's in jail for a reason and it is not supposed to be fun, pretty, or easy.

I'm so sorry that you are hurting. You're not supposed to hurt for him. This is how people learn. He has to do his own hurting.
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he knows why he is there. he doesnt ask for fun pretty or easy, his only complaint is hunger. I challenge any parent on this board to not hurt in some way when their offspring is hungry. He has learned nothing from being in jail. I have told other parents many times to let their child feel the pain so they learn the lesson. With ant there is no learning. He doesnt seem to tie his actions into consequences.

To others who don't understand what this is about-I hope all of your children are never in jail and you never have to learn what that is like. It takes a truck load of compassion. YES my son is mentally ill and/or an addict. His DUIs could have lead to death. I UNDERSTAND!!! It is frustrating to have people think incarceration <u>without rehabilitation </u>is the answer. I have said myself he needs removed from society until he can be helped. I have said myself that he is most likely antisocial personality. even dogs deserve the crumbs that fall from the table.
 

donna723

Well-Known Member
Janet, I know how upset you must be, but try not to worry so much until you know where he'll be. Right now, even though he's in State custody, he's still in a county jail and will be abiding by their rules and regulations until he goes to the State institution. Usually they go to a state "reception center" institution first for several months before they are permanently assigned to a time-building institution. In the reception centers they are evaluated, tested, and given physical and dental exams.

There's always a difference between institutions within a state, some are better run than others, some have more programs than others, etc., but the policies and procedures used in the State prisons come from the STATE level and will be the same in all institutions. And these standards are set by Federal guidelines so they can't be too far off. Our prisons here used to be some of the worst until the Federal courts stepped in twenty years ago, and now ours are some of the best. But these Federal guidelines apply to ALL states. I'm not saying that there is not corruption in some state systems, because there is, but there are rules that they all have to comply with.

About the food - nobody is "starved". There are portion guidelines and Federal laws that state that they must be served a nutritionally adequate diet in amounts sufficient for an adult man. And NO prison would "starve" inmates to encourage them to make purchases from the commissary. Yes, there is candy, soft drinks, chips, etc. But this is also where they buy their shampoo, tooth paste, soap, stamps, writing paper, etc. Commissaries, basically, are a pain in the b*typical teen to run, very labor intensive, very difficult to manage. We are allowed to charge a very small markup over actual cost, to cover staff salaries, maintenance etc., but there is NO profit. Many times too, the prices they pay are less than what we would pay for the same item in the grocery store! And our system too charges a small fee to see a doctor. Before we did this there would be hundreds of them lining up for sick call to keep from having to go to work. It was the only solution - not ideal but they were forced to do it. But not having the money would NOT prevent them from seeing a doctor if needed. It would just be put "on the books".

And the phone systems ARE bad and they ARE expensive. Your state may possibly be getting a cut of the profits - I don't know, but it's possible. But I also know there are HUGE costs to maintain these systems. Of all the phones we have, probably half are out of commission at any given time because of vandalism. We have a guy who is here almost full time just repairing damages to the phone sets. They pull receivers off, pull phones off the walls, beat dents in to them, and steal the wiring. They are allowed to only call certain numbers to prevent them from calling victims, making threats to families, etc. All calls are recorded for security reasons and have been the tip-off many times to escape plans, drugs or weapons being brought in, etc.

And the correctional officers (they are NOT "guards") - forget everything you've seen in the movies! They are all individuals and therefore, all different. But in 21 years, I have seen very few that would ever be considered "abusive" and they don't last long at all! Anyone actually being abusive to an inmate would be fired and would find their b*typical teen in Federal Court so fast, their head would be spinning! Inmates can and do sue employees. There are written policies and if you do not deviate from the policies, you are OK. But if you go against it, you can be found personally liable, and the State can also be found liable, so they get rid of these people as fast as they can! It's not an easy environment to work in - some can do it and some can not, and they soon leave. The ones who do last develop a thick skin and become amazingly tolerant and can let it roll off of them. They do a thankless, dangerous job for very little pay. Many times their work day includes taking constant verbal abuse, threats, and sometimes even having urine or feces thrown at them, and still manage to conduct themselves professionally! For the most part, officers do not harbor bad feelings towards inmates - it would eat you up if you did. If he is decent, respectful and not a troublemaker, he should not have a problem with the officers.

I didn't mean to go on and on here and I did it again, but I'm trying to ease your worries. Ant will NOT like it in prison - he's not supposed to. That's the whole point. But if he keeps a low profile, follows the rules, and minds his own business, he should be OK. He should avoid aligning himself with any groups ("gangs"), and NEVER have any kinds of financial dealings with other inmates ("borrowing", buying on "credit", running up debts) - that's when they get into trouble. Yes, there are some very bad folks in prisons. But there are also many, many other "Ants" who just want to do their time, stay out of trouble, and be able to go home. He will find many others just like him.
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
Janet...I understand. It is hard on us too. I know when Cory was in jail they did feed them pretty lousy meals and we did put money on his account because of that. Call me a softy but I couldnt think of him being that hungry either. Its not like we are providing huge meals...just snacks.
 

Sunlight

Active Member
Donna,
Ant will go to camp hill, a processing ctr. you are seeing the otherside of the prison experience because you work there. living on the other side of the bars is different. I know from dealing with the county jails ant has been in, from talking with the social workers and staff, and wardens that there are problems.

I have seen the food they give them, in Allegheny co when you visit you can see the inmates eating below you thru the glass. it is not enough for most people. they are fed "adequate" food to sustain them. most jail fights are over food.

I have seen the price lists for the commissaries and they are exhorbitant. this is all county so I will see if state is better soon I am sure. most inmates have no money and beg it from family. lots of times the other inmates put your toothbrush in the toilet, steal your toiletries and fight for your food.

my state does get money from the phone. I have written to State Senator Arlen Specter to complaint as have countless others.

I have been on the phone with ant and heard "correctional officers" verbally harass him to rile him up. I heard it myself when he was in Butler co jail. they antagonized him, made noise to make us not be able to talk. they said "talking to mmmmmoooommmmyyy??? wah!!"

"correctional officers" beat a man in warren co jail while ant was there. it was in the newspaper. the social worker there told me they are backed up for months for doctor visits and for a long time they had no doctor on staff at all!

Ant will NOT like it in prison - he's not supposed to. That's the whole point.

If I hear this one more time I will scream. I KNOW he is not supposed to like it there. I dont expect it. I also know it is not effective for ant.

I think I will stop trying to educate people about what it is like to have a son in jail. no one seems to understand but those few who have been there done that. they too can tell the same stories I do. anyone else just simply cannot comprehend.
 

meowbunny

New Member
Janet, no comments, simply hugs. So ....

(((((JANET))))) ((((JANET)))) (((JANET)))

If you need more, let me know and I'll add them.

I hope things are better for Ant when he is finally transferred. I will say that I have heard that prisons really are better than jails. Let's hope that's true for Ant as well.
 

donna723

Well-Known Member
Janet, all I am saying is that you cannot judge state-run prisons by what goes on in the county jails. They are two completely different things - apples and oranges. Some county jails are OK, most are horrible. Not saying that the state prisons are so wonderful, but at least they are consistent, they are very closely monitored and regulated, and you have recourse if there are problems.

I completely agree with you that most county jails are abysmal! They are pretty much just human warehouses, each having their own rules, usually bad food, no programs, no jobs, nothing for them to do, cutting corners where ever they can, and bad things can and do go on there that escape detection. They are, for the most part, seperate independent entities that operate on the whims of whomever is in charge and how much money the county is willing to spend on those it has incarcerated. I <u>DO</u> think though that you are maybe getting yourself all upset prematurely by making assumptions that the conditions will be the same in the state prison as they are in some of the county jails. <u>That simply isn't true</u>.

And I also completely agree with you that prison is <u>not</u> the best place for someone like Ant whose main problem is alcoholism. But the fact remains that he will be there for the next two years. And if he stays out of trouble and takes advantage of some of the programs that will be available to him, he just might come out of it the better for the experience. Federal money pays for drug and alcohol treatment programs in the State prisons - they ALL have them. It will be there if he chooses to take advantage of it, and I pray that he does.

Please don't be angry with me. Believe me, I've been "in the system" long enough to know exactly what goes on, both from our side and from theirs. It won't be any picnic for him but it won't be as bad as what you're imagining - I promise you. I know how frightened and discouraged you must be, and Ant too. Plus Ant is now going through the experience of being forced to "dry out" after being so heavily reliant on alcohol for so long, so it must be very difficult for him. Just try to take it as it comes and wait to see how it is when he actually gets permanently assigned. Keep in touch with him, encourage him to participate in as many programs as he can and to use this time "away" to his advantage. Ant is still very young - he has his whole life ahead of him, and two years isn't "forever". Over the years I have seen many just like Ant who got out and went on to have happy, productive lives - got good jobs, started families and stayed out of trouble. It happens all the time. Sending lots and lots of hugs to you, Ant and Kaleb too.

:flower:
 

witzend

Well-Known Member
I KNOW he is not supposed to like it there. I dont expect it. I also know it is not effective for ant.

Do you have an idea of what might be effective for him? It seems like you have tried everything. I suppose that's not to say that Tony has tried everything. He will or he won't, I guess.

Hope you will find some peace.
 

Estherfromjerusalem

Well-Known Member
Dear dear Janet,

I just want to send you my love, and support, and hugs.

I am thinking of you and Ant a lot.

It comforts me a little to know that you are not alone in coping with this, and that you have boyfriend, and Kaleb, and your older son.

You have always been an amazing warrior mom, and I have always admired you.

Love, Esther
 

saving grace

New Member
Janet
My son has been in county jail, 4 times. He has never been in a prison but he has been incarcerated the same.

I KNOW what you feel. I have been there done that.

I UNDERSTAND

Grace
 

OpenWindow

Active Member
Janet,

I have had a close family member in jail and then on to prison. He was only in prison for 3 months "shock time" although we thought it was going to be 6 months. Fortunately for us, shock time worked for him and convinced him he never wanted to go back. He wasn't faced with alcoholism, though, just way too impulsive, severe ADHD.

I was terrified the whole time he was in prison that something terrible would happen but he got by. The consistent rules and schedule were perfect for him. He stayed to himself, stayed away from the gangs, and took classes to keep the boredom away. And he wrote LOTS of long letters to everyone in his family.

I'm hoping and praying that there is a treatment program Ant can and will take advantage of, and that this is the turning point in his life. He's still very young and I still have hope he will come around.

You've been a warrior mom for a long time and have been an inspiration to those of us who have to find a balance between fighting to help our children and standing back and detaching when it's necessary.

Prayers for you and Ant,

Linda
 

Chele

New Member
Ant'smom,

Wow, I really feel your pain. As I said before, I really am sorry for all this and I want to thank you for sharing with us. I am learning so much about this. I strongly feel that my son will be right behind yours with long term sentences. My son is SO impulsive and has so many addictive tendencies, we are not far behind you.
You and Ant are in my prayers. Stay strong, do something fun, that you love to do and haven't for a while.

Chele
 

Sunlight

Active Member
witzend:
only God can help ant. ant doesnt even believe in Him.

In fact ant is not even speaking to me. he used one of the very expensive calls to tell me off last night for asking girls to not send him money. I told him there is no way I will have 5 diff girls call me and tell me that ant waited for them, they are "the only one" and they are sending money orders to him....what is the address?.

even though I told every single girl not to send money and even told one girl's mom that my son is in jail/does she really want her daughter to write to a guy in jail?...

even though...these girls are still clamoring to communicate with him. I told him he can never live with me again and that made him angry also as he said he has to have a parole plan including an address.

so...for now, ant has hung up on me, I am putting no more money on the phone acct, he has three calls left to me if he chooses. he can write a letter.
 

mistmouse

New Member
Janet, I am so sorry for the frustration I hear. I do understand that you aren't frustrated because Ant is in jail, but rather that conditions are at best inhumane. I have followed your story for years, and I have never gotten the impression you were trying to excuse Ant from having consequences. I understand what you are saying about the food and phone calls. I had two nephews who were in seperate prisons, and the same thing you describe of them not getting enough food was common to both places.

I am sending hugs and understanding your way. Hugs because you need them so desperately and understanding because you need that as much. Your frustration feels so much like my frustration when I was trying to educate the school district regarding holding a 7 year old in a time out room for hours even though they knew she was claustrophobic, and they withheld food even though they knew she was hypoglycemic, but "she had not done her five minutes in the appropriate manner" even though she obviously was calm because she had been asleep for a couple of hours.

I do not know what will help Ant, but I do agree being locked up with no program for rehabilitation is not the answer. Be kind to yourself, Janet, and again, another {{{{huge hug}}}}.

mistmouse
 
But I'm not sorry that his vacation is not cushy and comfy. Perhaps he'll think twice... I can't pity someone that knowingly jeopardizes my family.


this is not a vacation. I repeat that he deserves consequences, my problem is they are also starving the inmates and raping their families for phone calls. Remember, he has been in jails before and he never thought twice while blacked out drunk. it is a myth that jail helps people-and I do not expect that at all. Please don't pity my son, I havent asked anyone to, and remember he never jeopardized your family.


Dear Janet,

I drive thru western Pennsylvania all the time so yes he very well may have been any number of the drunk drivers I've call 911 over. All of my family lives in western Pennsylvania and drive the roads more often than I do. That qualifies me to say that Ants drunk driving jeopardized my family.

To others who don't understand what this is about-I hope all of your children are never in jail and you never have to learn what that is like. It takes a truck load of compassion. YES my son is mentally ill and/or an addict. His DUIs could have lead to death. I UNDERSTAND!!! It is frustrating to have people think incarceration without rehabilitation is the answer. I have said myself he needs removed from society until he can be helped. I have said myself that he is most likely antisocial personality. even dogs deserve the crumbs that fall from the table.

Ant is not the only son to cause his mother much pain. My son spent 6 weeks locked up in Niagara County Jail in NY (he was 16) but unlike Ant, he was in there for something really stupid. He was locked up for 6 weeks for missing a hearing because he overslept. The hearing was yet another continuation for a stupid thing him and his buddies did 6 months earlier. They went joy riding on a zamboni and it damaged the skating rink floor. FYI we are still traveling back to Niagara Falls NY about every 6 weeks for these hearings.

See Janet, I know what it is like to have a son locked up. While he was there I deposited money one time so that he could get some toiletries. I visited once and heard tough guy talk and left early. Once. Phone calls, yeah they were expensive and they were collect. He was permitted to call me, collect, once a week. Why should I foot the bill for his mistakes? Same reason why I didn't post bail. I'm tired of paying for his mistakes.

Call me cold if you like I don't care. But don't imply that I don't know what its like to have a son in jail because I'm not sympathetic to the situation your son got himself into.

No one ever died of starvation in jail. Sorry if he's not getting his stuffed peppers and nice sandwiches like he likes. He gets what they serve him, he has the choice to eat it or not. Again, his choice to eat or be hungry. Surely you don't expect them to provide a banquet. I'm glad my tax dollars don't pay for steak and eggs (figuratively speaking).

Jail as I understand it is not there to help people. It is there to punish people. Granted it would be nice if they were able to rehab but again, who pays for that? I don't want to pay for someone elses mistakes.

Janet, if he doesn't learn like he hasn't so far, what do you think will teach him a lesson? You think he should be removed from society, what do you propose be done and again, who's to pay for it?

Sorry if my words are harsh but they come from someone who can empathize with you.

I do have compassion but it is not for Ant. My compassion is for you and what you are going thru. If I ever had the chance to meet you I'd love to buy you a cup of coffee or something harder and give you a shoulder to cry on. But I won't feel sorry for Ants plight nor will I feel pity.
 
I understand too! I am hoping that I am not about to face what you are going through again. When my son was in prison the only thing I had to hold on to was God. I prayed everyday and put my whole faith in Him. He carried me through again and my difficult child. Oh God how much we go through. I just hope and pray for your difficult child that this will wake him up. I know I hope it for mine too.
 
Janet,

I know your feelings are raw right now. But I believe that stressed 2 the hilt has a very good point.

Jail/prison is not the way to rehabilitate your son. I hear that that is your frustration. But, jail is not the answer to how does your son rehabilitate. It is the answer to how do we punish people who break the law. I know there is a separate issue that you have with how the prisons are run, and I have no experience (and therefore no opinion), so I will leave that alone.

But what I am trying to say is:

You break the law ~~&gt; you go to jail.

You want to rehabilitate ~~&gt; you go to a rehab to get clean.

The jail is not there to rehab anyone. It is there to punish, or if nothing else, get dangerous people off the streets. Again, I hear your angst that he is in the same place as criminals who have done much worse, and your feelings are valid on that, but I hope you are seeing the point that I am trying to make.

Ant never wanted help to get clean when he was out of jail. Do you really think he would accept the help if it were offered now that he is IN jail? You and I both know that he will not get help until and unless he wants it. Most jails have AA meetings there (I can't tell you how many of my friends had their first AA meeting in jail). It is there if he wants it. But there is really nothing anyone could do for him. No prison could MAKE him rehabilitate, even if it were offered.

You know I have a special place in my heart for Ant. As I said before, even if he gave up on God, God has not given up on him. God sometimes sends the darndest characters to do his angelwork. Let's just keep praying that Ant gets a real good one.


(((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))
 
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