Anyone else feeling like they want to do away with their child sometimes?

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by seriously, Sep 9, 2011.

  1. seriously

    seriously New Member

    difficult child 2 is, in his own irrational way, continuing to up the ante in the battle for control in our house. Yesterday's rage/harassment lasted almost 3 hours. All because we told him he couldn't eat the entire little 6 oz package of raspberries I had bought on sale as a treat for the family. He had taken them out of the frig and was going to take them to his room to eat and we said wait a minute. you don't get all of those.

    My wife told him he had to share the berries and he said no way was he doing that. Then he tried to shoulder his way past me through the doorway and I refused to let him by. After a couple tries where he started to shove me he set the berries down and began screaming at me about how this was all my fault. The entire night he focused on trying to force me to apologize to him for causing him to act this way. And eventually this broadened to trying to force me to apologize for always doing this to him and always causing him to act like this.

    After he'd been screaming at me for a good 10 minutes he started laughing and got that cunning look he gets when he thinks he has found a new way to "get" to you. He started taking food out of the frig and off the counter and throwing it in the garbage can outdoors. He took a whole box of blueberries that cost me about $5 on sale and threw them in the garbage can by opening the box and deliberately pouring them out so I could hear them bouncing around in the can.

    The second time he went outdoors to throw food away we locked him out of the house. So he spent more than 2 hours harassing us from outdoors. Banging and tapping on windows and doors, ringing the doorbell over and over (we took out the battery finally), staring through the windows at us and showing us the watermelon he took and pretending to throw it at the windows.All while smirking our laughing and continue to demand that I apologize.

    We finally put a sleeping bag outside through a door away from where he was trying to pry open the deadbolt. After that he began seriously trying to open the doors until he was able to rock one of the sliders off it's track enough to get the lock to disengage and proudly came indoors and informed us we couldn't keep him out.

    We were exhausted and unwilling to push it to physical violence so we just shrugged and told him he had to go to his room. He refused and sat around staring at us and continuing to demand that I apologize, telling us it was our vault that he was doing these things, etc.

    We ignored him and he finally went to his room.

    He finally agreed to take his medications around 11 pm, including Klonopin. At 1 am he came out and took more Klonopin. At 2 am he came out and I gave him Xanax. He told me I was to wake him at 9:20 so he could get to school for his first academic class with the same arrogance he had shown all evening. As if I have nothing better to do than be his alarm clock and chauffeur.

    Something about this time has crossed a line for me. I sat up for several hours crying and feeling desperate for it to be over. I found myself thinking about trying to kill him so we could be free of this torment.

    I feel more rational this morning. But I think that all this is only going to get worse and worse. He is out to provoke us into physically responding to his harassment or in some way doing something that he can use that to accuse us of hurting him. That way we will be the ones in trouble and he will be able to crow that we are the "bad" ones and he is just our victim.

    Rationally I know that he is just trying to get me to react. To "react" is to give control over to him.

    But how far should we go in letting him destroy our home life in his distorted pursuit of "power"?
  2. JKF

    JKF Well-Known Member

    What about calling the police? He was being destructive to your home AND your belongings! That right there is a reason for the police to be involved! Unfortunately my son has rage issues as well and I had to call the police and have him removed from our home last month. It was the hardest thing I've ever done but it forced him to get the help he needs. I felt some guilt about it for a while but I finally understand it had to be done. He has no right whatsoever to harass and scare us in our own home! He's in an out of home placement for 6 months but if things don't improve during that time we will not allow him back at all.

    (((((((((HUGS))))))))))))) to you! Hang in there and stay strong!!!
  3. Marcie Mac

    Marcie Mac Just Plain Ole Tired

    " I found myself thinking about trying to kill him so we could be free of this torment" I would put in a call to your therapist and his. If you have just gotten yourself stable again, this doesnt seem like a healthy thought process to be having.

  4. seriously

    seriously New Member

    Calling the police is pointless if he has not actually hurt someone or committed major property damage. And he always stops just short of that. He has become very good at manipulating the "system" here.

    I know where you're coming from Marcie. We have been working with "mini-wrap around" services for almost 6 months now and it is no better now than it was at the beginning. Except he has gotten more devious and cunning about his abuse most of the time. Even last weekend when he was threatening us with a small bat we knew there was no point in calling the police. By the time they got here - usually takes at least 45 minutes - he would be "calm" and they might take the bat and that would be that. I went in his room and took it when he went to school on Tuesday since he had refused to give it to us voluntarily. That resulted in a rage all Tuesday night.

    I have calls into my therapist and our wrap-around counselor. But I don't really see my reaction as irrational. I think it is much like people who have lived with domestic violence for a long time except they usually have a way out, painful and difficult as it might be. The thing that is getting to me is that there is really no way out and I have lost faith that anything is going to change. There was something about his being willing to throw food out that crossed some kind of line for me.

    Anyway, I won't do anything about my thoughts. They're just thoughts and I have a lot of intrusive thoughts that are part of my illness and I have learned to ignore. This is just one of them.

    I realize that he could be doing much more objectively dangerous and damaging things. He is mostly doing petty and annoying things at this point. I need to focus on the current reality and stop living in a future where he has progressed to that level but we have no choice but to endure it until he turns 18 because there are no other long term options. It's hard since we have walked this road before with difficult child 1 and it did not turn out well.
  5. keista

    keista New Member

    I know the feeling. I had the same feelings and thoughts about husband for the whole year before he finally left. And as long as you don't act on it, it isn't irrational, but it's also not healthy. I do hope you take care of yourself in that respect.
  6. ready2run

    ready2run New Member

    if he's really bugging you that much and the good moments are all but gone you could always call cps and ask them to find him a foster home to go to. while i have never thought of 'doing away' with my children i have often thought of calling someone to come get them and take them away or with difficult child, finding his biomom and telling her to come get him and take him to live with her in her crackhouse so she can see the results of her drug use.
  7. seriously

    seriously New Member

    I don't believe we could get CPS to take him or anyone else for that matter. The system here is overwhelmed and the resources non-existent. I don't really want him dead - I just want all of us to be able to get through the day without such drama and trauma. I am worn out from it and from the way it takes center stage in our life no matter what else is going on.

    II meditated for a while and feel more at peace. I don't think I will have this come up again. Some sort of weird pity party I guess.

    Thanks for the replies. It helps to hear other people's perspectives.
  8. Jody

    Jody Active Member


    I feel for you I really do!!! I have had some pretty awful thoughts about hurting myself, sometimes my difficult child. When that started and I woke up every morning mad that I woke up, then it was time for foster care. She went in to fostercare a little over a year ago and I sometimes find it hard to even say out loud, but life is wonderful without all of the insane, abuse and drama that she created. I was having a nervous breakdown and had become very physically ill also. I had to chose myself for awhile so that I could be healthy enough to raise a difficult child. I am not 100% sure that I can now, but I am much much closer. What I worry about is that my quality of life is going to change for the worse again. I went to court yesterday and the court and DCFS agreed that she was not willing to do the work to get home. Everyone else has done their job and has done the work, but the one who should want to come home is doing the work. Raising a difficult child can suck the life right out of you and your family. I just didn't know who I was anymore. The guilt from having those feelings and being torn because you love them and then wondering if you really do, more guilt. I have called the police many times, in fact we don't go anywhere and see an officer that hasn't been at my house. They all ask how she's doing, she makes quite an impression when she's cursing and carrying on. I used to be embarrassed but I am not any longer. She comes home on weekends and that's stressful sometimes, sometimes it's good. During out time apart I coudl worry about me and my other daughter, everything wasn't about difficult child, as it had been. If they break your property, or have become abusive, physically or out of control, call the police. We have a point system here in Illinois. Everytime the police come they get points depending on what they have done, after so many points it's off to juvenile. I hope you can get some rest and relaxation. It sounds like an evening I have gone thru myself and I know it's not easy and so exhausting. Know that it will get better, if not before 18 than after 18. Many hugs!!!!
  9. aeroeng

    aeroeng Mom of Three

    Once my husband said that he was ready to beat difficult child to a pulp so that CPS would take difficult child away, put husband in jail and the rest of the family could live in peace. Like you it was pretty much only a thought, husband has never been violent. He is the one that keeps me calm. But the fact that husband would consider jail a better place to live then our home with difficult child really scared me. We got through it, and difficult child is now doing much better. He is still selfish and I could see him claiming the entire box of berries. But he no longer damages the house or tries to "punish" us anymore.

    You need to develop some strategies to protect yourself. We packed up anything we cared about and put them away. We never replaced anything broken and never fixed the holes in the walls and that had a huge effect on difficult child as he became embarrassed when friends saw them. We also stopped buying the special treats. difficult child was his worst between late 14s and early 15s. Sometimes we (husband and I) would just leave the house. (The other kids were else where too). When difficult child did not have an audience he would stop raging. I once left him alone (raging) in the house at 10:00 pm and went to a movie. I was terrified for the house, terrified for difficult child, and felt all the frustration and anger you felt when you could heard the berries hit the can. The next movie to start was "Mall Cop". A perfectly mindless comedy that help me get my emotions back in order. When I got back home it was clear that as soon as I left he had stopped his raging.

    When he rages try just walking away (everyone), if he damages things then you can call the cops. Go to a coffee shop and read a paper for a couple hours. Or something to get yourself back together.
  10. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    So sorry you are going through this. It must feel heartbreaking and soul-destroying when you are in the midst of it. From the outside it is very hard to understand what your son "gets out of" creating such suffering for himself and others, but of course he is so young and not capable of real reflection or self-insight. I don't have any real words of wisdom to offer you - wish I did - other than to say that I understand that what you feel like doing is of course not at all the same thing as what you will actually do. I too have felt like doing real harm to my son in the heat of the moment. It's just a feeling, and not to be shied away from.
  11. Methuselah

    Methuselah New Member

    Hi Seriously. I'm sorry your family is going through this. I understand how you feel. I have thoughts about difficult child 1 I thought I would never have about anyone, let alone my own child. So along with the stress and exhaustion is guilt. When difficult child 1 was 14, she informed us she was leaving at 18. I told her to remember that 18 is a magic number for everyone involved, because it is the first day of choice: she can choose to leave; we can choose to have her stay. On my phone, I have an app with the count down. When I am feeling seeing no end in sight, I open the app. It shames me to do that, but it is the only way I can through this mess.

    I wish I had more advice, but know you are not alone. We are few and far between, but we are out here.
  12. Crystal72

    Crystal72 New Member

    I am sorry that you had to go through that. I am sure each and everyone of us have special needs kid will and had came to a point of feeling overwhelmed and hopeless. Rather staying in jail for the sense of peace is not the extreme. I had, as a matter of fact had wanted and rather die so I can get some peace. You know, I tried and it's not going anywhere, I can't abandon them so if I die,let say accidentally, I am free...

    Yes it's a very unhealthy way to live but people like us living constantly with such rages can be worst than living in hell

    Today,we have an episode. 11 years old asperger has constantly challenging his father,who is the weaker system at home. The father is already at the brink of not wanting to come home,eg staying longer at work...

    Came home from school, picking fights with everyone for out of no reason. Sitting on the hood of the brand new car. When told to get down, he stormed off the house despite our warning that he is not allowed to. We couldn't find him so we called the cops. Who found him half hour later.

    I called the psychiatrist wanting to keep him informed that the child ran away again, he in turn asked me : so what do you want us to help you.? Am I wrong to inform his psychiatrist????
  13. MuM_of_OCD_kiddo

    MuM_of_OCD_kiddo New Member

    Hi Seriously,

    I am really sorry that you are having such a hard time with your difficult child. I know you feel that calling the police will be useless - but I think you should consider doing so anyways - this will establish a papertrail that can be tracked back and can be - when [not if] the proverbial brown stuff hits the fan - be very helpful in documenting that he has been a problem all along. You might also want to video tape him or voice record him to help convince the cops, dfcs or whatever they are called in your state that he is escalating. This may also be helpful evidence with his doctors.

    I really think you cannot allow him to continue on this way - he is taunting you, testing you and escalating in the ways of provoking you. I would not be surprised at all if physical attacks against your pets if you have any, the wife, the younger sib, or even you will be next - it looks like he is trying to work his nerve up to it. I would really like to suggest speaking both to his psychiatrist and his therapist about this; perhaps it is time for new medications, perhaps for another approach in therapy or counseling - but you can't go on doing nothing or going along with it, or progressively worse than this will happening.

    And yes - I've been there all the way - the cunning, hateful look; the speculation in his eyes; the teeming madness just daring to be unleashed. I have called the cops. I have stood nose to nose to him. I made him back down - step by step. He has spend nights on the frontporch. He has slept in garden chairs. He has lived/slept in my old spare minivan for days at a time. He had a lot of time to think about where he was going with this because I took and either threw away or packed away everything he loved, liked and wanted. During his worst time frame he lived of PB Jelly Sandwiches and cold ramen soup and apples right from the tree. He got cold, hungry, bored but he survived, had a reality check and decided he would try to become better. I made new houserules, learned how to detach, and also how to nip little transgressions and those little feelers to see how the wind is blowing right into the bud when they appeared. I went from courting a nervous breakdown to "tough broad" and learned to be distant, give him the "evil" eye, and to be "uninterested" in his little shenanigans, all in the name of detachment.

    Fast forward 2 years - there was a time when I could not wait for him to turn 18 so I could turn him out. Well he is 18 and he truly has made a miraculous change for the better. While he may never be all the way "normal", he is as well functioning as most straight folks, and continues to improve, learn and keep himself in check. If I hadn't made some changes in myself in how I respond to him, and taken charge of our home and life again - I think we both would have been dead or in jail by now. Either he would have killed me sooner or later, or I would have lost it during one of the attacks and taken him out in self defense. I'm glad I hung in there because today I not only love my son, I also like him again - there was a time I for sure did not like him the teeniest little bit, I also wasn't so sure that I still loved him. Today we hug again, I get and give kisses, we talk a lot, and when we disagree - it is done in a reasonable + mature way [most of the time anyways, LOL - there is still the occasional door slamming and yelling or pouting - but good grief - it's a piece of cake nowadays!]

    I realize that your son may have different problems than mine that may not resolve at all [mine had the worst case of pure thought Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) added with a nice dose of ODD] or need a different approach. But for the safety, sanity and wellbeing of everybody else in the house - do step outside and get help, please! Not only for him, but for yourself and the family too. Like you said in your post - it is a form of abuse he puts on you - and with time you get overwhelmed by it and it seems there can be no way out. There are ways - please don't give up! From wilderness camps, to job corps, to youth challenge and then all the Residential Treatment Center (RTC)'s, clinics etc. - the others here will have more info about these. Do not allow him to terrorize the family any longer - he will not learn how to respect you with his current mindset and a change of venue might be helpful for him to get a different perspective.

    Wishing for the best for you and your wife! Hugs, MuM
  14. Crystal72

    Crystal72 New Member

    I really think you cannot allow him to continue on this way - he is taunting you, testing you and escalating in the ways of provoking you. I would not be surprised at all if physical attacks against your pets if you have any, the wife, the younger sib, or even you will be next - it looks like he is trying to work his nerve up to it. I would really like to suggest speaking both to his psychiatrist and his therapist about this; perhaps it is time for new medications, perhaps for another approach in therapy or counseling - but you can't go on doing nothing or going along with it, or progressively worse than this will happening.


    These sounded familiar. My 11 years old abused our dog, constantly challenging the father, physically attacked his siblings and tried a few issues of charging me but I always stare him in the eyes to let him know I m in charge.
    I always feel the psychiatrist not listening to me cos he always say it's my depression that make me only see the negative.
  15. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I have NOT read all the responses. So pardon me if I repeat or missed something.

    in my opinion it is a pretty natural response at some point. You still should speak with a therapist, but you MUST MUST MUST recognize that you ARE a victim of domestic violence. This is NOT like what DV victims go through - it IS what DV victims go through because YOU ARE A VICTIM OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE PERPETRATED BY YOUR CHILD.

    Yes, sounds absurd to many to think you could be abused by your child. It is happening all across the country and will likely take years more before it is recognized for the problem it is. Until that time, get yourself to the DV center and insist they help you. Four years ago when I insisted that Wiz leave our home because he was determined to seriously hurt or kill one of us (it was very clear to the kids and I that someone was going to end up dead or close to it if a huge change wasn't made - husband wasn't home enough to see it so he didn't grasp it at that time), I went to our DV center and got some real help.

    Be aware that if you call the cops and he is locked otu of the house YOU may be cited and investigated for abuse. Most states will not let a parent lock a child out of the home. Do NOT let anyone tell difficult child this!!!!!!!

    You may consider foster care for him - you actually CAN relinquish your rights to the state, though it is not easy and you will pay child support. I know I had to think long and hard about what kind of future we would have if Wiz stayed in our home. The ONLY future I could see was one of us dead and then either me wanting to die because I killed my child to protect my other children or Wiz wanting to die because he killed me and his siblings. I was NOT willing to let it come to that, and we came very scarily close to it.

    the DV center will help you for free. They won't be able to do much with difficult child unless he wants it, but they CAN offer you ways to cope, therapy, etc....

    You also may want to consider that you have EVERY right to take EVERYTHING out of his room and sell it to pay for things he damages. Reality is that minors cannot enter contracts and ownership of ANYTHING is a contract. So you, the ADULT, owns EVERYTHING - no matter if difficult child bought it with money he earned or got as a gift or if you gave it to him. You are legally required to give him a mattress on the floor, sheets, blanket, a pillow, seven outfits (approximately), one pair of shoes, a lamp or light in the room to do schoolwork by, and food. NOT food or clothes or things he LIKES, clothes that will cover his body and food that will keep him alive. PERIOD.

    So if he wants to up the ante, go strip his room. Total up how much you spent on food that he wasted and go pawn his phone, ipod, tv, whatever. If he wants them back? he can figure out how to get the $$ and get the pawn shop to let him buy them back. He damages a door or wall? You press charges for property damage/vandalism because he is not legally allowed to damage your property deliberately. He so much as pushes past you to get somewhere? Call the cops and press assault and/or domestic violence charges.

    It will NOT get him mental health treatment - the courts I mean - but it WILL get a paper trail and show him that the real world thinks he is a punk and won't put up with his koi. The DV center will do a LOT to help you cope with all of this. Domestic violence is violence between people who live together - it is NOT NOT NOT limited to adult on adult and/or adult on child violence - child on adult violence counts too and is ILLEGAL. Cops won't do much about him raging unless he had hurt you or the property. Then you can make it not their choice. DV will help even if the cops won't.

    I am sorry you have to deal with this. Even if the local DV place has not dealt with child on parent abuse, they still can help you. I know I was the first child on parent abuse victim at our DV center and they have seen a LOT of it since then.

    PLEASE get help before this turns to someone being maimed or killed.
  16. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Want to add that after a lot of time and therapy, I have the son I knew before the problems appeared back. He is a great young man, and has turned things around completely. Where once he would have spent his energy trying to break every rule that ever existed, now he uses that creativity to find things that are fun/funny and no one would ever think to tell him not to do. Things like the one in my watercooler thread about that boy of mine.

    I was completely serious when I said that if he had stayed in our home another few weeks then one of us would be dead or close to it. Your son is working up his nerve and confidence to confront you physically. Not jsut with taunting or forcing doors open - to actually hurting you. If you find someplace like Boys Town or whatever, it may be what is needed for the rest of you to survive him.

    Please don't let this continue to the point where things cannot be fixed. My son still wrestles with guilt over the many times he attacked his sister or I, and about the damage to my hand that happened during one of his rages and will be this way for the rest of my life. I have NO hard feelings against Wiz, I love him and I KNOW, deep in my heart, that there was a lot involved in his rages that he could not help. But HE has a far harder time forgiving himself than we have with forgiving him. I hope and pray that you and your son never get to the point that we were at, but I honestly think he is getting VERY close to it.
  17. MuM_of_OCD_kiddo

    MuM_of_OCD_kiddo New Member

    Crystal - maybe it's time for a new psychiatrist???

    If I hate something it is when I am being patronized by a professional [regardless of the profession], like I am not all the way grownup and live with this stuff every day or know what I am talking about? Sometimes I wonder if some of them truly understand what we are dealing with when we have difficult children in our home. And being depressed??? I bet most parents of difficult children are depressed - what else [other than maybe oblivious] can you be when you have to deal with these issues? And if it is not the difficult child itself - then it's the teachers, aids, para's, case workers, professionals and the rest of the world that looks at us as if something is wrong with us for producing or creating difficult children.

    'nough of that - the next time you get disparaging remarks, send difficult child out of the room, put your foot down, make eye contact and let him/her have a bit of your mind. And if s/he still thinks you are depressed, or unstable or whatever - I suggest you find a new one. I would also seperate your issues from your difficult children issues if you also see a therapist [go for different ones for both of you!].

    I think it is important that you stand firm with your difficult child now - this is about the last chance to establish respect before puberty hits - and those are a tough 3-4 years you are a looking at, and it doesn't matter if difficult child is male or female - each set has their own sex related growing pains to deal with. You'll definitely have a headstart if they have a healthy respect for you starting out with, not to say that you will not get challenged, buttons pushed, tested and gone on your everlasting last nerve, LOL. Hugs and hang in there, MuM

    PS.: In rereading and checking for typos - a thought just came to mind. During the last 2 or so years, my son has always found it extremely interesting when I have "a cow", LOL. I am a pretty laid back and mellow person, but only so far - especially if it is for services I am paying for [single parent here and my business is definitely economy challenged, to be polite]. I'm not sure if he loves it when someone else is at the other end of me sharing my opinions and giving them a bit of my mind, or if he is taking notes for future deportment, LOL. But I did notice - while he was going through his slow changes to the better, whenever he has seen or heard me or read something I wrote in this regard, the respect level for me would rise. To me = retroactively mulling this over, as I never thought about this until just now - it seems the more he sees me in control and not taking any s*** from others [and I am not talking about yelling, hollering or loosing it - but polite, firm and direct opposition and insisting that mistakes are corrected or that the services I pay for are done to a satisfying level] the less ornery he got and the less he felt the need to push my buttons. Correspondingly - when he disagrees with something - he has become quieter and less aggressive when making his point - but calmly insisting on it instead of having a temper tantrum. He has also learned not to do impulse gut reactions, but to walk away and think about it and then come back later to discuss it or to plead his case. Maybe he picked something up by example after all, but then again he is older and more mature than your younger children... I gotta think about this some more.
  18. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Just read where you thought you could not get CPS to take him. You CAN. You show up, tell them that he cannot lvie with you, you need a social worker and you tell the SW that he cannot live in your home because it is not safe. I know you see his actions as more petty and annoying, but he is working up to much bigger things. Part of the deal with CPS is just not hearing when they tell you they cannot take him. Keep saying he can't live with you so waht are they going to do?

    They may threaten to take your other child also, but they won't. They don't want any more kids than they have to have, so when push comes to shove they will not take easy child.
  19. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Seriously, I have been in somewhat your shoes at times. Cory wasnt physically violent as a teen but boy could he be extremely verbally menacing and aggressive. I have had to have him placed outside the home many times over the years. I can see him doing the berries thing or banging on windows if we locked him out.

    There have been lots of times that I thought about a suicide/murder situation. I sometimes thought that was all I had to hold on to to keep me going on I think. Maybe it was a sort of dark fantasy that keeps you from actually committing the actual act...I dont know. I do know that I wouldnt live through the ages from 14-17 again for 10 million dollars.

    Keep strong. I know having BiPolar (BP) and dealing with a kid with issues his really hard. Hugs.
  20. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    Pls know that you are not at all alone....your difficult child sounds exactly like Matt at that age, and your thinking sound like Janet said it does get better......but as Susie said sometimes it does take removing the child from the home for that to happen. Have you looked into the possibilities of an Residential Treatment Center (RTC)? Does he need phosph? Is the start of school over stressing him?

    I am sending giant hugs and much strength your way.