At my wits end with an out of control teen

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by hpsmlefey, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. hpsmlefey

    hpsmlefey New Member

    After reading a lot of the posts, I decided this forum would be a great place for me to get some advice from other parents who seem to be going through the same issues that I have been going through with my daughter.

    Since this is my first post, let me give you a little background on us. We live in Southern Indiana. I homeschool both of children (for 3 years) because it was my only option to "save" my children. My son has been diagnosis with ODD and ADHD. My daughter refuses to see any type of psychiatrist or psychologist. I, myself, was diagnosis with Bi-Polar Disorder II, Borderline Personality Disorder, Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD), ADD and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) about 10 years ago. The only medication I take is xanax for the anxiety. I went through 5 years of very intense therapy to learn how to manage the other disorders without medication because I have a difficulty taking all of the medications approved for Bi-Polar Disorder due to bad kidneys.

    I decided to homeschool my children 3 years ago when my daughter started hanging out with the wrong people at school, she is a follower and will do whatever her friends tell her to do. I could not keep her away from these people while she was at school so I had no choice but to homeschool her when she started running away from home, verbally abusing her brother, and refusing to do any school work. My son is homeschooled because when he was preparing for middle school, the school told me that he would be placed in Special Education because the teachers had already heard about him being so high strung and they didn't want to deal with him. He was a straight A student and even his therapist didn't think he needed Special Education. So I decided to homeschool him. He is now 2 years ahead of his peers. My daughter is making no progress at all because she refuses to do the work.

    The main reason I joined this forum is for my daughter. She has recently started cutting herself, she is very defiant, a compulsive liar, very manipulative, and very verbally abusive to those who do not let her have what she wants when she wants it. I have heard from so many people in this area that it is just a phase and she will grow out of it, all teen girls go through it, etc. This has all be going on for about 4 years now. And as time goes on, it is getting worse and worse. She has been caught sneaking out at night, drinking, and we suspect drug use. She is very sexually active and has stated numerous times that she wants to get pregnant.

    The police do nothing here when she runs away, unless she has been gone more than 24 hours. They do nothing about the verbal abuse and threats for violence saying she must actually cause physical harm to someone before they can do anything. She refuses to see a doctor stating there is nothing wrong with how she acts. She has no remorse for how she treats people. My son hates her with a passion and cannot stand to be in the same room with her.

    We do not have insurance (the company my husband works for has insurance but it would cost us $400 a week for the family and we cannot afford that and he makes too much money for us to get any type of state assistance). I am at a complete loss as to how to deal with her. She tells all of her friends that I abuse her, that I hate her, and that she wants to turn me in for abuse so that her and my son will be taken away from me. She has also told her friends that she would be willing to beat herself up so she can turn me in for abuse because she knows without any marks no one here is likely to listen to her. She will not say these things to me, only to her friends. I have seen messages that she has sent through her facebook account (everytime she gets a chance to get on a computer she has to make a new facebook account because I keep deleting them when she willingly gives me the passwords) where she tells her friends all of these things. Her friends know she is lying so they just let her ramble.

    I am terrified that she will one day follow through and actually hurt herself and then try to pin it on me. She is destroying her brother, I am at my wits end, and my poor husband feels helpless. I just don't know what to do with her to help her. All I want is for her to be a healthy, happy and productive teenager. If she continues on this path, she will never amount to anything in life. Consequences for her actions do not phase her in the least little bit. To her, it is just our way of being mean to her because we hate her. To her, we don't let her do what she wants, when she wants because we hate her. And she honestly, sees nothing wrong with what she does.

    Sorry to have written a novel, but I felt it was necessary to clue you in on all aspects of what we are dealing with so that maybe, just maybe, someone would have some advice or an idea of something we haven't tried yet. Thank you in advance to everyone who takes the time to at least read this.

    We are in desperate need of some help.
  2. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Hello and welcome!

    I'm sorry, but cutting and self-harm is NOT "just a phase" that she will grow out of.

    I see that you yourself have been diagnosis with Borderline Personality Disorder. Your daughter's behaviors sound as if she could be on that same path.

    Do you get any therapy or medications for your Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) ? Is there any way you could convince your daughter to see your therapist? Maybe even trick her by telling her that the therapist really wants to hear how you (Mom) are mis-treating her ?
  3. buddy

    buddy New Member

    HI there! You have found a place full of people who do understand. I just finished a day of verbal abuse from my son and his tantrums but for different reasons, but it is exhausting. One thing that did strike me, maybe dont delete the facebook accounts. print out the pages so that you have the evidence that she is saying those things??? Just a thought. My son has an account and I am the one that controls the password. Would she allow you to do that? All my nieces and nephews can have FB but they must "friend" all of their aunts and cousins and if they block us or we dont see their posts, then they lose their accounts. I get that she sneaks new accounts but maybe if she has one will she not do that (probably still would but just asking).

    Do you check twitter and other sites too?? She may be using those as well.

    My son went through a time when he would actually tell people I hit him. (I didn't) but luckily no one believed him. they saw him hitting me so....

    Just yesterday he said he is going to bite himself and say I did it. LOL, his teeth are perfect and it would be pretty obvious it was NOT me. I said, well give me your hand and I can really do it for you... (I was smiling because for him, sometimes it helps to turn things into a joke...I wish it always worked but sometimes I get lucky) so he laughed then. UGGG, it just is wearing.
  4. hpsmlefey

    hpsmlefey New Member

    I agree that she sounds like she has borderline personality disorder. I am no longer in therapy because of the lack of insurance. I have been coping very well considering. I have tried telling her that if she wants me put away so bad then she could tell a therapist how badly I abuse her and they would have to have me locked up. She still refuses to go.
  5. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    I'm sorry...I wish I had more answers for you.

    For now - know that you are not alone.

  6. hpsmlefey

    hpsmlefey New Member

    We have tried letting her have facebook, but then we she is told she cannot get on at the exact moment she wants to or if we tell her to get off then she gets mad. Also, she deletes everything so there is no evidence. We got lucky this last time because she didn't delete anything because she thought I didn't know she had the account, and I had someone forward all of the messages to me so I have them on my account. So that is a start. I just wish I had it in writing that she said she was going to hurt herself then turn me in for abuse. Because then I would have nothing to worry about. It is so frustrating because I love her so much and I want her to be happy and it seems the only time she is happy is when she is away from me because then she doesn't have to abide by my rules.
  7. buddy

    buddy New Member

    I know, they really just can't see past their impulse to do those things sometimes. Sorry, it hurts when people you love so fiercely is treating you poorly. There must be witnesses to the comments she made right? That should be good. Also if you keep a journal so that day after day you are writing what she says to keep track of these things, it will help give credibility to your statements if it ever did get reported.
    Have you told her doctors or therapists in front of her that she says those things? It would be another way to document it. My son's false abuse statements are documented in county records and in the forms that the behavioral company we have hired uses. He is unable to be as sneaky because of his cognitive issues so I know it is easier in some ways for me to prove but it is still stressful because it would only take one overzealous teacher or social worker etc. to derail our home life and his progress.
  8. hpsmlefey

    hpsmlefey New Member

    It is very frustrating, as we all know!!!

    We have been without insurance for quite some time, so when the kids get sick we just take them into the er. Private therapy here in our area is insanely expensive (about $200 an hour) so we couldn't afford therapy even if she did agree to it.

    I have contemplated taking her to the er and telling them what she is doing and see if they will admit her to the psychiatric ward for a few days just to see if they can figure something out. I honestly think if we could get a diagnosis of a mental disorder it would be so much easier to deal with because then we would know WHY she is acting this way. The biggest problem we have is so good at convincing people that she is a victim. I seriously do not know what to do or where to turn. I cannot get a job outside of the home because I cannot trust her to be at home for one minute without an adult present and with my husbands hours we never know when he will be home or have to leave to go into work so getting insurance is almost impossible at this point which unfortunately greatly reduces our options.

    I just don't know what to do, what I can do, where to turn. But I do know that I have to figure something out before she destroys her brother completely and before she does something that hurts herself so badly it cannot be repaired or worse. I am usually a very optimistic person, however, I am not feeling so optimistic these days!
  9. buddy

    buddy New Member

    I understand no insurance... I have had none for a long time now. but my son is fully covered because he is adopted and disabled and so he has straight MA with no copays. In our state kids can get insurance (much cheaper than an ER visit) even if the parents can't thru the state. Is that an option where you live? Do you have any free clinics. I go to a private clinic that is connected to a hospital and will accept payments as low as 25 dollars a month for life if that is what it takes to get medical care. I had to call for years to find that kind of program. I have a salary so dont qualify for any assistance at all for anything. I get stuck in the middle, not low enough for aid, not high enough to pay for insurance.

    I'm sorry you dont have access to help for her. Very tough situation.
  10. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    What is she doing, in particular, that is so destructive to her brother?

    Your situation is so complex, so don't even think about going down this road without consulting the rest of your team, but... "sometimes"... CPS can actually be on YOUR side. Especially if YOU are engaging their services to try to find help for ONE of your children in order to PROTECT the other one... if you get my drift? Depends on the nature of CPS in your area, too...
  11. hpsmlefey

    hpsmlefey New Member

    She isn't physically abusive to him, but she will tell him she hates him, she wants him to die, she wish he had never been born, screams and yells at him when he doesn't do something she wants him to do, destroys his things, tells people lies about him (he's gay (not that I would care because I love him anyway), that he wets the bed, which he hasn't done since he was 4, and too many other things to sit here and list. She is horrible to him, but then she whines and cries because he hates her and she doesn't understand why.

    CPS here does not want to get involved unless the state gets involved. Indiana is useless when it comes to raising troubled children. I have called countless therapy offices and all of them require check stubs for their sliding fee, and that's fine, but hubby makes too much money for the sliding fee. They don't offer any type of assistance for this kind of stuff. But at least I have made contact, whether they document the contact, that I do not know. I have all of the latest stuff from her facebook, including where she has apparently convinced my ex-husband that I am a horrible mother, which he, up until now, always said how wonderful of a mother I am to them. He has told her that when she turns 16 he will take her to the courthouse to get emancipated, which isn't even allowed in this state. I have tried to get a lawyer to stop him from having contact with her, but I have no actual proof of contact between them, only between my daughter and my exSIL.

    I cannot tell you how helpful it is to me just to have a place to discuss all of this with people who understand first hand what I am going through. That takes A LOT of weight off of me. I have always known that I wasn't the only one with these kinds of issues, but it is nice to finally have people to talk to about it all.

    Thank you to all of you that lend your ideas. Hopefully there will be an AHA moment soon lol
  12. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Sending you welcoming hugs. Yikes! No wonder you are having a problem staying upbeat. I have rasied a bunch of teens and almost all were challenging in one way or another. on the other hand, I have not dealt with the issues you face so my post is not going to contain any expert advice. Likely, lol, I'll just ramble thru the thoughts that have come to mind. If nothing else it will clarify my understanding of your situation.

    As I understand it:
    Your daughter has not physically attempted to harm anyone.
    Your daughter is determined to do what she wants to do when she wants to do it.
    Your daughter likely has mental health issues but will not go to the Dr., and would not take medications if given.
    Your daughter is a chronic liar and attention seeker.
    Your daughter enjoys making life miserable for you and for her brother.
    Your daugher is refusing to do schoolwork.

    In addition, as I understand her:
    Your daughter is running away, doing her own thing and you fear she is using substances and perhaps is make poor sexual choices.
    Her behaviors are not perceived as severe enough for outside interventions by authorities.
    Addionally she has a loose canon bioDad who encourages her defiance.

    If the above recap is accurate then obviously there is no quick fix. The only advice I can give you is to keep a daily record of each and every incident, threat, outburst on a daily basis. It sounds tedius but just make short entries as the day goes along. Remember to include peaceful times no matter how infrequent. There are a number of reasons for you to do this.
    You want to document her choices. You want to protect yourself and other family members from retaliation. You "may" be surprised to see that there is a pattern of behavior that indicates she is not combative or defiant 100% of the time and that certain segments of the day or evening fall into typical teen actions. You "might" see that she leaves her brother alone during X time of day and that Y time is a good time to plan activities with your son that keeps him out of her way.

    The daily record is not going to solve the problems...sad to say. on the other hand "sometimes" parents of challenging kids, been there done that, get so absorbed by the chaos that they don't see any of the acceptable behaviors. It's like staying on ready alert because you just know something bad is going to happen and the lulls between the storms are tensely spent wondering "what is going to happen next?"

    I'm sorry you are having such a hard time. I'm hoping if you document that a pattern will emerge that can help you thru this storm of emotion. Wish I had more to offer. Hugs DDD
  13. hpsmlefey

    hpsmlefey New Member

    You pretty well have her summed up as well as the lack of anyone here on the legal, medical, social work level that will help, other than (at fault of my own for not clarifying that my exhusband is not biodad. Her biological father has nothing to do with her, lives in another state and is in jail for failure pay child support to me and numerous other things). For about the past year or so, the only time she isn't acting out is when she is asleep. And she has her days and nights backwards so she doesn't have to deal with anyone AND so she can sneak out at night. We have tried the window alarms and such, but she will just break the windows to get out. Even after destroying our house, such as breaking windows, I have called the police and they tell me that since she lives here, they will do anything to her if she destroys the house, unless she basically burns it to the ground.
  14. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Do try keeping notes (not around her or available to her) just in case you can see a pattern of aggression or occasional calm. It will be admissable in Court if needed. Just thought of something else, lol. What is the policy in your area for truancy? In some communities truants are dealt with by authorities. Hmm. Even though I "get" why you're trying to home school, she is hooking up with bad influences at night anyway. If she "had" to attend school then it's less likely she could burn the candle from both ends. Sigh. Everyone gets tired eventually. Plus...ta da! would give your son a much needed break from his sister. You, too. Hugs DDD
  15. keista

    keista New Member

    Welcome. Sorry you have such a tumultuous daughter to deal with. I have no direct advice, but I do have lots of ((((HUGS))))

    One thing that dis strike me was
    If this information is all from HER, please don't believe it. I know it hurts to know she says this stuff, but everything else is a lie, so why believe that she's actually convinced your ex of your 'evildoing'? Please don't believe anything your daughter posts or says until you confirm it with the other parties involved. No confirmation? Then just assume it's not true.
  16. hpsmlefey

    hpsmlefey New Member

    The thing with my ex, i saw that in facebook messages between my daughter and my exSIL. My exSIL told my daughter that she(exSIL) had talked to her brother(my exhusband) and he said that he would help her get emancipated. He has been texting me telling me that I was an abandoner and I was a horrible mother, so I know that he does know about what she said to my exSIL. Right now, he is mad at me because he is getting divorced again and his wife will not let him have his son whenever he wants him (his child is going to be 2 in July) and her and I are still friends. He is mad because I did not take his side when she left him. To hear my daughter talk about my ex you would think he is the most horrible person on the face of the planet, but when she talks to his family he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. She will not tell me to my face that she hates me, yada yada yada, but will tell anyone else that will listen. She is not capable of telling anyone the truth about how she feels about them to their face, only behind their back.

    I wish this whole thing wasn't so complicated lol

    But then I seriously think without all of her drama my life would be boring, but right now I would welcome boring in a heartbeat
  17. hpsmlefey

    hpsmlefey New Member

    There are no truancy laws that pertain to her because she is homeschooled. I cannot homeschool because the school does not want her back. When I pulled her out they were already discussing kicking her out of school because she was very disruptive in school. I think it is ridiculous that the police will not do anything when she leaves unless she has been gone for more than 24 hours. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that this is such common behavior in this area that the cops are tired of dealing with it. Most parents around here do not seem to care if they do not know where their children are, I on the other hand do care.

    I have to say thank you again to all of you, you are all coming up with great things to consider, and I do keep a journal for her behavior, and my son keeps one as well for the things that she does to him.
  18. keista

    keista New Member

    So I'm assuming you got full custody? Does he have any visitation? Why not just send her to live with him? Shoot, I'd take him to court to force him to take her!

    Even if emancipation was an option in your state, I don't think that's the way it would work. I find it hard to believe that a judge would allow emancipation when a parent is standing right there supporting their child (whether they have legal custody or not)
  19. hpsmlefey

    hpsmlefey New Member

    My exhusband has no legal rights to see her at all because she is not his child. Her father is in jail in Alabama for various things and has not seen her in 10 years. I have sole custody of her. I cannot see how he thinks any judge would let him do anything like that with her, especially since he is NOT her biodad, has no legal rights to her, and has had numerous restraining orders put against him, several by me. I think she just wants everyone around me to hate me. It is working in this little town we live it, but people are starting to see through her lies.
  20. exhausted

    exhausted Active Member

    Hello and welcome.
    I have not read the other replies, sorry if I repeat. Cutting is serious. It often becomes a difficult addiction. She is hurting inside and getting the pain out. If you suspect drug use your probably right-again trying to deal with the pain. Sexually acting out, again a way to deal with pain and feel loved outside her family. I have been through all but the cutting with my daughter who is now 17. She made it impossible for us to keep her safe and we have placed her in 2 RTCs for a total of just over 2 years to get her help. When they run off they take away control and our ability to discipline. Unfortunetly for us, most states do nothing with habitual running and even truency. What you desribe with the police is what we have faced. It took a bad reaction to a prescription drug, which aggitated her, to get her to push us one day. She was trying to run away and we blocked the door. She pushed us and left marks where she grabbed us. We then were able to see a judge because we filed charges (desperate times=desperate measures). We had to give temporary custody to our state to get the second Residential Treatment Center (RTC). We were out of money and had no other choice. Our state does not have CHINS. Maybe yours does?

    Our experience with the state was not good. She did get intensive DBT skills which she would not have gotten anywhere else. However, there was neglect, and abuse. I have never been more worried in my life. Others have had better experiences, but many have not with state programs. Be very careful and involved if you choose this route.

    Churches and even some United Ways have funds for Residential Treatment Center (RTC) and treatments. If they run, I think you have no choice but to go this route. We would make appointments for therapy and medications. and she would have run off and we would have to cancel and pay a fee time after time.

    With your family history, I think you may have to force the issue of mental health help with her. She is a danger to herself. I would take her to a psychiatric hospital. the next time she cut and have her addmitted. It is expensive but they have resources for those who need help, so be persistant. You are at a terrifying crossroads. I have been there and know the feelings. You must act. I would call CPS and let them know what is going on with her threats. My daughter actually accused her brother of causing a bruise and it about killed him when they investigated. Of course it was dropped, but... We called them to ask for help and resources. They had nothing except to tell us to turn her into the law for anything illegal so we could get before a judge and beg for treatment. We did this over and over until the cop on weekend duty hated us, and called me crazy! He said we were tying up resources. Be prepared for this. People do not understand mental illness and often blame the parents. Also find out if your police have a mental health crisis team-they are trained to come out and help in an appropriate way-even transport to psychiatric hospital. We didn't know about this until after attending NAMI meetings.

    Good luck, keep us posted.