boarding school

[eekysign]

I have to ask, though lord knows I don't really want to know---exactly what did this kid do that "demeaned her" with her (unfortunately) loving boyfriend? I can't honestly think of anything that would demean a girl, I can definitely think of things she's really too young for, but nothing really demeaning, if she wanted to do it. I mean, isn't demeaning a state of mind? Did her texts make it sound like she was coerced into doing it, and didn't really want to? That's so sad.

I'm confused a little by the progression of her issues. Can you clear it up a little? You say that she's been lying and manipulating you for four years, but all her drug tests have come back clean so far. And you say she's getting drunk quite a bit, but you don't seem to know how long it's been going on---is she coming home to you wasted? Or are you finding out from some kind of screening test? All of your examples of her really bad behavior are from over a year and a half ago, or when she was younger, so other than the sex stuff/lying about boyfriends, what's the current situation?

And she was getting failing grades during those four years, but didn't stop being the easy child of the family until now? Umm, what else....ohh....what else is she "massively" lying about?

I just worry a little that you might be responding to typical teen behavior as a difficult child parent, not as a easy child parent. Caring only about boyfriends and friends and their own life is totally the typical 15-year-old girl. Drinking shouldn't be, I agree. But lack of empathy and self-centeredness is very much typical for the age. For example, Here's a link to an article discussing that. Give us a little more background on what she's currently doing that is making you feel so betrayed by her.

And now that I've heard more about her, I'm even more firmly convinced that boarding school isn't the right place. My sister's school was a VERY good one, and the girl across the hall was sent home two months in for smoking pot IN the dorms. And there was sneaking out and sex, and other drug use. Kids living with other kids---even the dorm parents have to sleep sometime. And a lot of these kids came from VERY irresponsible parental backgrounds. That's WHY the non-academic kids are there---they've been shipped off because their families don't want to deal with them. Even the good ones have been very, very spoiled. And they're much "older" than their years. NOT a good place for her.

 

[janebrain]

Hi Jennifer,
well now she sounds more like my difficult child 1! My girl also had me manipulated for many years. She was so good at sounding like she "got" it and so sincere when we had our heart-to-heart talks. She charmed everyone she met, everyone loved her. We did end up sending her to an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) because we just couldn't keep her safe and it was a lockdown in Utah so she couldn't run and she had to work the program in order to get out. She actually did very well there with all the structure and the other difficult children working hard to change their ways. I think she was sad to leave--it was sort of like living in a college dorm except with very strict rules and lots of therapy. She did relapse when she returned home but that's another story.

Sorry, that age is so hard and it is so hard to find a solution when you are defied every step of the way.

Hugs,
Jane

 

[Rotsne]

Jennifer: I did research the myspace groups of the specific continuation school the family coach considered. It was a closed group, so I hacked my daughters myspace account and did get access to the message board. What I saw was both good and bad but it gave me an idea whether the former students felt that the school worked for them. Of course the ones who have just left the school may still feel some anger about having missed party time, but when people in their 30's still feel that their parents were cheated something isn't right. By then their matureness combined with the therapy should have made them agree that their parents did the right thing.

I wouldn't settle for a visit or the word of an ed con. I happened to see a number of lawsuits where the local school district had their doubts about how much the school pays the ed con for refering a child to them. There is a story about teenager using alcohol aged 13 and how the poor parents ended up in a lawsuit with the District.

The belated disclosure of the relationship between Dr. Conway and MBA has engendered bitter recriminations by the District. I have neither the authority nor the knowledge to determine whether Dr. Conway’s conduct in this matter violated any ethical constraints applicable to school psychologists. At best, what happened resulted from a failure by Dr. Conway to be scrupulously careful in disclosing his affiliation with MBA, and (with hindsight) a failure by Ms. Andrea Hungerford to be scrupulously careful in inquiring about Dr. Conway’s affiliations. Although I denied the District’s motion to bar Dr. Conway’s testimony and strike “those portions of his evaluation and report regarding recommended placement for J. J.,” in evaluating the weight of Dr. Conway’s opinions I have taken note of his ongoing association with MBA. I do not consider him a neutral witness

While these anti-behavior modification sites tend to be critical against program, it is interesting to visit them and find the one your own child either was in or are about to attend.

Being placed in the same situation with lies, stealing money and sexual activity I would properly seek an alternative use of my holidays than being with the family. I know that a wilderness therapy program provide a week long family wilderness course. I would rather miss Christmas than have to worry for one or two years if my money will result in something which would pay off in the end.

I hope that you find a solution with your daughter and I will pray for it.

 

[BusynMember]

Lying can very much be a part of typical teen. So is drinking. I have no real grasp on your daughter's issues.
How do you feel a boarding school will change anything? Wouldn't she have more freedom to do as she wants? Do you think she'll really listen to the people in charge? Are you really looking for an Residential Treatment Center (RTC)?
I had such a challenging difficult child that yours doesn't seem so bad to me...lol. I'm just glad my days with her are over and that you come up with a good solution for your family.

 

[Jena]

you guys have been so great, thank you so very much. my time on the internet has been soo limited past two days i feel lost coming in i'm missing so much. lol. i've been doing alot of running around, difficult child's pyschdoc today now hw, last night 5 kids, tonight wrapping with boyfriend once we do dinner and settle difficult child down. ewh holiday time!!

anyway Jane Im' glad to hear that the program worked for your difficult child! That is great! It's just a matter of finding the "right" thing that will work for easy child at this point. I"m truly not sure if that type of a place is the right thing for her, (ok on the phone getting difficult child's spelling words at the same time lol)....

I"m hoping I do the right thing, i dont' think it's a simple teenage thing, only due to the fact that it has gotten progressively worse with-her. thanks for all your support. i'm sorry i haven't been able to read anyone's threads past day or so......... ugh.

Eek- sorry for short lol. - She gave him oral sex, there i said it. yuck. besides other. point being this is the "new" thing kids are doing these days. they seem to thonk it's a safe option to not having sex. It is not. Same diseases can be caught and i have looked up on line that her self esteem can be totally damaged from doing this at such a young age. 20/20 did a special on this exact topic about a year ago, it's the new thing that all the kids are currently doing.

As far as the progression i think i pretty much covered it, started years back and gotten worse ever since. tons of "team school meetings" easy child isnt' focused, easy child doens't care, all she cares about are her freinds, this that and the other thing. She was offered a different school situation a program that would offer more a trade and than she would finish off her high school as well. She chose not to do that. fine.

betrayed, yes without a doubt. she has lied for years, she's good at it. she lies so she can get what she wants. this is who she is. she'll manipulate anyone she can to get what she needs and wants. i just didn't think she was taking me for a ride i was hopeful that things had changed and i was so so proud of her. I was also making a point to tell her that everyday the past mos.!! LOL. little did i know.

anyhow, i'm waiting on call backs from various schools right now. I am not jumping the gun. I"m not that type of person. I just have to figure out meanwhile while i am making these decisions what things to put in place and how for her since she needs it. also how to handle this boy. we have done nothing yet. which isn't good.

 

[eekysign]

Eek- sorry for short lol. - She gave him oral sex, there i said it. yuck. besides other. point being this is the "new" thing kids are doing these days. they seem to thonk it's a safe option to not having sex. It is not. Same diseases can be caught and i have looked up on line that her self esteem can be totally damaged from doing this at such a young age. 20/20 did a special on this exact topic about a year ago, it's the new thing that all the kids are currently doing.

I will say this, and only this: It's not new (or at least it was happening over a decade ago with my generation!), it depends on how you were raised as to whether you consider it demeaning (I don't think it is), and it certainly is not going to damage her self-esteem (didn't hurt me one bit), without other factors intervening (like being forced to do it, etc).

I'm not gonna step on any morality toes (hehehe...morality toes!), but remember that different families have different ways of looking at sexual activity. What to you may seem demeaning, may seem to others as a very common sex act. It seems that this is not something you are OK with....but I doubt you'll convince her of that....and it may harm her at this point, to do so. Sigh. I am SO happy my sis hasn't gotten to this stage yet. So much to worry about!

 

[Jena]

well to be quite honest, it can lower their self esteem. it's documented on various different websites that it can do such. They are basically proviing a service for nothing in exchange if they meaning a girl performs it.

As far as different families are concerned. We do not speak openly on sex topics and discuss what one should or shouldn't do. I educate her to the risks involved, including disease first and pregnancy, the emotional attachment that can come from such that their minds at this age or younger are just not ready to handle. So, basically at this stage of the game she shouldn't be doing that, or anything else in my eyes. I"d rather they'd made love for the first time only. Yet she decided to "take care" of him. This sickens me.

I have tried my best to educate her i truly have. to show her right from wrong. I myself have never even had a revolving door so to speak as a single mom. there were never men in and out. I could see hey if mom's doing it, than let me. Yet i made sure to keep my personal life, just that "personal". So her thought process and lack of yes self esteem i think on some level has brought her to this point. it is sad she is so not ready for the world she is now entering. Or the bad choices she has made, and continues to make. I can only hope that whatever it is we decide to do makes some sort of an impact.

ok my thoughts are bouncing and i have to check up on everyone else. i have no clue how everyone else is lol.

i so so appreciate your thoughts though. it is always helfpul to gain perspective from someone else's viewpoint.

sorry if i've rambled, i'm juggling on my end. lol

 

[Ropefree]

Just want you to know that I am empathetic to how frightening our teens
sexuality is for us as parents when they do these things.

This time is so precarious. They are still developing and not experianced and they do not really grasp how dangerous the things they can do really are in oh so many ways.

I can only imagin how you are feeling. What ever you do do I want to read about it. There are solutions and neccisty is the mother of invention.

 

[meowbunny]

Well, I may as well jump into the fray. Sorry, but she sounds like a typical teen, up to and including the lying, manipulation, etc. Yes, there are some good teens but even good teens pull their stunts.

Not sure why you think oral sex is demeaning or yucky, it's a sexual act. The problem is that a lot of teens don't think it is "having sex" because it isn't "real" intercourse and, of course, the girl can't get pregnant. Of course, she can get STDs in the mouth (now, that's a YUCK), cancer of the throat, all kinds of yucky things. There is little without risk nowadays.

I'm with the majority, though. I'm not sure what you think a boarding school will accomplish. It certainly won't stop the manipulation, lying, sexual activity, etc. About the only thing it will stop is you knowing about it right away. If you mean an Residential Treatment Center (RTC), that's a whole different ball of wax and makes a boarding school seem dirt cheap. If she's truly out of control, then an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) might be the answer. If she's being a typical teen more on the wild side, then some serious home intervention might be the answer.

I do agree that she's being a total brat, but most girls her age are. One thing you can do to make her really miserable is go out on a date with your boyfriend again and hire a babysitter for HER. Let your little one do an overnighter with a friend, so there's no doubt who is being babysat. She's proving to be immature enough to break the very basic rules of the house and try to manipulate you in the process. She deserves the humiliation. Grounding is a definite and absolutely no alone time with her boyfriend for at least a month.

I know it hurts but she really isn't doing anything that unusual for today's society. Kids do lie to their parents so they can do what they want. Once the hormones start, common sense; empathy for adults; consideration for parents goes right out the window. Also, don't be surprised if she throws in your face that you're living with your boyfriend, so there's no reason she can't do the same. It is a very sharp sword she has there.

Good luck in finding something that works (besides maturity).

 

[Jena]

Meow bunny thanks and you are always welcome to jump into the fray!! LOL jump one, jump all!!! into my sinking boat that is.

Ok i gotta ask what is typical teen??? i'm lost on that one???

as far as the rest of it goes. i've thought the very same things. difficult child cna't handle overnights oh boy so many issues there lol. yet i get your point and i have thought the same thing. I wans't saying i was going to do the boarding school i was just saying i was "thinking" of it and wanted to know what ppl thought of it??

the reason i'd do a boarding school is because easy child doens't care about her academics, I can see the drop out thing happening already. we offered her different programs yet she has no desire to at all. As far as the act itself i've looked it up and watched a few specials they say it messes their heads up. It's a rough one for me, it triggers my past childhood (ugh. is all i can say to that childhood lol). anyway they say it demeans them because unlike us adults at that age their "servicing" the boy basically with nothing in return. ya know what i mean without getting too graphic??

ok, what is typical teen??

 

[meowbunny]

typical teen = Typical Teen

One thing that we as adults have to do is separate our pasts and experiences from what is today's reality. I have major issues with the Lord's name used in vain, which is why I refuse to use the term for our kids here. However, you can use any 4-letter word around me and I won't bat an eye. As hard as it is, I have had to accept that my issue is not a contemporary issue and the Lord's name is used constantly in today's society. You're in the same boat with oral sex and sex at younger ages. Stinks but that's the way it is. by the way -- Some girls actually enjoy giving oral sex. They don't see it as servicing the boy at all. The smart ones make dang sure the act is reciprocated.

 

[Jena]

LOL alrite yuck!! Sorry i see your point yet she's too too young. Typical teen maybe, bad teen yes. Bad bad choices, and i think it's a really big deal what she did, the choices she has continued to make regarding herself for the past 4 years and now just sex. Lying, stealing, manipulating, she was back to trying to get all of us feeding out of her hands again tonight. She has a way of manipulating anyone it's scary to be honest.

I know it may seem as though i'm being dramatic and i am trying to stay the course here i am, yet i think what she did at this age, the lying to me and manipulation is ridiculous and can't be tolerated. otherwise i'm teaching her that lying and be disrespect is a good thing.

thanks and i see your point about seperating our past from raising our children. it's a hard one for me especially this topic. Wow, it smacks me dead across the face.

thanks!!!! i appreciate the support

 

[meowbunny]

Jennifer, my daughter was and is very manipulative. We won't discuss all the things that were stolen from me, my friends, her friends, classmates, teachers and, of course, stores. I learned to never ask a question because there wouldn't be a word of truth in the answer. And so on and so forth. The only thing I didn't have to worry about was her having sex. She really wasn't interested in her early to mid teens. So, trust me, when I say I do understand but nothing you have said about your daughter seems to warrant an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) and a boarding school won't stop a dang thing.

I feel sad every time I hear about a young girl having sex at 13, 14, 15, 16. They give away such a precious part of themselves without really knowing why except that it feels good. Of course, this has been going on for a long, long time. It's just more in the open now.

Now, if this were my daughter, her life would be very miserable for a long, long time. Not for having sex. The repercussions for that will be very natural consequences -- a pap smear, a lecture by the doctor, a viewing of a few pics that I find on the internet of STDs (the more graphic the better, including those of the throat), etc. In other words, anything that will let her know that sex at any age, let alone at 15, does have serious consequences. Being the type of mom I am and since you don't trust boyfriend's parents to do a dang thing, I'd have him sit through a couple of sessions with me (not with easy child present) giving him the info he needs to make an informed choice. And, yes, that is how I would phrase it.

For the lying and the texting, the first thing I'd do is remove texting from her phone and it would not be coming back until at least the beginning of next school year. Mom or boyfriend would be taking and picking her up for all events, checking with all parents if a sleepover, etc. for the rest of the school year. Of course, this is on top of being grounded for X amount of time (a month seems reasonable to me, but I am and was a mean mom). Basically, I would make the consequences for her behavior hurt and hurt a lot.

And now a tip -- teens do not miss parents when parents are away. Teens revel in parents being gone. If your kid keeps contacting you, rest assured they are up to something. It's the nature of the beast. Teenhood is the time to start distancing from parents. Ergo, teens really do the worst, dumbest, most irritating things so that it is easier to leave the nest -- they think they will have tremendous freedom when on their own, their parents can't wait for them leave so they don't have to put up with the garbage any more. It starts when hormones start coming into the picture (do remember that it is only in recent history that kids stayed at home for so long -- marriage at 13 wasn't all that uncommon in the history of mankind; age 15 was very common less than 100 years ago; 18 was the average age for marriage in the 50s and 60s and kids frequently got married younger than that).

So, let her know she blew it big time. She disrespected your home and your beliefs. She broke the rules. She lied. She tried to manipulate you. She deserves you coming down hard on her. Do make her life perfectly miserable for awhile. Also let her know that she will have to rebuild the trust and that's not going to happen until the punishment period is over and then only step by step. However, once the consequence/punishment period is over, let it go. Watch her but give her a chance to prove she can follow the rules. Parents of teens walk very fine lines. I used to say a tightrope walker had nothing on me -- I walked on a silk thread almost 24/7. It's part of the job. She's doing hers by testing, trying to rip those apron strings. You do yours by making sure those apron strings are very strong and very long.

HUGS

 

[TerryJ2]

Typical Teen.
I think.

 

[eekysign]

Lying, stealing, manipulating, she was back to trying to get all of us feeding out of her hands again tonight. She has a way of manipulating anyone it's scary to be honest.

Oh, totally, we're all just here to help each other out, yeah? I think here's what could help us help you---ignoring this issue of sex entirely, give us examples of this:

1) Lying
2) Stealing
3) Manipulating


I think that may be why we're thinking it's just typical teen behavior, and can't understand why you're so concerned. Other than about having a boy over (which is DEFINITELY teen normalcy!! hehehe), what other things is she lying about currently? What is she stealing? How are you being manipulated? How do you know she's drinking? Why do you think she's using drugs, when her screens keep coming back clear?

This will help us really respond to you.

 

[LucyB]

Jennifer,

I have no advice for you, but I wanted to let you know that I understand since we went through something very similar with our daughter. I was also told by many people, including the psychiatric we took her to, that her behavior was normal or typical teen. I think to a certain extent it can be considered typical, but at some point it becomes too extreme and crosses the line. I guess we all draw that line in different places, but in my opinion my daughter crossed the line.

Like your daughter, mine went through a drastic change around 7th grade. I've always wondered if anything triggered it.

I thought about boarding school and wilderness programs too, but didn't do it. I don't know whether I made the right decision or not.

My daughter is almost 19 and is in college, but her lack of interest in academics definitely limited her possibilities. I don't have her first semester grades yet, but her midterms weren't very good. She still manipulates, lies, and thinks she is entitled to everything.