DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
Casey always looks weird because she is weird. She has those dead psycho eyes. There is no real emotional attachment behind them.
Casey Anthony Bombshell!
- Thread starter DammitJanet
- Start date
Malika
Well-Known Member
I did watch some of the trial yesterday (despite my current project; addiction is addiction...) and was struck by Casey's obvious upset, genuine or not, which has given me some food for thought since. To me - looking through my particular filter - she was uspet like that for one of two reasons. Either the child died "accidentally" after her neglect/cruelty and she is stricken with remorse plus guilt (in Casey's version, which also seems to contain self-pity) or she really did kill her on purpose, which I personally find the least likely scenario, and she is stricken with an inability to deal truly with what she has done. The crying and upset were therefore ways of distancing herself from the crime, as though it horriifed her, as though she were not truly responsible, or to be pitied for having found herself in that situation... If that makes sense.
And, with that, I shall get out of my psychology armchair and go and do some work
And, with that, I shall get out of my psychology armchair and go and do some work
Have we ever seen tears though? She just does that weird wiping her eyes as though she were crying. If there was an accident, there would be real tears. She makes her eyes red from that wiping. She isn't fooling anyone. The only thing that gets her upset is when the prosecution make sher look bad. Boo freaking hoo.
H
HaoZi
Guest
"Perhaps the most disturbing in the progression of photos prosecutors displayed Thursday came later: a frontal view of Caylee's skull — empty eye sockets, hair matted on the top, front and sides, covering much of what was once a face, vegetation and overlapping pieces of duct tape. The grayish tape formed a kind of mask along the right side of the skull, covering the jaw and nasal cavity."
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...anthony-trial-day-14-20110609,0,7526113.story
That doesn't happen by accident.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...anthony-trial-day-14-20110609,0,7526113.story
That doesn't happen by accident.
Malika
Well-Known Member
Has it been said that the tape was applied BEFORE death? I haven't seen all the evidence so may have missed that.
In all fairness, I think anyone might be inhibited in their emotions when they know they are being watched by millions of people... But we just don't know what is going on for Casey. She may be putting it all on, just as she told so many lies. It would be nice to believe she wasn't so far gone that she is even beyond feeling some remorse and grief at the death of her child.
In all fairness, I think anyone might be inhibited in their emotions when they know they are being watched by millions of people... But we just don't know what is going on for Casey. She may be putting it all on, just as she told so many lies. It would be nice to believe she wasn't so far gone that she is even beyond feeling some remorse and grief at the death of her child.
H
HaoZi
Guest
There's some of the tape if you want a peek. Duct tape doesn't tend to move a whole lot. Ever. That's about the best brand on the market for consumers (industrial use is something else).
Star*
call 911........call 911
I'm still sticking with my thoughts - The family is appearing to be thrown under the bus to save Caseys bacon....and would do any and everything to make EVERYONE have reasonable doubt. At this point how many of YOU don't know if Casey did it or George did it because of what has been ALLOWED to be said by Caseys attorney? Isn't it very ODD that George has NOT gotten an attorney to fight any or ALL of the statements that have come out from his daughter against him? If he was FOR his Granddaughters justice and AGAINST his daughters murdering ways, and NOT part of the dog and pony show to create reasonable doubt I believe he would be FURIOUS at the things that are being said about him. This is waining with the general population so NOW the attorney is seeking to upset nearly every culture there is - and stating Ms. Anthony is being picked on because she is a lesbian. Wow - she's a molested child, who did not get any treatment for any type of disorder or behavior as a child, that was observed by her Mother, then abused and molested by her brother (as well as her Father) goes on to have a child out of wedlock with an unknown Father, is a chronic liar as stated by her parents who again knew she has been like this since she was a child but did nothing about it? Then kills her child to pursue a partying lesbian lifestyle (and the attorney is trying to make some issue with the public out of that, allthough I don't think it's going anywhere other than 50 year old women on the jury may take issue with it - and how does HE know if any of them are or arent bisexual or lesbian or gay? honestly.) And now we see her having to look at pictures of a decomposed body of a child - her child with out eyes, and rotting flesh and oh does this upset her? Well you know what? I'm guessing stress, maybe running out of drawing paper, having sat there and made a complete fool of your entire family, having a large part of the world absolute despise you and think you really did kill your child and maybe your thoughts were that she looked like she did when you put tape and a sticker over her mouth then seeing her in a rotting and decomposing state for maybe the first time? WOULD upset nearly anyone.
I'm not giving her creedence that she has consciousnous over anything she did. My thoughts are simple - If you or me or anyone no matter if we had conscious or not saw pictures like that - you probably aren't going to be prepared for them and they would probably make you sick. Maybe she had not had lunch, maybe she had just had lunch. I doubt it had much to do with loving her chlld, or remorse. If anything it had to do with how SHE felt and self. OH woe is me - I have to look at this.
IMVHO. I don't despise this young woman. I think at this point it's best to forgive her for what she's done, punish her and move on. Nothing can come from hating her if she's mentally ill - she's not cognitive of what she's done. If she isn't mentally ill? Then she's the one that has to live with this for the rest of her life. I sincerely doubt with all the media attention she will get the death penalty. There are at least seven mothers here in SC (susan smith being one of them) that in recent years have killed their children and NONE of them have received the death penalty. Right down the road from our house about seven months ago a woman drove her van into the river and killed two of her three children - she said if her Mother had allowed her to have her little girl that morning she would have killed her too. And what about the Mother with the boyfriend (I think in Indiana) about three months ago that beat the little boy for peeing his pants = beat him to death - then ordered a pizza? WHY are we so fascinated with THIS case.....why don't THOSE children get as much attention? I get this was horrible - a horrible death - but I think if she gets off and gets life - it's going to send a very bad message to women that are killing their children. Or boyfriends or Fathers that are killing children. And what ever happened to the Sunday school teacher that stuffed the little girl into the suitcase and tossed her in the canal? See? There are lots of kids that die and we never hear any more about it. I'm still waiting to hear about little Hailey....in FLorida - the stepmom i think is like 17- and the brother was in on it - and Nancy Grace was all over that - and POOF - nothing more. What about THOSE children?
Secondly? Sociopaths and Psychopaths can make themselves cry and appear upset.
I'm not giving her creedence that she has consciousnous over anything she did. My thoughts are simple - If you or me or anyone no matter if we had conscious or not saw pictures like that - you probably aren't going to be prepared for them and they would probably make you sick. Maybe she had not had lunch, maybe she had just had lunch. I doubt it had much to do with loving her chlld, or remorse. If anything it had to do with how SHE felt and self. OH woe is me - I have to look at this.
IMVHO. I don't despise this young woman. I think at this point it's best to forgive her for what she's done, punish her and move on. Nothing can come from hating her if she's mentally ill - she's not cognitive of what she's done. If she isn't mentally ill? Then she's the one that has to live with this for the rest of her life. I sincerely doubt with all the media attention she will get the death penalty. There are at least seven mothers here in SC (susan smith being one of them) that in recent years have killed their children and NONE of them have received the death penalty. Right down the road from our house about seven months ago a woman drove her van into the river and killed two of her three children - she said if her Mother had allowed her to have her little girl that morning she would have killed her too. And what about the Mother with the boyfriend (I think in Indiana) about three months ago that beat the little boy for peeing his pants = beat him to death - then ordered a pizza? WHY are we so fascinated with THIS case.....why don't THOSE children get as much attention? I get this was horrible - a horrible death - but I think if she gets off and gets life - it's going to send a very bad message to women that are killing their children. Or boyfriends or Fathers that are killing children. And what ever happened to the Sunday school teacher that stuffed the little girl into the suitcase and tossed her in the canal? See? There are lots of kids that die and we never hear any more about it. I'm still waiting to hear about little Hailey....in FLorida - the stepmom i think is like 17- and the brother was in on it - and Nancy Grace was all over that - and POOF - nothing more. What about THOSE children?
Secondly? Sociopaths and Psychopaths can make themselves cry and appear upset.
Marcie Mac
Just Plain Ole Tired
Good point Star, except for the fact it was reported yesterday that she had SEEN those photographs before in the company of her attorney
I don't believe most of those "tears" were real - how many times can you wipe your eyes, look at the tissue, wipe again, look at the tissue, wipe again all round your eyes, look at the tissue, refold the tissue, wipe again, put it on your nose, look at it, wipe again and on and on and on. Her eyes were red, as would mine be if I did the same thing, poking and rubbing my eyes.
I hope if anything the magnitude of what she did to that beautiful baby is hitting home - The pictures of that little angel everyone saw during the first part of the trial where she was a real person, are gone and and now replaced by those gastly ones the end. Its not about Casey anymore, its about Caylee.
Marcie
I don't believe most of those "tears" were real - how many times can you wipe your eyes, look at the tissue, wipe again, look at the tissue, wipe again all round your eyes, look at the tissue, refold the tissue, wipe again, put it on your nose, look at it, wipe again and on and on and on. Her eyes were red, as would mine be if I did the same thing, poking and rubbing my eyes.
I hope if anything the magnitude of what she did to that beautiful baby is hitting home - The pictures of that little angel everyone saw during the first part of the trial where she was a real person, are gone and and now replaced by those gastly ones the end. Its not about Casey anymore, its about Caylee.
Marcie
Marcie Mac
Just Plain Ole Tired
As to the little girl in the suitcase and her Sunday school teacher, she admitted what she did and cut a deal -got 25 years to life. Little Hailey, there was never a body found, nor really the truth comming out with a lot of hicks with drug problems pointing the fingers at each other. But the father and the step mom were put away for 25 years on an unrelated drug charge, heavy for a first time charge, but some sort of justice
But I think the State of Florida is unique with everything being a matter of public record. And if Casey had not have weaved all those stories, with her parents going public after actually believing her, this trial would probably never have come to light much.
Marcie
But I think the State of Florida is unique with everything being a matter of public record. And if Casey had not have weaved all those stories, with her parents going public after actually believing her, this trial would probably never have come to light much.
Marcie
donna723
Well-Known Member
Now that they're on their lunch break, one of the commentators made an interesting point. He said that she had been sitting there sobbing on the attorneys shoulder, then when the break was announced, she seemed to turn it right off, popped up out of her chair and headed off to lunch like everything was just fine!
Star*
call 911........call 911
I wonder about the kleenex thing - It is possible that something has been put (an irritant) on a kleenex and when she wants to cry? She just reaches in her pocket and takes out that kleenex and rubs it in her eyes. It could be fingernail polish remover, or cleaning chemical, and the more you rub the more it makes you tear. My thoughts - But Marcie I'm with you as far as folding and wiping and folding and wiping - it's an act. I think she has tainted kleenex in her pockets, swaps them out and uses them as she sees fit for pity purposes. Heck you rub your eyes with Bounty long enough? You'll cry too. That stuff is rough.
I didn't know the Dad got put away too in the Hailey case...I think he thought he was going to get out/off. Not much for the life of his daughter. The Sunday school teacher 25 years? WOW. That's it huh? My son stood by a street sign and yelled the coast is clear to 2 guys on probation when he was 15 who took stuff out of a house and they wanted to give him THIRTY years - and these people KILLED their children and only get 25 years? Something is very wrong with our justice system. My son can't even get a job (not saying he's a gem or was right - what he did was wrong) but not to the point it should have ruined his life....and these people get less time that he was going to get? Just amazing.
Thanks for the update Marcie
I didn't know the Dad got put away too in the Hailey case...I think he thought he was going to get out/off. Not much for the life of his daughter. The Sunday school teacher 25 years? WOW. That's it huh? My son stood by a street sign and yelled the coast is clear to 2 guys on probation when he was 15 who took stuff out of a house and they wanted to give him THIRTY years - and these people KILLED their children and only get 25 years? Something is very wrong with our justice system. My son can't even get a job (not saying he's a gem or was right - what he did was wrong) but not to the point it should have ruined his life....and these people get less time that he was going to get? Just amazing.
Thanks for the update Marcie
Malika
Well-Known Member
Well, call me naive (doubtless some of you will think it even if you are polite enough not to say it ) but when I saw Casey crying at the mention of animals chewing on her daughter's bones, I saw a woman in genuine grief. Whatever she has done, she is still a human being with a human heart. It was her daughter. I find myself unable to get much further than that - and I KNOW she is supposed to have killed her... I'm afraid I remain convinced that it was a terrible accident that arose after she had drugged the child for her own selfish reasons.
I could be completely wrong. It goes without saying.
) but when I saw Casey crying at the mention of animals chewing on her daughter's bones, I saw a woman in genuine grief. Whatever she has done, she is still a human being with a human heart. It was her daughter. I find myself unable to get much further than that - and I KNOW she is supposed to have killed her... I'm afraid I remain convinced that it was a terrible accident that arose after she had drugged the child for her own selfish reasons. I could be completely wrong. It goes without saying.
Shari
IsItFridayYet?
I can see your point, Malika. She could have been ticked off and accidentally killed the child, and feel bad about it. Like some of the shaken babies...not that those people don't love them, but they go over the top. They can kill the kid and still have the capacity to feel bad about it.
And she seems to have (however it happened, "accidental" or not) killed her child, but not only that, then went on to concoct story after story after story about how and why its not her fault, so not only is her child dead, and in moments of clarity, she's grieving for that....but she's also watching all of her tales unravel before her....which I can completely see making it even more emotional for her.
I still think, whether she meant to or not, she killed this little girl. And *IF* it was an "accident", it wasn't cause she left her unattended in the bathtub while she refilled her coffee mug...
And she seems to have (however it happened, "accidental" or not) killed her child, but not only that, then went on to concoct story after story after story about how and why its not her fault, so not only is her child dead, and in moments of clarity, she's grieving for that....but she's also watching all of her tales unravel before her....which I can completely see making it even more emotional for her.
I still think, whether she meant to or not, she killed this little girl. And *IF* it was an "accident", it wasn't cause she left her unattended in the bathtub while she refilled her coffee mug...
donna723
Well-Known Member
The medical examiner, "Doctor G" from the TV show, just testified that she had ruled it as a homicide because of the circumstances even though they could not determine the exact cause of death due to the decomposition of the body.
Casey may be showing genuine emotion because of the loss of her child, BUT the tears could very well be for herself as it all goes down around her. I think this is more likely. And remember, this woman could have been an Oscar-worthy actress! I keep remembering the tapes of the jail house visits with her parents right after she was arrested, BEFORE it was known that the child was dead. Of course, SHE knew that her child was dead but she went on and on so passionately at her parents about how she just knew she would be coming home to them and urging them to do everything they could do to find the imaginary babysitter ... and it was all an act! She's good! She was so convincing that if you didn't know better, you would believe every word that she said, and you would believe the she was the grieving mother desperately looking for her missing child! And then she expected to get away with it and never thought she would be looking at pictures of what was left of the child's body after she dumped it. If she's"grieving", it's for herself!
Casey may be showing genuine emotion because of the loss of her child, BUT the tears could very well be for herself as it all goes down around her. I think this is more likely. And remember, this woman could have been an Oscar-worthy actress! I keep remembering the tapes of the jail house visits with her parents right after she was arrested, BEFORE it was known that the child was dead. Of course, SHE knew that her child was dead but she went on and on so passionately at her parents about how she just knew she would be coming home to them and urging them to do everything they could do to find the imaginary babysitter ... and it was all an act! She's good! She was so convincing that if you didn't know better, you would believe every word that she said, and you would believe the she was the grieving mother desperately looking for her missing child! And then she expected to get away with it and never thought she would be looking at pictures of what was left of the child's body after she dumped it. If she's"grieving", it's for herself!
Malika
Well-Known Member
I take your points. But mine is really this... That even if she IS completely sociopathic, a pathological liar (and I agree the lies and the plausibility of the lies have been extraordinary), there is still a part of her - even if it is a buried, lost, fragmented part - that feels genuine emotion, that is authentic. In that moment of hearing about the animals chewing the bones of her toddler daughter, I saw a moment of real grief, real realisation. It may have disappeared as quickly as it came. But it was there and for that moment she connected to reality.
I suppose this is all to say that no-one, not even the worst and blackest of murderers, is beyond redemption, beyond humanity.
But she may never come to fully acknowledge the truth, in herself or outside, and so she may never become fully human again.
I suppose this is all to say that no-one, not even the worst and blackest of murderers, is beyond redemption, beyond humanity.
But she may never come to fully acknowledge the truth, in herself or outside, and so she may never become fully human again.
Star*
call 911........call 911
Malika - your thoughts are just as plausable as anyone elses. But I wonder......IF Casey is so distraught at this point? Why wouldn't she -you/me or anyone else just get up and say "OKAY OKAY I DID IT...!" and break down and admit your guilt, confess and get it out of your system?" WHy the charade? Why all the media hype, the attention the tax payers money? Something goes from A to C without hitting B for me with her. Yes - she was a Mother, Yes it very well could have been an accident and she tried to cover it all up, and is human and made a mistake. Like I said - personally I have no ill feelings for the woman. She's forgiven and we have to move on. But....if the tears and remorse were actually over hearing that animals were eating her daughters bones? And she's really and truly a sociopath? THAT wouldn't have phased her. The tears would be an act. If she's not a sociopath, and the statement about the wild animals eating her daughters corpse bothered her and the tears are real? At this point I would expect the stress, the press, the junk with dragging her parents into it - and the whole thing would be making her mental and she would by now just break down and confess. The fact that she can sit there stoic, then cry, the get up for lunch unabashed? Color me fresh but I lean more towards her attempting a range of put on emotions.
I would hope for her souls sake you are right though. Makes her much more human because people really do not, on the whole identify with behaviors of socio and psychopaths as being human. We have range and depth and emotions. They are incapable of those things and to us it makes them less human -just primal and lacking. Sociopaths and psychopaths are NOT capable of emotions like that. There is a disconnect and as much as we would LIKE or wish it to be there? It is not there. We can't make them more human by thinking we see things in them that we feel. As far as saying the worst of the worst are not redeemable? WOW....I think that is a really really hard thought that I have wrestled with for over twenty five years. I guess I will say this much and not speak of it anymore because it touches my heart and my family too closely, and maybe you can understand enough from it to accept my thoughts and appreciate my world. When I pray I say a multitude of things and ask for a lot of things and when it comes to one individual I say "And Lord, may this person find you and in doing so stay far, far away from me." Because I can't ever be near that kind of evil again, I can't fix it, I can't hardly think about it, what it did to me, my family, my life and I can't even remember a lot of it. But I could after 15 years of thearapy - find forgiveness in myself, and eventually that person - and an ability to just leave it alone. Not hate, not want retribution, not death for myself or them - just void of everything. You can't fix evil - you can just stay away from it, and pray it stays away from you, and finds devine intervention. Until you've known it? Lived with it and not just survived it but overcome it? It's very hard sit back and be a person that can understand how they behave, think, live, -----and operate. But to try to put human emotions to them? No...wishful thinking. If anything at all - emulation, and acting for their own purpose.
Hope I've explained it well enough without getting preachy or sadistic. But they are who they are. human yes - just lacking emotions that we feel complete us ....after a certain time fixing is not a human option - only a divine option.
I would hope for her souls sake you are right though. Makes her much more human because people really do not, on the whole identify with behaviors of socio and psychopaths as being human. We have range and depth and emotions. They are incapable of those things and to us it makes them less human -just primal and lacking. Sociopaths and psychopaths are NOT capable of emotions like that. There is a disconnect and as much as we would LIKE or wish it to be there? It is not there. We can't make them more human by thinking we see things in them that we feel. As far as saying the worst of the worst are not redeemable? WOW....I think that is a really really hard thought that I have wrestled with for over twenty five years. I guess I will say this much and not speak of it anymore because it touches my heart and my family too closely, and maybe you can understand enough from it to accept my thoughts and appreciate my world. When I pray I say a multitude of things and ask for a lot of things and when it comes to one individual I say "And Lord, may this person find you and in doing so stay far, far away from me." Because I can't ever be near that kind of evil again, I can't fix it, I can't hardly think about it, what it did to me, my family, my life and I can't even remember a lot of it. But I could after 15 years of thearapy - find forgiveness in myself, and eventually that person - and an ability to just leave it alone. Not hate, not want retribution, not death for myself or them - just void of everything. You can't fix evil - you can just stay away from it, and pray it stays away from you, and finds devine intervention. Until you've known it? Lived with it and not just survived it but overcome it? It's very hard sit back and be a person that can understand how they behave, think, live, -----and operate. But to try to put human emotions to them? No...wishful thinking. If anything at all - emulation, and acting for their own purpose.
Hope I've explained it well enough without getting preachy or sadistic. But they are who they are. human yes - just lacking emotions that we feel complete us ....after a certain time fixing is not a human option - only a divine option.
H
HaoZi
Guest
In re: death penalty. When it comes to handing it out and enforcing it, your top 3 states for that are Florida, California, and Texas, running pretty evenly with each other. The rest of the states with it pale by comparison in both sentencing and enforcement. Her smartest move would have been to plea out and take a life sentence, but she didn't - so I think lawyer is turning it into a dog and pony show for a better appeal. Witnesses can say what they like - the evidence stays the same.
klmno
Active Member
Yeah, I was under the impression that they had tried to cut a deal with her early on in this but she refused so once more facts became known, the prosecution is going for the harshest sentence. I read somewhere that it's been years years (if ever) since a mother received a death penalty for killing her own child BECAUSE most all women who do that break at some point, confess, and are remorseful on some level, even if not as remorseful as most would be. I can't imagine doing something like that for any reason but I would have long since lost my mind if I had, accidental or not. No matter what I'm sure I couldn't live with it and I would have confessed a LONG time ago. But that's all a moot point I guess- Casey is just not built like most people.
I just got off work so am trying to catch up on what has happened today but it sounds like they've been covering the detailed questions I had. The ones that would put the nail in Casey's coffin immediately if I was a juror.
I just got off work so am trying to catch up on what has happened today but it sounds like they've been covering the detailed questions I had. The ones that would put the nail in Casey's coffin immediately if I was a juror.
donna723
Well-Known Member
If by "redeemable" you mean that there is some tiny little spark of good inside of even the worst of them, that's probably true. That's like saying that Hitler was good to his mother.
But if by "redeemable" you mean that even the worst of them are salvagable, can theoretically be rehabilitated, can be turned around and become decent, honorable, productive, responsible citizens, I really have to disagree. I worked in a Close Security prison for 24 years, seen some of the worst of the worst, and that just doesn't happen.
But if by "redeemable" you mean that even the worst of them are salvagable, can theoretically be rehabilitated, can be turned around and become decent, honorable, productive, responsible citizens, I really have to disagree. I worked in a Close Security prison for 24 years, seen some of the worst of the worst, and that just doesn't happen.
Malika
Well-Known Member
I guess I mean simply that everyone has the potential to be redeemed; not that they will be but that they can be. I understand your pessimism based on your experience. I accept that most of the time hardened criminals, for want of a better phrase, don't change. Very occasionally, they do. Just seeing and acknowledging that possibility seems important to me.
