Fear of gangs???

klmno

Active Member
I plan to look them up- and you might be right about difficult child being overly concerenced, too. For me, I think about things like them shooting someone over a stupid bandana color or a number or gesture or a kid acting like he was in a gang when he wasn't and I guess that seems soooo stupid to me that if they'd kill over that, what would they do over someone stealing their list of stuff? I have no idea what a typical gang would do over something like that-

I'm trying to get up the gumption to go visit him this morning but it's supposed to be about 33 degrees and I really don't want to stand in line for 30-40 mins outside, even with long johns on. But if I actually make it, I'll ask him to ask around and see if he can find out how real this concern should be, too.
 

DDD

Well-Known Member
Hope your visit goes well and that your long johns protect you from the weather. Also hoping that difficult child has figured out to keep a low profile prior to his release and is focusing on the new exciting possibilities for him that are coming soon. Hugs DDD
 

klmno

Active Member
Good point, DJ. I don't think he's viewing anything about this release as something to look forward to right now, DDD.

I visited and between him venting and talking about football they are betting snacks on, I got a little clearer info. First, the guy in the GH is the one he actually stole from (the gang member). I asked if difficult child wouldn't have just as much risk at home as in GH and he said no. Secondly, he started out just telling one staff person that he trusted but that person is on his treatment team and had difficult child bring it up to the entire treatment team- so now they all have to report to their individual supervisors. He's beside himself about the whole thing.

On top of that- re the candy issue- he wasn't written up- he says if he'd been written up, he'd only gotten a couple of days without privileges because it's a minor charge- it wouldn't have set his time back. He says after this issue came out with the treatment team (both the gang concern and the candy issue), then they decided to set him back in the anger management course which he'd been scheduled to complete next week. Now he has to wait until the "junior class" of anger management gets to their 10th week and then pick up with them, to complete 5 more weeks. So who knows when he'll get out. He got defensive when I asked about him getting in trouble now and also in Nov., 3 weeks before he was supposed to get released then, too. He said several staff have asked him if he's self-sabatoging. I don't know what will end up happening- probably just waiting a lot longer for him to go to GH for a long time but who knows- between those letters I setn, this stir up over the stuff at Department of Juvenile Justice and the gang issue, a lot of higher ups will be looking into it. Still, they'll probabaly use this to justify backing up PO.

Oh- and he could have appealed the decision to be put back in the ang man course but he didn't because he said they told him this would give PO time to reviwe his placement- I said difficult child, PO isn't reviewing your placement- and about that time it dawned on him that they just told him that to agree to it without appealing. I told him to put a grievance in over that. Staff in Department of Juvenile Justice used to be good for not lying and manipulating like that- they stuck to the rules about telling the truth re policies, punishments, etc, but I guess they have gotten just like the POs now.

Also,difficult child said the director and admin staff (higher up) have changed within the last few mos and a few parents are writing the GA, the director and all over the place over the same koi I am. Apparently, they are trying to change policies and rules lately but they aren't going about it right so it's resulting in inconsistent charges and punishments in the actual facilties. It sounds like one big mess all thru Department of Juvenile Justice at this point- difficult child one staff person came in last week and said the whole place was a disaster witing to happen.

Really- the whole Department of Juvenile Justice seems like a mess and I just hope some higher ups- even higher than the director- investigates and gets some changes made. That would be a lot easier if the state had an independent IG- of course who knows how long that will take since it was approved in the GA last year and still hasn't happened.
 

buddy

New Member
Can you start a yahoo closed group and ask difficult child to tell his difficult child Department of Juvenile Justice friends to tell those parents to hook up with you???
 

klmno

Active Member
I don't know that any of his Department of Juvenile Justice "buddies" have parents I want to know. He has tried to team up with people who are a lot more street wise than he is in order to survive and honestly, they don't come from backgrounds that lead me to think I would even know what to say to the parents. Now, I have met parents waiting to go into visitation that seem similar to me and we chat a lot sometimes- when I ask difficult child if he knows their son, he usually says that he knows who the boy is but isn't on his unit or doesn't know him well. And some of them have no parents around at all.

I just checked job listings for gov positions in my prof and go figure- they opened one new one up to the public and it's for this area. LOL! I applied for it but I'd really like to get out of this area. I am stressing to difficult child to just get his rear out of incarceration because it's much easier for me to work around getting out of this area and trying to get him home sooner. My words seem to be falling on deaf ears right now though.

A judge could order immediate relase from GH, like they can (and have done) from a detention center but nobody can do anything realistically to fight a PO as long as difficult child stays in there.
 
H

HaoZi

Guest
I think I'd also make sure he doesn't accidentally look like he's wearing the colors of opposing gangs, either.
 

donna723

Well-Known Member
k, I don't know if they have this in the juvenile system but in the adult system inmates are allowed to file what is called an "incompatible" against another inmate. They can do this for any number of reasons ... if the other inmate is someone who has victimized them before, is a relative or close friend of a victim, if the two have a history of violence between them, or a situation like your son has ... any good reason why the two inmates should not be housed in the same general area where they would have access to each other. Of course, they have to keep it within reason, but once it's approved, the system can NOT transfer them to the same place as the inmate they have the "incompatible" with. They may not have this in the juvenile system but it's worth checking out. This is really what he needs.
 

klmno

Active Member
Ohhh...they do have something similar in the faciltity- I don't know if PO is knowledgable enough to apply it to the GH, even if it applies here for juvies. Now where difficult child went wrong, in my humble opinion, is not waiting until he got out then acting surprised and bringing this up after he was at the GH. He seems to be sooo resistant to go to GH at all- I'm thinking he's going to GH. Period. But he could have a better chance of getting home quicker if he'd quit making waves there. This reentry/local agency has 2 GHs. I fought to get difficult child in this one due to it being closer to me and in the sd that helped him with his academic goals the most. He's so concerned about the gang koi that he says he'll go anywhere except this GH. That might lead him to just being placed in the other GH, further from me, and blows even more educational opportunity.

thank you Donna for bringing that up though- PO was blowing it off and I knew that couldn't be right when it's gang related. They just don't do that here, for juvies anyway.

Right now I'm wondering if it goes against their regs to set him back in his ang man and time to be released for something that he wasn't written up for. Can they dish out a punishment if he wasn't written up? The more I think about that- me writing the complaints that included PO not having things done in time, it sure seems convenient that now difficult child has more time incarcerated but they didn't think it was worth giving him a charge over it. This is what I mean though- the whole thing is out of control- it seems like these people are just doing whatever they want and ignoring any policy, regs, rights, anything.
 

donna723

Well-Known Member
I don't know why but I keep getting the feeling that he's not telling you everything! People in gangs write each other all kinds of letters and notes, they all have their own little codes and symbols for everything. But why on earth would he steal something like that? What good would it have done him and what was he intending to do with it? Something just doesn't sound quite right here ...
 

klmno

Active Member
Oh he's definitely not the most honest with me! According to him, (and keep in mind here that he has his issues with "guys" in general because he's felt like he doesn't fit in to groups of guys since he was raised by a single mom)- and there are going to be gaps in this story because he hasn't revealed the "in between"- that particular gang and another particular gang are rivals. I don't know if this was a new gang member or just a new member who ended up in Department of Juvenile Justice- but the guy had been obnoxious and somewhat aggressive or threatening to some other boys in there including difficult child and difficult child says he saw the boy leave a folded piece of paper in a concrete block or somewhere and he had heard runor that they were going to start a riot in a couple of days so he swiped the piece of paper. What it turned out to be was the list of leaders, secret "codes" or something along those lines, and the rules of the gang. He then gave it to another kid, apparently thinking he'd make a friend or get defense that way, and that kid ran his mouth. When the riot happened, the boy that had written and left the paper (meaning it to be picked up by a fellow gang member) started antagonizing difficult child, even though that really had nothing to do with the original intent of the riot. difficult child wasn't going to take it, stood up and starting fighting back and the fight got pretty bad. That's his story.

Part of that has to be true because over the summer, when all of them were locked in isolation about 6-8 weeks, the gang staff person talked to me without difficult child being around and was trying to find out if he was a target, trying to be a member of a gang, or what. I didn't know much at that point but told her what I knew and stressed to her that if difficult child was becoming too close with any gang, I wanted to be notified. I never heard anything back from them.

difficult child told me today that he has a contact in near our jurisdiction that will help him get out of here if it "gets to the point that he feels seriously threatened in an immediate way" and all he has to do is call the guy- it's someone who used to be there, incarcerated with difficult child. What I think is that the boy who "recieved" the info from difficult child is here in this locality or got difficult child connected to someone who is and that was a boy who used to be a room-mate (for lack of better term) with difficult child and tried to help difficult child with these other guys when they were trying to intimidate him- which is why he stole the paper and gave it to the guy to begin with. I don't know this for sure, I'm just trying to fill in those gaps based on difficult child's hx.

When I asked difficult child why he did it, he said "because I was stupid".

When difficult child was incarcerated the first time, he told me some of the colors and numbers and gestures that meant gang stuff and told me not to do this or that- the Department of Juvenile Justice staff even refused to let me take a friggin ink pen to an IEP mtg if the ink was a certain color. (Needless to say, this is when I decided gangs are stupid.) And difficult child told me that they do pressure boys to join one or another in a locked facility- it's a matter of survival. However, I am sure that at least throughout that first incarceration, he did not join one. I'm concerned now that it looks like he probably has an affiliation to one but has not joined one- again, my speculation. I don't think he wants in one.
 

DDD

Well-Known Member
Geez, klmno, difficult child sounds like an Aspie. difficult child#2 gets his mouth running and just doesn't get that you have to monitor what to heck you say...and to whom you say it. I'm sorry that he seems to be making poor conversational choices. Gang or no gang you just "have" to learn to watch what you say. Sending hugs. DDD
 

donna723

Well-Known Member
He probably feels like he has no choice, like he has to pick one side or the other to have some kind of protection. It's a lot more likely that he took it to give it to a member of the rival gang to gain favor with them. For the record, I don't believe for one minute that he didn't know what it was or that there would be serious consequences if they found out that he intercepted it. He couldn't have been there as long as he has and still be that naive about the gangs and how they operate.
 

klmno

Active Member
True, Donna- he said he thought he could trust the guy he gave it to but that person told others and word got back to the gang he stole it from. I told him you can never put something in writing or tell someone something like that and think no one else will ever know. He wants so much to be able to bond with other males but he doesn't understand that no matter what gang members or anyone else says, boys this age just can't have that level of trust with peers- any peers. And yes, like always, he thinks he won't get caught but then he does. Still, I can't see a person having to be killed or having to...whatever they do...over doing something stupid like this at 16yo. He didn't grow up in that type of environment and while he must have known to take gangs seriously, he just doesn't get how bad that can get- except it might be soaking in now.

You lost me DDD- it wasn't him running his mouth that got him intop this. He doesn't go around mouthing off at people....well, he mouths off at me sometimes but not in there.
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
Well this is jail. As Donna can probably attest to...whites and maybe Native Americans can associate together, AA's keep to themselves, Latino's and Natives associate together, gang members associate with their gangs, and sexual perps better hide. You dont cross lines when incarcerated. It doesnt much matter if you have family at home that is completely racially diverse. In prison, if a white person sits with a black person, they are likely to cause a riot.
 

donna723

Well-Known Member
Another thing too, most of the gangs mentioned are strictly one race or another. It would be very, very rare for someone of another race to be accepted in to an established gang. The Bloods and Crips are all black, and around here we have another one, Gangster Disciples, also black. The Latin Kings are all hispanic, and the white supremacist groups like the Aryan Nation are all white. It's almost unheard of for these groups to accept or even associate with someone of another race.
 

klmno

Active Member
That might explain a lot of difficult child's motives then- he's never been prejudice against any group/race. Maybe at first he didn't realize he "wasn't fitting in" because he wasn't a particular race. Maybe when he saw that a lot of it depends on race, he decided he wasn't joining any gang- he's always said he had no interest in it.
 

DDD

Well-Known Member
difficult child#2 wanted (and still wants) so desperately to "fit in" that he "shares" his thoughts with-o analysis. In fact, sad to say, he will start conversations about gangs because he thinks that makes him part of the in group. Sigh. He also trusts people who give out any positive signal..or what he perceives as a positive signal. I projected a bit, sorry. Obviously I don't know your difficult child but he does sound naive. Taking a paper from someone for questionable purposes (probably out of curiousity or possibly to feel like a player), sharing with someone who he believed he could "trust", then subsequently sharing his concerns with a boy that he hopes will protect him in the future. That kinda "rang a bell" as choices that #2 would make. He has no street smarts and pretends he does. I didn't mean being a blabber mouth or "a rat" just lacking the social skills to read the environment and situation to keep a low profile and avoid problems.

Whether my read is on target or not I feel compassion for your difficult child. It truly is heartbreaking that he has faced confinement/punishment instead of having the help you fought so hard to get for him. It makes you wonder for many thousands of adolescents have compounded emotional stress in lieu of treatment that would make their lives and society's lives so much better...and cheaper. He is fortunate to have a Warrior Mom who will continue to provide guidance and love. DDD

PS: This may not be an appropriate "share" but it certainly was a head shaker. difficult child#2 was at a local club a few months ago (he is 21 going on 16, sigh) and sat down with a guy he very very vaguely knew.
He started talking about gangs and told the guy "the Bloods live around here and they wear red to identify themselves". The guy pulled out a red bandana and said "Like this??" Yikes
 

donna723

Well-Known Member
Honestly, the best way to keep out of trouble in a situation like this is for him to keep a very low profile ... which will be hard for him since he wants so badly to be accepted. And are these really the kind of people that he wants to "fit in" with? He should keep his mouth shut, follow all the rules, stay out of trouble, mind his own business, avoid becoming involved in any disputes, just become as "invisible" as he possibly can until he get out of there. He needs to just stay completely off the radar for the time he has left because what he's doing now is totally "shooting himself in the foot". I've seen guys who you would think could never survive being incarcerated but who managed to do very well by taking this course of action.
 

klmno

Active Member
DDD- your explanation makes a lot more sense than what I thought you meant- yes, my son does have some of those characteristics. He might be a tad more street wise in some ways now though.

Donna- I agree whole-heartedly but there are no kids difficult child is incarcerated with that I'd like for him to fit in with and since he's been incarcerated for so long, it just isn't feasible for him to stay by himself day after day- he's going to try to have "friends" and fit in. The staff even give kids a hard time if they don't- the first time difficult child was sent to Department of Juvenile Justice, staff egged him on by saying "what;'s the matter- do you think you're too good to be here". difficult child says he finally broke and joined the crowd.
 
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