Finally threw down the gauntlet....

[DDD]

Way To Go, Mickey! Like most of us, I bet you and your wife thought you
would be previewing college campuses instead! Meanwhile each day
remember to thank God that he is alive and can still turn it around...maybe not this week, month or year...but like your Mom
he can do it! DDD

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I think you all are doing exactly the right thing! Best wishes, I hope difficult child sees the light.

 

[everywoman]

Mikey---I hope that you and your wife are willing and able to remain warrior parents. It will not be easy. Detachment, letting our children face their demons head on, without any softening of the blow is not easy. I have been hard on my difficult child---it hasn't changed him---but it has changed me. I no longer feel responsible for his choices---I can still "like" him and not like his choices---I can let go and let natural consequences take over (like sitting in jail for 23 days). But...don't think it won't hurt. It will. Don't think that everyday you won't want to do something to "help" him---you will. You only "help" when he takes a step forward. When he steps back, you step back and let go again. It's the only way to survive this disease called addiction.

 

[Mikey]

Well, maybe something's up...

Haven't even had a chance to discuss the ultimatum yet, but he's definitely NOT been included in an "normal" family activities since Friday.

The weekend sucked, but as far as I can tell he hasn't been stoned once since Friday (must be a record), hasn't broken curfew, and even spent all afternoon and evening yesterday at two different pothead friends houses and came away sober. He even called to say where he would be, and called again to say he was going somewhere else (no, I didn't have a heart attack, but I came close).

This morning, he announced that he was out of gas. wife calmly replied "Oh, that's bad. How will you get to school?", and then went to get dressed. I'm sure he was shocked that we wouldn't give him money for gas when his very education was at stake! :crazy:

It was all wife could do to remind him that if he didn't spend so much time playing taxi to the Pothead Posse, he wouldn't be out of gas (and it's 3.15/gallong here - having mooching pothead friends can be sooooo expensive LOL). But, she took the better path and just let him stew about it for 15 minutes or so while she dried her hair and chatted with our daughter about the new cute guy in her class.
:devil:
He waited for her to break down for about 5 minutes, then left the room. About 10 minutes later, she sneaked downstairs and put a fiver under his medications. That's just enough to get him to and from school and work for the rest of the week (he gets paid on Friday).

She then went and told him to get his skinny rearend out of bed, downstairs to take his medications, go get some gas, and get to school. Oh by the way that five was going on the "loan list" he's been building up since he got sick and couldn't work.

Gone in sixty seconds....

wife thinks that he expected us to eventually break down and go running back to him like we always did. Not this time. Not ever again.

We still haven't washed any of his clothes (except underwear for hygene reasons), since he hasn't cleaned his room. At some point, his cute girlfriend isn't going to get near him; 20 minute showers and Axe deodorant wont compensate for clothes that haven't been washed for weeks....

He's still not talking to us, but I think he's starting to get the hint that something's different. I may postpone our "what's your choice" discussion for another week or so, to give him a chance to see that we're for real.

Oh, and as of last night, he's still planning to start the clinical study. THAT will be interesting.

Mikey

 

[DDD]

Way To Go, wife!!
DDD

 

[KFld]

I know it would have been extremely hard because he probably wouldn't have gotten to school, but by putting the $5 under his medications, now he'll play that as long as he can knowing you will give it to him. Give them an inch with anything and they take 100 miles. I think I would have said, well I guess I'm giving you a ride then, because you don't have any gas, and then I would have driven him in complete silence. The complete silence thing always had a huge effect on my difficult child :smile:

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KFld</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know it would have been extremely hard because he probably wouldn't have gotten to school, but by putting the $5 under his medications, now he'll play that as long as he can knowing you will give it to him. Give them an inch with anything and they take 100 miles. I think I would have said, well I guess I'm giving you a ride then, because you don't have any gas, and then I would have driven him in complete silence. The complete silence thing always had a huge effect on my difficult child :smile: </div></div>

Guess I'm not ready for the complete tough love thing yet. And to be fair, I haven't had a chance to have that all-important heart-to-heart "make your choice" conversation yet, either.

If I push too hard before then, he'll go into that conversation in full ODD overdrive (if he comes at all). I don't want that to happen, so for the next few days until we talk, we'll stay the course and give him a taste of what's coming, but without enough "oomph" to give him an excuse to get mad, give up, and act out.

I want him to come to that conversation understanding we're for real. And I also don't want his ODD triggered so that he doesn't even start the treatment program.

Sound okay? Or am I off base?

Mikey

 

[Suz]

Sorry, Mikey. I think wife sabotaged herself. She certainly sabotaged her message by going back on it and slipping him a fiver.

The lesson here is don't make statements you and wife don't fully intend to carry through on. Karen is right- give 'em an inch and they'll take 100 miles.

He could have called someone for a ride, taken the bus, WALKED, etc.

Suz

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

I think he will know you for real if you SHOW you are for real. Big props to DWfor sticking to her guns as long as she did, but to be truthful, she undid everything she just did by giving him the money afterwards. In essence, it is like a kid crying for candy, being told "no, you can't have it" for 10 minutes, and then getting it anyways. The kid just learned that if he cries long enough, he will get his way. He probably drove to school snickering.

KLfd had a point, as inconvenient as it would have been, it would have meant a ride from a parent, in complete silence. Perhaps in a robe and curlers. THAT would have gotten the point across too. Or, let HIM figure out a way to get to school. What? He skipped school? Oh well. He faces the consequences.

Tough love is TOUGH. Unfortunately, you need to let go of trying to control whether or not he comes to your meeting in full blown ODD or not. You need to get your point across.

Hope I made sense.

 

[KFld]

Believe me Mikey, Until the day I asked my son to leave our house, I was the one who would have been saying no no no and then slipping the five under his medications., so I know how hard this is. I also know the damage I caused by doing things like that. What your son just learned though is that when mom asked how he was getting to school, she had every intention of making sure he got there, so next time he won't really worry about it, he'll just go and look for the Five in the same place it was left last time. The things you are setting into place are great and will get his attention, if you follow through on them. I know how hard it is to follow through, because until I started attending the parent alanon meetings, I found it impossible. Once you begin though, with a little practice, you can become an expert!

 

[DDD]

I am impressed with the verbal response that wife gave difficult child. The
five buck issue is separate but I didn't think she was "ready"
to respond with a detached tone. She's coming along. DDD

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DDD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am impressed with the verbal response that wife gave difficult child. Thefive buck issue is separate but I didn't think she was "ready" to respond with a detached tone. She's coming along. DDD </div></div>

I guess that's what I was trying to say. The letter on Saturday set the stage for the showdown - we told him it was coming. But we haven't had it yet. wife didn't feel it was fair to start hitting him hard with consequences when we hadn't yet sat down and spelled them out for him in black and white. That would have only justified his feelings that we act capriciously, and that we don't care what he thinks or feel at all.

But once we hash out "the future", and he chooses his part in it, then things will be much different. We just didn't want to spring this on him when he was told he'd have a chance to participate in crafting some kind of agreement with us.

Sounds like quibbling, but I hope it makes sense.

Mikey

 

[jbrain]

But Mikey,
when are you actually going to have this conversation? He is still in the driver's seat so to speak because you are so worried about his reactions and what is fair, etc. He knows very well that you care about him and his thoughts and feelings--he manipulates that to great advantage, that is his power over you. You are the parents, you get to set the rules, it isn't a democracy, especially with a difficult child kid. Yes, with a easy child kid they can participate and it can work nicely--you give them freedoms as they earn them and they respect that. A difficult child just does whatever he wants anyway--he recognizes no parental authority.

I agree with the others that wife undid the great job she did by giving him the five but of course understand why she did. This tough love thing takes a lot of practice and we make a lot of mistakes along the way.

I am so glad though that you and wife seem to be on same page now, that is great!

Jane

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

jbrain,

I am glad you posted this. I had something similar typed up and I changed my mind. I was starting to feel like I was picking on Mikey.

Mikey, jbrain is right. As long as you are in the state of "limbo", where the showdown has not taken place, difficult child kinda has the upper hand.

Have that conversation, and stop worrying about how he will react. There are 2 of you, one of him, you guys are on the same page and IN CHARGE. Whatever happens happens, and we will all be here for ya.

Big hugs and prayers!!

 

[rejectedmom]

Mikey, You and your wife are doing the right thing to say "Enough of this behavior! Get on the ball or face the consequences". You have come a long way and we all understand how you feel. "Am I being too harsh?" is a question all of us ask at one time or another. But the thing is, if you set a consequence you have to follow through with it no matter what.
If you don't you loose your credibility. Alanon, CODA & Parents Anonomus is a good place to go for face to face support. There is a learning curve with becoming a non-enabler. We all stumble from time to time, don't let it get to you. I am sure your son is seeing that you are comming to the end of your rope. He is going to play it out as long as you allow him to. When you no longer make compromises he wil see that you really truly mean business. I think your plan is a good one and I am glad your wife is comming onboard. It is harder for a mom to break the nurturing habits of taking responsibility for child to get to school and things like that. But she must ask herself when tempted to give in or compromise what the goal is and will what she is doing prolong the process. Hang in there you two have learned alot in a very short time. Your son is lucky to have two parents who care so much. -RM

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But Mikey, when are you actually going to have this conversation? </div></div>

Ah, well, that would have been about two hours ago. He gave me the perfect opening by informing us that he had a ticket to "Potfest", er, "RockFest", after I'd already asked him to wait and talk with us first before getting a ticket. He said his girlfriend bought the ticket, he wasn't going to waste it, and he was going no matter what. That was the difficult child/pothead type comment I was waiting for to start the conversation.

Boy oh boy, I guess I had it coming....

You see, in the past when we couldn't "talk" with each other, I'd write letters and he'd read them. Only this time, with the most important letter I'd ever written after a blow-up, he didn't read it!

Here I was, thinking that he was mad and upset that I'd finally told him he'd have to decide if he still wanted to be a member of this family or not. No, actually, he was just acting like more of a grunting neanderthal than usual. When I finally asked him what was wrong, he said "you all annoy me. Every [bleeping] one of you annoys the [bleep] out of me.

From there, the "conversation", such as it was, went absolutely nowhere. He flatly stated that:
<ul>[*]he was a pothead, deal with it [*]he was a 'smart' pothead, and could take care of himself without our help [*]the entire family annoys him like an ex girlfirend that won't go away [*]we're psycho, obsessive parents who are so far out of the "mainstream" of normal that we might as well be from mars [*] he'll change when he's damm well ready, and not before, and all our "pushing" only makes it more likely he WON'T change [*] no more talking. Take it or leave it. [/list]
So, all my carefully crafted attempts to set up a workable discussion was just farting in a hurricane. He's basically left it at open warfare. I didn't want it to come to this, but I guess it's about time to face the fact that he's not going to budge.

He has no remorse for how he treated his mother this weekend. He has no empathy for the fact that the rest of the family is tired of dealing with his drama. He has no concern for the situation because he can "take care of himself". All he wants is to be left alone to do as he pleases...

He actually had the audacity to suggest that we let him move in with the stoner family in the next neighborhood over (where he used to go an cook up his hash oil). I said "will they pay for your food, clothes, and medical insurance, since they're going to be your new guardians?" "Uh, no, I'd buy my own clothes, but if I stay home you have to pay for my food and insuraance, so what's the difference? I'd come over to eat and stay on your policy, but live over at "pothead paradise" (my words, not his).

PUHLEEEZE :hammer:

I couldn't even voice an answer to that, but he could see it in my face. It only got better from there.

Me: "Okay, if that's the way you want it, get your thoughts together and this Saturday we'll discuss your future living arrangements".
Pothead: "Are you kicking me out?"
Me: "Nope. Just going to change some things"
Pothead: "Then, do I get to do what I want and you leave me alone?"
Me: "Nope. You don't care what we think or feel, so I don't feel obligated to providing you with the easy, suburban, spoiled lazy white-boy lifestyle you've become accustomed to."
Pothead: "Hunh?"
Me: "Families compromise. They give to get. They sacrifice for others, so the others will then sacrifice for them. You don't want to sacrifice, so I don't feel the need to sacrifice either".
Pothead: "Hunh"
Me: "Think of all the things you have that you take for granted. Start with this filthy room, and continue down to MY fridge that you raid without a second thought. Think of everything we work our rear ends off to give you, and decide what you think you can do without".
Pothead: "You kicking me out?"
Me: "No. Just changing some things. Looks like we have a strange new tennant moving in, and I just want to make sure the rest of the family is taken care of and protected from this jerk".

Then I leave, with a parting reminder to be ready to discuss this on Saturday.

Geez. Don't know how this ended up this way, or where it will go, but I'm truly at the end of my rope. He's not an "addict", but he said with a straight face that "pot was one of the most important things in his life - more important than me or his mom.

"OK", sez me. "Keep that in mind on Saturday when we're talking about your future living arrangements".

Sober for 15+ years, but after that I could sure use a stiff one.

Mikey

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

Mikey,

I hope you get to a meeting or call your sponsor. It would be awful if you relapsed over this.

by the way, you did great. Just be ready, I can tell the future: He will be doing everything in his power to get you to kick him out. This way, A-he gets to leave, and B-it is your fault.

Do not let him back out of this showdown. Hang in there, you and wife are doing fantastic! Hugs to both~~

 

[PonyGirl]

Well Mikey, it sure didn't go as you had planned. Just so you know your difficult child is not unique, let me relate what my difficult child once said to me:

"If you had just given me money and let me do what I wanted, none of this would've happened."

He was in juvie-jail at the time. Those words galvanized in my mind, there was never going to be anything I did that was going to change him. He was going to have to decide to change.

Your son's words rang familiar. It's not a good place to be as a parent. I guess at least now you know where you stand, which is pretty much on the opposite side of the line he's on.

(((Hugs)))

Peace

 

[Mikey]

Kitty, re: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">by the way, you did great. Just be ready, I can tell the future: He will be doing everything in his power to get you to kick him out. This way, A-he gets to leave, and B-it is your fault. </div></div>

Funny you say that. After his first few sessions with his now former therapist, the doctor said the exact same thing - about 9 months ago! doctor said that difficult child would eventually work the situation so that we kick him out, and it will be our fault, so then he can "get mad" and act out with a clean conscience (even then, I guess he suspected ODD along with the ADD and SA).

Not going to do that. There will be rules, and they will be followed, or there will be consequences. Not going to kick him out, but if his life "sucks" now, wait until he only has a bare room, no computer, no car, no cellphone, no phone in his room, no more money loans, and a normal curfew that will get the police called if he breaks it, runs away, or does anything that I think is illegal or puts him at risk.

If he leaves, he's going to leave because he chooses to leave the family behind. I'll be damned if I give him any valid excuse to justify his self pity. He follows the rules (and they'll be fair), or suffer the consequences, or leave.

Strangely, I now feel both a mixture of anger and relief. Is that sick or what?

Mikey

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

No, I can understand it fully.