Finally threw down the gauntlet....

[jbrain]

Hi Mikey,
I, too, fully understand the mixture of anger and relief! I think you need that anger to do the detaching thing and the relief comes from having made a decision and standing by it. It is so awful when you don't know what path to take and are worried that you are doing the wrong thing.

One thing to watch out for--if and when you are no longer angry it is easy to feel sorry for them and let down your guard or feel you are being too harsh and they will hate you forever, etc. That's the dangerous time for us parents, when we are no longer mad and feel bad for them.

I'm glad you have seen difficult child's true colors--he really let you know what he is thinking and feeling, didn't he?! My dtr was also very defiant, she actually did start leaving and not coming home when she was 17. Since that is illegal in my state I had to have her on a PINS (person in need of supervision) and report her missing each time she left and I didn't know where she was and she didn't come home. Of course, I actually knew where she was, she was downtown with her druggie friends. Anyway, since no house rules or consequences (taking every item she supposedly treasured away) made a bit of difference to her I had to let her probation officer and the police enforce the consequences of a 17 yr old disobeying parents' rules. I told her she would eventually have to pay the consequences but she didn't believe me. After several months she did get arrested and court ordered to drug treatment. She still drinks and smokes pot now but I think she no longer does hard drugs though I wouldn't actually know since I haven't seen her in some time.

Good luck and please keep us updated! You are doing a great job!

Jane

 

[Mikey]

PonyGirl, re: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"If you had just given me money and let me do what I wanted, none of this would've happened."</div></div>

That's similar to what he said to me as well. He tried to convince me that we were "psycho", and that all his friends and a lot of adults who know us think the same thing.

"Friends? You mean your stoner friends whose parents allow and condone their pot use? Boy, I sure can see why that group of highly functional people would see us as 'psycho'"

He went on to tell me that his friend B has parents more strict than anything we ever dreamed of. B does everything they ask, and is a "happy member of their family"; he cleans his room, washes the dishes, mows the grass, and helps with the family chores. Hangs with the family unit, and everything is happy.

B also smokes so much weed that, were he to stop smoking, he has enough THC stored in his body to stay high for a month. He's also dumb as a bucket of rocks because he goes to school stoned (when he goes), and has been socially promoted even though he can't pass a test. He also hasn't kept any job longer than two weeks because he can't make it to work on time (if at all). But hey, his family is "happy", right?

Anyway, you can see where this is going. I said "you're talking about the same crackhead parents who wouldn't take B to the hospital for a broken wrist because he wanted to go skateboarding?" "Yep", sez himself. "Okay, I guess what you're really saying is that their whole life his happy because they sold out or gave up and condone his substance abuse; in return, they get a happy, no-drama home life".

"Yep", says Sir Pots-a-Lot. "Isn't that what this is all about? Aren't you upset that family life sucks because you're psycho over my using a little weed?"

"Uh, so you want me to sell out and let you smoke pot? Not care where you go, who you're with, or what you're doing? And in return, I get a 'happy' family life back? That's what you're saying?"

"Yep" says Mr. WeedyBrain. "It works great for all the rest of my friends."

At that point, I didn't know what to say other than "Did you get some bad crack?". In short, I told him that he'd manage to build a group of friends from the most dysfunctional people he could find in our little town. Even if they were all the same, they aren't "normal", and I wasn't going to become like them so HE would think I was "normal.

I followed with the fact that it wasn't about trying to minimize the drama in the family, it was about trying to do the right thing FOR HIM. I wasn't going to let him take my love and concern for him and twist it into some sick, selfish desire I have to dominate his entire life, and then let him use that demented (and inaccurate) assumption to justify his acting out.

You can guess the rest.

So, that's it. Truth be told, difficult child's taking a cue from his older brother, who was (and still is) addicted to computer games. For a long time (years), he would spend hours on the computer, then come away grumpy and irritable. We had battles over that like you wouldn't believe. But eventually, Son 1 realized that it was his behaviour towards us after his marathon sessions on the computer that bothered us, not the fact that he was a geek.

When Son 1 realized that, he started to change how he treated us. It took him time, but now he's an absolute joy to be around. Still a geek, but he's also adult, responsible, caring, thoughtful, and with a fire in his belly to make something of his life.

Trouble is, all difficult child saw was that for two years Son 1 acted like a thorn bush, we left him alone, and he got to do what he wanted. Worked for his brother, so now he's doing the same thing (he even admitted to this). I explained that there was a BIG difference between finally letting his brother go on the computer to keep the peace, and letting HIM go out drugging, partying, and generally breaking the law to keep the peace.

Ah, logic. Works so well for a pothead teen, until it doesn't. Then the ODD goes into overdrive, the testosterone poisoning sets in, and nothing else gets accomplished.

Buckle 'yer seatbelts, folks, there's a bumpy patch ahead"....
:grrr:

Mikey

 

[rejectedmom]

Mikey I am so sorry that it came to this. Your son is definately an addict wheather he believes it or not. Where is he getting the money for his drugs? Does he work or is he on allowance? I think it is time to stop giving him any cash whatsoever. Not for lunch money nothing. When they are at this stage they will forgo the purpose of the cash given for necessities and buy drugs. So inadvertently we parents end up purchasing the thing we are trying to make them stop doing. I am saying this from personal experience. Also keep your credit cards and wallet locked up. That is the next progression for a kid deprived of his spending money. You say the battle is on and I totally support you in that. But please be aware that when they are drugging they have no conscience. Don't allow yourself to be further victimized by his drug behaviors. This is a hard battle to enter into. Be prepared for things you would not believe your son capable of. They tend to esculate when they realize you are standing your ground. -RM

 

[KFld]

"sir pots-a-lot weedybrain"

:rofl:

I think you have a good plan as far as not being the one to throw him out. Give him the rules and if he chooses not to follow them, then he's making the choice to leave! I think you need to word it that way in your little discussion. These are the rules, you need to follow them to live here, if you don't you are making the choice to leave, we are not making that for you!!

Like I mentioned in a post last week in regards to a chinese medicine in-service I went to at work, we learned that anxiety comes from indecision, and once you make a decision, there is no more anxiety. Do you feel any less anxious???? I hope so!!

 

[DammitJanet]

Mikey...

You are doing the right thing.

I cannot tell you how many times I have heard the stupid logic of "if only you had done x, y, or z or given me money this wouldnt be happening to me" from behind bars from my son. Hello...I didnt do the crimes and I am not the one who should be paying for them.

Did I ever hand him the pot or tell him to break the law? I dont think so. I keep thinking about how I should have been harsher to mine when he was younger and maybe I wouldnt be where I am today. Lord knows I tried. I really dont know what else I could have done though without killing him.

Keep up the good fight. It really can make a difference.

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where is he getting the money for his drugs? Does he work or is he on allowance?</div></div>

He doesn't get allowance from us, not for years. He was working, but he was sick and then changed jobs. While he wasn't working, we covered his "normal bills" (phone, car, insurance), but we paid them - we didn't give him money and he's in hock to us for quite a bit. He started working again, but lately it all goes in his gas tank.

Personally, he says he's never had to pay for weed, and I believe him. We live in a rather well-to-do county (10th wealthiest in the nation). While we aren't wealthy, we're surrounded by wealthy people. My guess is that there's a lot of weed "around", and since he's part of the Pothead Posse he can grab a bowl or two. In fact, he was getting as much as he wanted two years ago when he wasn't working and had no allowance. He said friends always shared.

Guess that's what happened recently during his money dry spell. It may also be that since he's the taxi for the Posse, they give him weed for driving them around. Regardless, money (or lack therof) has never stopped him from getting stoned. Even if we took everything away (including his car), made him quit his job, and locked up every valuable in the house, his "good buddies" would make sure he wouldn't do without (evidently, he's the life of the party that everyone wants around, so they "provide").

Important stuff in our house is already locked in a safe: jewelry, drugs, bonds, etc. But he's a weird bird; I've said before that he thinks he's a "smart" stoner, and he really looks down on the "stupid" stoners who get themselves killed, locked up, or otherwise in trouble. Stooping to theft to keep his habit going would be beneath that dignity. Before that, he'd probably just pack a bag and move out for good.

But then again, I sure didn't see this coming (although everyone else did :crazy:). In the future, who knows what will happen. So I will keep an eye on anything small, valuable, and easy to pawn or use. At this point, nothing would surprise me.

:rolleyes:

Mikey

 

[KFld]

[/img]). In the future, who knows what will happen. So I will keep an eye on anything small, valuable, and easy to pawn or use. At this point, nothing would surprise me.

:rolleyes:

Mikey

I'm really glad to hear that you have your eyes open to that possibly happening. I never thought my difficult child would steal from us, but believe me, he took everything that wasn't nailed down in the height of his drug addiction.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Mikey,

Ever thought of a career in standup? You've got some great material.

You're wise to be on guard. Sir Pots-a-lot may have been comped to his weed for services rendered in the past, but as his ability to render services wanes, so will the patience of his suppliers. I remember well the "my friends have got my back" attitude from our difficult child. She really believed in the "stoner ethos" share-and-ahare-alike, pals in adversity and all that. Only trouble is, when you've got nothing to share, the others get tired of sharing real quick. In difficult child's case the friends only had her back as long as long as she had a home, meals, clothes, and transportation supplied by us and didn't really make any demands. A place to crash for a night is one thing; showing up with your suitcase is another. Once you really throw yourself on the charity of the "friends" you find out how much they've really got your back.

So even though he's never had to pay cash money for weed, that's all subject to change. So definitely lock up your valuables.

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ever thought of a career in standup? You've got some great material.</div></div>

Humor is my coping mechanism. When I write, I see my own thoughts in black and white, and it's hard to escape the truths I record; so I intersperse humor in it to take away some of the pain of facing my thoughts.

It's either that or let the anger and despair take control.

Mikey

 

[CCRidr2]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It's either that or let the anger and despair take control.

</div></div>

Your humor keeps me from letting the despair take control. I see myself in your shoes in 5 or 6 yrs and hope I still have the humor left in me to help.

Many, many hugs and prayers are being sent for you and your whole family. (Sir Pots-a-Lot included) :flower:

Cyndi

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

Mikey,

You have no idea how much I am pulling for you & wife. And, in the long run, it is pulling for difficult child as well.

Don't you just wish you could grab them by the shoulders and shake them till they get it?

Humor definitely has been my saving grace as well. You go, boy.

 

[Ephchap]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> He's not an "addict", but he said with a straight face that "pot was one of the most important things in his life - more important than me or his mom.</div></div>

Sorry, Mikey. You can joke about it, write letters to your son, and talk until you're blue in the face ... but if you reread what you wrote above, you have to sit back and say HUH??????????

You're saying he's not an "addict" ???

I'm not sure what your definition of an "addict" is, but I think the words came right out of your son's mouth that define it ... when it becomes one of the most important things in his life - more important than his mother and father.

I know you don't want to hear it, so I'll let it go at that.

Deb

 

[CAmom]

Deb, I totally agree!

Since our son has been in his group home and been pot-free for seven months and has had lots of time to reflect back on the last year or so of his life (with the help of counseling), he is the first to admit that he was an addict and cared only about "getting high."

The fact that, because of his pot use, he was rapidly destroying his relationship with us and other family members as well as some of his friends, was quickly losing the opportunity to graduate from high school with his class, had been denied (by us...) the opportunity to take driver's training, and was losing out on the car we promised to buy him when he turned 18 bothered him terribly but simply just wasn't that important compared to getting together with his friends for that daily smoke.

He knows very well that all of the above doesn't apply to a "recreational" pot smoker, and that, as such he was/is an "addict." He's also aware that he has a real challenge ahead of him to stay away from all substances.

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ephchap</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're saying he's not an "addict" ???</div></div>

Sorry you didn't pick up on my sarcasm. I was paraphrasing Master McWeedie when he told me "I'm not an addict".

I know my humor has been a little dark and ascerbic, but I've not been in very good mood today. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
:slap:

My little pothead punk is most definitely an addict. The point was to highlight his claim of not being an addict with the sheer stupidity of his assertion that pot was more important than his parents.

There. Is that better?

:thumb:

Mikey

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

master mcWEEDIE!!!

ROTFLMAO!

 

[everywoman]

Mikey---my son got out of jail in Aptil after spending 23 days in lock down because one of his so called "pothead loser" friends stole his grandfathers checks and got difficult child to try to cash one. The "friend" is still living at home with his parents in "denial." My son plead quilty to a felony. Last weekend he met up with another pothead friend and was busted for minor in possession of alcohol. His addiction drives his actions. I have seen him go from "pothead" to xanex user to criminal in less than a year. I never thought it could get worse. We did all we could do. We did the counseling, the pysch hospital, rehab, recovery----Addiction is a terrible, horrible disease. Please maintain your wit and good sense of humour---you will need it in the next few years. Without intervention, your son will continue down his path and self-destruct. But, as most of us here, you are powerless to stop the madness----you can beg, threaten, detach, cry, reward, and sadly, none of it works until they want to change...Self-preservation is the key. Save you and your wife and your younger daughter. Your son will have to save himself at this point.

 

[gottaloveem]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
So I will keep an eye on anything small, valuable, and easy to pawn or use.

</div></div>



Lock up any DVD's you have, games,ie: (X-box,Playstation, etc...) Even the game systems,Old computer monitors, keyboards...

Sorry things are tough at home. Being tough on him is the only option he is leaving you.

Hang in there, we have your back.

 

[CCRidr2]

This thread needs to be archived for those of us that are going to be in this situation in a few years!

Mikey, YOU ROCK! Keep doing what you're doing.

Master McWeedie!! :rofl: by the way, I got the "He's not an addict" comment, we are Master Smartalecs around here!

Have a good day.

Cyndi

 

[Mikey]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A place to crash for a night is one thing; showing up with your suitcase is another. Once you really throw yourself on the charity of the "friends" you find out how much they've really got your back....</div></div>

Unfortunately, depending on how it happened that wouldn't be the case for my son. I've read elswhere on CD (I can't remember where) about a daughter who moved out into a commune-like setting (the poster called it "hippie-heaven").

In our little town, there are at least two "communal" pothead houses that I know of - and that my little cannibis clown knows of as well. One where the parents turn a blind eye to what's going on, and one where the dad is actively involved in using with his daughter. Both places are not only pothead party retreats, they are also places where vagrant potheads have been known to drift in, camp for a few months, then drift out again.

That's why I haven't pushed so hard that I force him out - I know exactly where he'll go (right into the lion's den). There won't be any other place for him to go that will take him.

on the other hand, if we make reasonable rules with consequences, and he just can't stand to live in the new Fourth Reich (otherwise known as Mikey's House), then he will have to abandon us. He will have to pack his stuff and walk out the door while the other four members of the family are still acting like a family.

And for him, it will be a permanent decision. He knows this, and has said as much. No matter how imporant herb is in his daily diet, he still wants some kind of life after HS (although he doesn't know what it is yet). And while he may go to these places to indulge, he's still a "stoner bigot", i.e. a hypocrite who looks down on most of the "other" stoners as stupid and incapable of controlling their drug use.

DOH! (Where's the Homer icon hitting himself in the head?)

So, if he leaves under his own power WITHOUT the benefit of any fake self-pity he genned up from us, then I doubt he'd go there. It would then demote him to being one of the "stupid" stoners he's tried so hard to distance himself from.

Ackkk. Not sure where I'm going with this, or if I'm making sense, but I think I'm agreeing with you (depending on how his exit plays out) Sorry.

Mikey

PS: I'll go ahead and concede, before someone else points it out, that maybe he DOES need to figure out he's just as stupid as the stoners he looks down on. I think that "superior stoner" attitude is his way of reconciling the fact that he's an addict, but "at least I'm not as bad as those guys".

 

[KFld]

"cannibis clown" :smile:
Do you lay awake at night thinking of these names now? They are getting funnier and funnier.

You definitly seem to seeing what is coming your way, and that is a good thing. Nothing worse then being blind sided!! I wish I had found this board before I knew my son was a heroin addict because I could have probably gotten myself a little more prepared. Not that you can ever prepare yourself for the shock of that, but I would have had the support and knowledge of people who had been there done that and it may have made it a little easier to cope with.