Help quick, please!

Discussion in 'Special Ed 101' started by hersheyb79, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. hersheyb79

    hersheyb79 New Member

    I just got a voicemail from the principal of my DS's school. Friday he was bad, he spat at a teacher and he kicked someone. husband had to go pick him up from school. Apparently the principal wasn't there...she was calling to inform us not to bring him to school on Monday because he is AGAIN suspended from school for 3 days. 3rd time this year.

    I'm so aggravated. What should I do? I thought being on an IEP was supposed to protect him from being suspended so much, but she keeps saying that they have to follow the conduct code regardless of the IEP...
  2. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    What kind of IEP is it?

    Onyxx has a BIP - Behavioral Intervention Plan - and even so, there are some lines she crossed that they would not tolerate.

    I think suspension is a vacation for being bad, personally...

    I say - call the principal in the AM, and ask for ISS... And... :hugs:
  3. hersheyb79

    hersheyb79 New Member

    We just signed his IEP for SIED. He also has a BIP. I'm so the middle of all of this someone just came to my door and served me with a summons for a stupid $700 bill from eons ago that I couldn't pay then or now, so they are suing me. Wow, what a magical Christmas this is going to be...
  4. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Are you up to 10 days yet? THAT is when things might change but definitely call for ISS. Does he have a Behavior Plan in his IEP as Step asked? If not, request an IEP meeting to put one together. THEY need to figure out how to deal with this but probably won't if it's not in the IEP.

    I thought the same thing but our principal was a real piece of work and just wanted difficult child 1 out of the school so he did the suspension thing for EVERYTHING regardless of the IEP and BIP. I can completely empathize with you. Has the IEP been signed and returned to them? that is the other question that comes to mind. If not, they aren't obligated yet.

    {{{{(((HUGS)))}}}} and GET AN ADVOCATE! Sounds like you just might need one.
  5. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    We were posting at the same time. My first question to them is "Did you follow the Behavior Plan?" If they did, apparently it isn't working and the team needs to meet asap to revise it. If they didn't, remind them he has one and that they need to follow it.

    Sorry about the summons. I am expecting some soon since I've been unemployed since June and Unemployment has run out.
  6. hersheyb79

    hersheyb79 New Member

    What is ISS?

    The hard part about the BIP is that he flies off the handle so fast that before they can blink, he's kicking or hitting. They don't follow the BIP anyway, but the times that he's being aggressive it doesn't really matter because he's hit before the can intervene anyway. I guess (according to husband, he's the one who picked him up from school) that DS got upset when they told him to clean up and he spat at the teacher, so when they tried to remove him from the room he kicked the counselor.

    Basically, we're getting no real help from the BIP because he is so volatile.

    They say that the are required to follow the conduct code, and according to the conduct code: "Assault upon a teacher or school employee. A minimum of three days suspension is mandatory."

    ETA: This will make 9 days. So he's not at 10 yet.
  7. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Ok since so many of us are going through this, let me first say....AAARRRGGGGGGGG!

    First, get an advocate if you can.
    Second, write a formal letter once again requesting a functional behavior analysis. If it is the same dummies that did it last time, sigh... then make sure you ask for the district to have specialists in your child's area do it from outside of your school. If they wrote pbis without doing this then they need to do the right thing this time. Research shows when a plan is made without the actual data, the guesses that teachers/staff make about why a behavior is being done are typically wrong. And the "go to" explanation is usually that the child wants attention or that they are trying to get out of work. Even if these things are true, it means that the child needs to learn to get attention in positive ways and the work needs to be adjusted and skills taught to be able to do the work.
    --an fba needs to define specific behaviors, then collect data about where it happens, what happens before the behavior, how it is dealt with and what the effects are. They can examine this plus his assessment to see if he has the skills to deal with things better, to see if he is escaping something, to see if they are triggering it or if anything in the environment is triggering it etc.

    --an fba leads to the positive behavior plan. This plan is not to eliminate behavior only, it is to teach skills so the child does not have to use the negative behaviors.

    ---how many days total are you up to after this. The district has 10 days to suspend if he is on an IEP for a pattern of behaviors...and then they must do a manifestation determiation. This will say if the behaviors are related to his disability. (usually obviously yes) and then they need to say, well then, the IEP and BIP is not good enough, his needs are not being met if this stuff is continuing. They must look at how to change it, accomodations, interventions, reinforcements, etc.

    ----they may say they can not meet his needs in that setting. Make sure you have an advocate. This can get sticky and you dont want him shoved somewhere just for their convenience. IF there really is a better setting that is one thing. If they just put all the kids wth behaviors in one place, that is quite another.

    If they are stupid enough to use up the 10 days then it is their dumb decision. The principal is wrong to say he has to be held to the school conduct code, you can amend his IEP to even reinforce this. I have in my sons IEP that due to Q's autism and acquired brain injury, he is unable to follow school and district conduct code as written. All discipline decisions will include the special educaiton team.

    I have to say, spitting is my red hot button, where I can really lose my temper with my son. But the fact is it is not serious bodily harm. a 3 day supension is going to do what exactly? He probably likes the days off, it punishes you, increases stress and anxiety in the home, and if he does hate it, it will make him more nervous about getting in trouble--then making it harder to behave. Any administrator that thinks this makes a difference does not read the research. IEP's are supposed to use evidence based methods, and suspension is evidence based to NOT work. They do it to make the appearance of doing something and being in charge. IN fact it makes nothing change. IF it would work, I am guessing he would have been "fixed" long ago right??? Maybe the first 2 or 3 times he was suspended. DUH. It makes me absolutely insane.
  8. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Hershey, are you sure your son isn't on the autism spectrum? The way he explodes when one activity ends and then being aggressive when touched to remove his are red flags to me. They need to work on an "activity transition" plan and other ways to get him out of the room. With difficult child 1, a count-down helps. Like "okay, 10 more minutes and then we have to clean up" and then 5 minutes later "okay, 5 more minutes and then we have to clean up"... get the idea? difficult child 1 had REAL problems with abrupt endings to activities and being touched.....NOT ON YOUR LIFE.

    If the behavior plan isn't working, then the TEAM needs to come up with something better. If they aren't following the plan and these things are happening, the are violating the law. Like I said before, I have soooo been there done that.

    By the way, ISS is In School Suspension. That way he is being "punished" but not vacationing at home for 3 days.

    More {{{{(((HUGS)))}}} going out to you.
  9. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Hershey, are you sure your son isn't on the autism spectrum? The way he explodes when one activity ends and then being aggressive when touched to remove his are red flags to me. They need to work on an "activity transition" plan and other ways to get him out of the room. With difficult child 1, a count-down helps. Like "okay, 10 more minutes and then we have to clean up" and then 5 minutes later "okay, 5 more minutes and then we have to clean up"... get the idea? difficult child 1 had REAL problems with abrupt endings to activities and being touched.....NOT ON YOUR LIFE.

    If the behavior plan isn't working, then the TEAM needs to come up with something better. If they aren't following the plan and these things are happening, they are violating the law. Like I said before, I have soooo been there done that.

    By the way, ISS is In School Suspension. That way he is being "punished" but not vacationing at home for 3 days.

    More {{{{(((HUGS)))}}} going out to you.
  10. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Not sure what happened there. My computer froze up and then it double posted. WEIRD!!
  11. buddy

    buddy New Member

    This is why a functional behavior analysis is part of the process. IT always seems to come out of the blue. The idea is to identify the triggers and patterns and then to use methods to avoid those triggers. IF he has troubles with transitions like that, then they could have gone thru the entire project visually. on a white board by him it could have said, first gather materials, 2. (listing steps to do the project one by one...) then last step clean up. I always had that on the lists I made for students. Then as each step is x'd off they visually see what will happen. IF the project is time limited then a visual timer should be used so he can see when it is going to be done. but if they find in the fba that a timer triggers anxiety they can use a count down like 5 mintues and then we are done class (showing a number 5 on a card, then 4, 3, 2, 1.... and sing a song or whatever routine they have for clean up. Things need to be made routine and predictable for difficult child's.

    NO they are not required to follow conduct code. The newest revision of IDEA specifically says that discipline for a child on an IEP can have individual consideration of the disability. That was put in specifically for kids like ours. They are either ignorant or choosing to ignore law and best practice. Look up online, discipline and IEP, functional behavior analysis etc. also look on t his site. I know I have and many others have posted links to fba and discipline codes. it is federal law.

    look on and also for samples of fba and pbis and also about the rules.

    so sorry the are doing this to you guys... yuck
  12. hersheyb79

    hersheyb79 New Member

    We aren't sure, I suspect Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)...we are having a terrible time getting our insurance to cover anything for him...and to be 100% honest, we are WAY in the hole money wise as it is (we owe about $5000 in back taxes that we have 10 days to pay or they will start garnishing husband's wages + this summons I just got tonight...). I can't work because I'm getting called to the school EOD to pick up DS as a result of violent behavior, and we have a 19mo who has cerebral palsy, so daycare is horribly expensive. The school says they won't provide any more testing. So I don't know what to do to get him a good diagnosis...

    I'll be honest, I LOVE my husband with all my heart...but I have considered divorcing him so that I can get husband medicaid. I am that lost as to how to help him because we can't afford to help him.

    At home we do like you're talking about. I've talked to the school about it, they say they'll do it, but I doubt they are. I know they are touching him, which they know sets him off. I know this because I was wrestling with DS this weekend and I grabbed his wrists and he said "that's how Mrs. H holds me at school." I about lost it. I understand they need to keep him and them safe, but I don't know how I feel about them restraining him, he is a kindergartner after all...

    Buddy, he's had an had a bunch of data on it, like meltdowns X% of the time, verbal outbursts X% of the time, etc...they are saying they aren't required to do anything else. They did another BASC on him, but our P-DR won't even look at it (seriously).

    I am at a loss. I am mentally exhausted from this. I am ready to quit. It sounds like they are going to do ISS, husband talked to the principal and she said she'd keep him in her office and see if he can be transitioned into the classroom later in the week. I don't know how I feel about that...but it is better than him raging at home because he is not allowed to play video games or be on the computer or watch TV because he's suspended.
  13. hersheyb79

    hersheyb79 New Member

    When I say they aren't following the are the things I mean:

    A para is supposed to meet us at the door to the school at 8am to give him a slow start to his day. She is regualry 5-10 minutes late...which means we are left standing around in the cold waiting. So he usually has started melting down before things even start. He gets upset because he would rather be standing by the door to his class playing with his friends than standing around the front of the school with me.

    I've asked for headphones for him to put on to block out noise when he gets overwhelmed. They said yes, never provided them. I provided some, they disappeared. I provided a 2nd pair, they disappeared again. I asked for another pair at the IEP meeting they said yes, that was a week headphones. Seriously, how hard is it. They don't even have computer lab anymore, so I know they have a bunch that aren't even being used.

    His materials aren't being refreshed on a regular basis like his peers, even though he goes though them at a quicker pace. An example would be his reading books...they provide 3 that the child is supposed to go though and read at home, the parent fills out a sheet on the reading and sends the books back. When daughter was in school, the books were replaced every time I sent the bag back. DS I have to call 3-4 times and each time I'm told that it's because he wouldn't read the books with the parent volunteer when he got to school.

    This leads me to my last is written into the BIP and IEP that he will never be in the care or instruction of a parent volunteer (there is an exception in there for a parent volunteer who is also employed by the school district, because one of his classmates is the child of another teacher in the school). So why is he doing his reading buddy work with a parent volunteer???
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
  14. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Wow. I am sooooo sorry you and DS are having to go through all this. I understand the frustration about the school district AND the finances completely. I have been there on both fronts (financial is only getting worse here too). I really don't know what else to tell you. You NEED to get an advocate asap before things get any worse. Since he is only in Kindergarten, I don't see things with the school district getting any better unless someone pushes their backs to the walls.

    An FBA is also supposed to list possible reasons WHY the behavior is happening, not just data showing how often. If the WHY isn't there, they didn't do an FBA. The school is not the one that does the diagnosing. You mention a "P-DR", is that a Child Psychiatrist? If he/she wouldn't look at a BASC then you need to find a different psychiatrist.

    I wish there were some easy answers but unfortunately there aren't. All I DO know is that you can't fight the school district by yourself, at least not since they sound a LOT like the one here. I was on the verge of getting a lawyer because they wouldn't even listen to my advocate or their own Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) specialist. The reason we didn't is because they caused difficult child 1 to go into such a DEEP depression that I pulled him out (after the psychiatrist ordered him "Homebound" for the remainder of the school year. That's how bad it got.

    You're being bullied by the school and your son is being set up to fail. But, without an accurate diagnosis, I am afraid they are not going to cooperate. I really feel for you and wish I could be there to support you. I have learned how to be a b**** with the school district and put up a good fight. I would LOVE to fight one for someone else. This infuriates me to no end!!!!!!!!!
  15. buddy

    buddy New Member

    You can tell I am sure that TeDo and I have some really close experience to this. I have done the headphone thing too....this school always has them, so we are good now, but the last school lost some expensive ones, with the noise cancellation. They also lost those battery operated massage things he loves on his head and shoulders, and a squish vest that cost 75 dollars.

    I finally gave them to the principal and told her to make sure the class had them and did not lose them. I told her I was holding her responsible for this because the fact was (and I did this in an IEP meeting so all witnessed it) THEY were supposed to supply these things because they are in the IEP. I even make them buy the gum now. If I feel nice I will buy extra but it is in the IEP and they are to do it.

    At the school he is in now they have bought extra, the sp ed staff really are desperate to help him (and themselves I believe, lol) so they bought a new weighted vest and some other sensory equipment.

    Yes, please get an advocate. They are breaking the law with your son and the worst part about it is not the right/wrong issue, it is that these things form who he is, how he views himself and it is just awful for him to have his self concept being affected by people who are not following his plan. Write down each day what is done wrong like that, the dates adn times of the para , the dates and times of the adult volunteers, what you give them and where it ends up....if lost what day did you find out, keep receipts. My lawyer also says to keep mileage. They are not doing thier job.

    So here is a question if this doesn't get better fast? Is there an alternative school? A charter school? (they still ahve to follow IEP's but some are geared for kids with special challenges while not being a true special needs school, just more accepting and individualized). Is there a way to open enroll in another district, might mean you have to transport but they still would have to follow the IEP. I actually moved, there was no time to fight the fight I needed to go through, and as TeDo said, same for her, the wheels turn to slowly to allow our children to suffer through the fight sometimes.
  16. hersheyb79

    hersheyb79 New Member

    They have talked about moving him to the school with the SIED class. At this point I'd like to try that because if he moves there they are required to transport him to and from school. If I move him out of district or to a charter school I have to transport, which means I will probably have to pull my daughter out of school and move her too. I feel like I put a TON on her as it is, and I don't want her to have to move schools if she doesn't absolutely need to.

    I understand what you are saying about them breaking the law...but I don't know how to get them to follow it. I am at the end of my rope. I ask for more testing they say that I am more than welcome to pay for whatever testing *I* feel he needs and other than that they have fulfilled their obligations under the law.

    So he is doing ISS for 3 days. husband is going to bring him to school this week to see if that has any affect on his behaviors. Part of me just wants to get the move over with. I realize that it might not make a big difference, but at least it is a teacher who is certified to deal with a child with an emotional disability, where right now he is with a teacher who openly admits she doesn't have the qualifications to deal with him (that's what she said at the IEP meeting).
  17. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Legally, they can't make you change his placement (to a special school) until they have exhausted their resources to accommodate him in THEIR setting. They can't skip "levels". In my case they tried to skip from a Level 1 (30 min a wk) to a Level 4 ("behavioral" school full-time). That is against the law. I'm not sure they've exhausted their options there but if you want to try the school, make them put ALL their justifications for the placement in writing, specifically stating specifically what he needs that they aren't ABLE to provide.

    It is up to you but I definitely wouldn't let them off the hook too easily. It will make it easier for THEM if you try to bring him back. JMHO. I am one that is always prepared.
  18. buddy

    buddy New Member

    I hear you. I know, sometimes it is better to move to a different school if he is not being treated right and they are being openly defiant about trying to help and do the right thing. But this is why an advocate is so important. They DO know what forms to file etc. NO, they are not finished assessing. Any child who is in special education and has a behavior problem must have an FBA done. They are not to do just any old generic behavior plan or consequences. So, what I did was put it in writing and tada! all of a sudden it was done. Even if he goes to this school, they should not be guessing at what is going on...they will always guess that the kid is just being oppositional, stubborn, seeking attention etc. usually (research shows) that is nto the case. Usually there are underlying issues, sensory, motor, language, skill deficits, etc. And the child can't possibly know that, they just respond in a way to get their needs and frustrations met.

    by the way, charter schools have the same obligations to provide Special Education transport as any other school in your district. If it is in his IEP then you will still get it. If you open enroll, true you may have to drive BUT if you find this place is not right and they again show he is not making progress, they must provide a placement that will work and if you decide as a team (and you can lead that charge) to go out of district. Often they have independent contract districts that have specialty programs and cover several home districts around their area. Just so you know there MAY be options if this does not pan out.

    I hope they do it quick too because this can't be good for his self esteem. Nor for your mental health! I totally feel you there.