I'm angry that women tend to get the custody even when they are not being their best

[pasajes4]

My oldest son got custody of his daughter. It took 5 years and thousands of dollars. The mother had left the state to live with another man and had left her with my son. It should have been an open and shut case against the mother. That just does not happen these days. I pray that the courts do the right thing in the shortest amount of time possible.

 

[SuZir]

Unfortunate fact is, that in custody disagreements the looser is always a child.

Any kind of amiable solution is usually better. Parents fighting over them is traumatising for the kids and should be avoided in almost any cost. And no matter how bad the divorce, children should not have to hear anyone bad mouthing their parent. Of course you are not doing that to your grandchildren, but it helps, if you are able to keep some objectivity and try to see the good also in your daughter in law. As mother of only sons I understand how that may be very difficult, but it would still be the best. And as would trying to encourage your son to look for some kind of concord in this.

 

[DammitJanet]

Yeah....its soooo very hard as the mother of the father...lmao. Boy do I know that one! Cory has learned his lesson with Keyana, Mandy and Cory actually have a paper they had stamped by a notary that says that if Cory catches her cheating on him, that he is leaving and taking McKenzie with him and that Mandy agrees with this. That Cory will get sole physical custody of the child.

 

[InsaneCdn]

And where is that paper kept? If it is at their house, then Mandy can just destroy it... even if it were in your safekeeping, it would be better.

 

[AnnieO]

MWM, the truth is that if a father seeks custody, he is more likely to have the funds to hire the better attorney and expert witnesses needed to obtain custody. The person with the most expert witnesses wins in a civil matter because the standard of proof in a civil matter is "preponderance of the evidence" - ie: 51% or more. The only question allowed in a Family Law court is "best interests of the child."

This is very true in many cases, but not all. Historically the man was the breadwinner, but the mother was considered more nurturing because she was home with the children. Things are changing there. TECHNICALLY it should be the best interests of the children but when you look at my stepkids... Not necessarily. So that leads to the next point:

Star's right about documentation. She'll lie. She'll say he's making it up, she'll say he forced her then distorted what really happened. Get independent confirmation of any concern that he is going to raise.

Independent witnesses are necessary. Even when things are documented they can be ignored or twisted. We had a court-ordered third-party website that we used - and still we were told we said X or didn't say Y, even when it could be proven - AND - the judge didn't want to see the site anyway, most of the time. Document the same way you would with a difficult child - and again, independent confirmation is key.

If you want to help your son get custody of his child, you need to not ever say a word against their mother to anyone who doesn't have a confidentiality agreement with you, because I guarantee it will come right back and bite you when they say "His support system is Grandma, and Grandma bad-mouths mom." Judges have somewhat of a clue these days that people should not disparage either parent to the child. This is a public forum, and if she gets a halfway decent lawyer they will find you here and use your words against you.

Absolutely. In face any child doesn't deserve to hear ANYONE disparage a parent (EITHER parent).

Unfortunate fact is, that in custody disagreements the looser is always a child.

The uglier it gets, the more the child loses. If civility is at all possible... It's best.

 

[witzend]

This is very true in many cases, but not all. Historically the man was the breadwinner, but the mother was considered more nurturing because she was home with the children. Things are changing there. TECHNICALLY it should be the best interests of the children but when you look at my stepkids... Not necessarily. So that leads to the next point:

If you haven't been personally sitting in court where the "breadwinner" man wants custody and the "nurturing" mother who has no money also wants custody, you probably haven't seen the reality of court in action. I'm not talking about a guy who gets $50 a week more than mom. I'm talking about a man who has substantially more money than mom and can significantly outspend her. In my own case I was the "nurturing nursing" mom and we called one expert witness. He was the working dad who had nannies and called 7 expert witnesses. Guess who got 51+% percent of the judge's attention, and guess who was the first woman in the nation to be court ordered to wean an infant in 30 days only because dad could provide a better living situation?

Let me assure you, once someone gets custody, that's it. You don't want to blow it the first time. MWM, cooler heads prevail. Don't let anyone see you or your son sweat. He can't get angry and lash out, it's a guaranteed lose for a father. He must be gentle and understanding, and so must everyone around him. If he isn't independently very well off, it's all he has to make his case.

 

[BusynMember]

Well, I haven't and would never say anything bad to my grandson about his mother. However, trust me, she has said plenty more online about all of us...lolol. I don't think he will get custody because she is starting to behave. She must have been told to stop the late nights and drinking. As long as she takes good care of my grandson, that's fine with me. They can share 50/50 custody as long as she is good to him. But I am going to keep my eye out.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Document, document, document.
Print out facebook postings, emails, anything else.
If you don't need them now, they may be needed later, when/if the pattern re-occurs.

 

[Stephmanietta]

I just recently went though custody issue with my 3 kids. I am the mother, the father got shared custody even though he was staying somewere that the kids were unable to do overnight visits. He somehow convinced the judge to allow him to take 1 of the children at a time, 1 night a week each.
It was a disaster, once a week he picked up one child in the late evening, and left the other 2 crying and upset that they didnt get to go. He would return them early the next day and was never able to do more than 1 a week.
He had a pretty serious drinking problem while we lived together and when I vioced concerns about his ability to care for the children I was told that if the kids were with me, a responsible caretaker, then he could do whatever he wanted to within the law, that as long as someone was caring for them while he drank it was not a concern!
I was shocked, but I would imagine that your son might run into something similar, as long as she is going out drinking while the father of the child is their to care for the child they may not care. Now if she were to leave the child alone it would be another story.
I beleive that the "unfairness" goes both ways in the courts especially now that they have been accused of being so hard on the dads, they seem to be bending over backwards to accomidate dads. In my experience anyways....please no throwing rotten fruit at me

 

[InsaneCdn]

Steph... I think one thing we all agree on is that the courts do NOT put enough weight on "best interests of the child/children"...

 

[susiestar]

I am so sorry that she is trying to hurt her child and your son this way. She sounds like my exsil in many ways.

You have gotten excellent advice here. The MOST important things are to document, document, document, to have a top atty even if the entire family must pitch in to pay for it, and independent witnesses who SAW and HEARD the things she does. He should check the bank acct info to see where she is spending. I would personally hve someone who is not a friend she knows of become her fb friend (a guy fb friend if possible - even if the person is a woman) and they should print pics of her doing things and of her posts. She problem won't show it to your son or you, so someone she doesn't know who sounds approvin g is the person to do this.

Please don't be doom and gloom. Keep as positive as you can, and let grandson stay as far out of things as you can. The biggest reason to never criticize or talk badly about your now-daughter in law is because he knows or will eventually know he is half mommy and half daddy. This means if mommy is bad then he is half bad at least. Kids think this way. It isn't easy, but keep talks about this out of his earshot and urge son to do the same.

I would be tempted to get one of those spy cameras that can be put on his clothes or a toy or that looks like a toy and send it with him when he is with mommy. But a private investigator would be a better thing, esp as far as the courts are concerned. the atty should have advice on this.

It is NOT automatically the mother any more. The courts in our state give shared parenting. Period. You must prove extreme abuse to get anything else. This is apparently the natiowide trend as the middle of OK is NOT the most progressive part of the country.

Above all else, get documentation. If now-daughter in law's car has gps, or if she and son have a joint cell phone account, son should try to check these. He can likely add gps tracking to her phone and check it online or via his phone to see where she is partying.

I hope and pray that the best thing for the child happens. I do think that not being able to contact his child is osmething the courts will frown on badly. He needs to make sure that now-daughter in law talks to their child whenever she calls, and maybe even start having their son call every night that he is with Daddy so that he can say goodnight to mommy. The court will like this, and documenting the times when she doesn't answer or the noise in the background is of a party or whatever, could be invaluable.

Son needs to figure out how to record phone calls, and to save all emails, etc... and keep super detailed details of what is going on.