Lord Mandy's Mother has ruined McKenzie!

[DammitJanet]

We have been keeping McKenzie maybe every other weekend for an overnight to give the kids a break but we got her today over my objections because Im sick. Tony just said he would keep her away from me. Idiot. Anyway, for the first time ever, she was absolutely spoiled rotten. She would laugh and play as long as he or Billy held her but the second you put her down in one of her many toys we have here for her...she goes to screaming. Try to lay her down for a nap...scream. Now as far as if we were giving her hands on attention she was fine its just if you tried to set her down. Not a thing wrong with than spoiled child and its not from Mandy and Cory, its Mandy's mother Amanda.

Amanda started keeping the baby last week for daycare because Mandy has to work. Now one would think Amanda would be fine with babies since she has 4 previous grandchildren. Its not like this baby is her first...but she is her first granddaughter. All the others are boys and from her older two boys. Amanda didnt have much to do with raising any of her children and even less to raising Mandy. Amanda isnt real bright. Her birthday was today and she turned 44. I said oh...I was 45 when I had my first little girl too. She said...why did you wait so long? I just dont understand why people wait so long to have kids? I had my first one when I was 15!

I was talking about granddaughter! She has met me. She knows Cory. She has met Keyana. How old would I have to be to have kids my kids ages and have started at 45!

 

[buddy]

I hope the baby will be ok with her. If she just started daycare there, and with the issues that have happened on and off at her home (who knows what happens when cory is not there??) and she is with you on and off...could she also be crying because she is feeling insecure? How old is she? Isn't she at that age where babies kind of like to cling to their people?

Just a thought, it is probably as you say, that she has gotten used to constant attention (I admit we did that to our first niece because of our selfish reasons, we just could not put her down...she ended up great, but yeah, she needed someone to rub her back to help her sleep for a long long time because we all did that (was my sister's first, first grand baby etc....so we all learned for the next ones!)). I hope the newness of it will wear off and grandma will start to let her be more independent when appropriate.

Sure hope you are feeling better Janet! And of course hoping the baby didn't catch anything...like germs are only on the sick person...not flying thru the air or on surfaces, sigh. These poops need to start listening to you.

 

[Hound dog]

Mickey can easily break the habit if her parents and you guys don't do the same thing. Of course, it won't be pleasant teaching her.

Of course while it appears Mandy's mom must have held her the whole time, it's quite possible the opposite was true and lil Mickey doesn't want stuck in such toys all day with no attention, so now she's fighting playing in the toys at all.

Either way, a major pain in the rear for anyone else who is caring for her.

 

[LittleDudesMom]

Janet,

wow, she sounds like a winner!

I agree with buddy, she's only been with grandma for a week and that doesn't make a spoiled baby. I'm sure there were some other things going on with McKenzie -- kids have bad days just like we do; something might have been off with her that she obviously couldn't communicate.

Doesn't lessen the impact daycare with someone like her other grandma will have in the long run though....

Hope you are beginning to feel better Janet.

Sharon

 

[susiestar]

I am thinking either Amanda never puts Mickey down or never picks her up - or alternates which would upset Mickey more than just either one. But a week is NOT enough time to 'ruin' a child. It just isn't. It may be that Mickey is coming down wth something or is having separation anxiety. Are there any options to having Amanda watch Mickey? Surely they would qualify for a daycare voucher through social services for her, couldn't that help get her into a GOOD daycare?

 

[donna723]

I really HOPE she's not carrying her around all the time, never putting her down! My sister-in-law was a stay at home mom and she DID ruin my middle nephew for a very long time by doing that! He's 22 months younger than his older brother. He was a sensitive, needy baby anyway and wanted to be held all the time, not easy when you have another toddler to care for too. He'd cry when she put him down so she literally carried that child around until he was well past two years old and their third child was on the way! She learned to do everything one-handed, cooking, washing dishes or vacuuming with her right hand while juggling him on her left hip! If she put him down long enough to go to the bathroom, he'd be crying and pounding on the bathroom door! Of course bedtime was a nightmare, trying to peel him off of her and get him to stay in his own bed! And going somewhere with out him was not an option. They had never been left with a sitter! So since the kids knew me so well, she started slipping out to a neighbors house in the evening while I stayed with the kids. He'd spend the first hour hiding behind a living room chair crying for his mother while I tried to entice him out with cookies or toys or games! He is now a 40-year-old officer in the Navy with two kids of his own so eventually he did detach, but it was along time coming. For a while there we had visions of her carrying him up to receive his diploma at graduation! Morale of the story ... if this is happening and doesn't appear to just be that normal "clingy stage", put a stop to it now before it gets entirely out of hand!

 

[DammitJanet]

She did start out as a very clingy baby who Mandy had to carry around in this sling thing attached to her. I dont know if you guys remember me posting about her crying with her formula issues but we did finally get the doctors to change her to another type and it seems to work better plus she has gotten older and is eating more table foods.

She never did take much to me even at my house. I figured it was because didnt do the goo goo ga ga stuff with her. I was perfectly happy to hold her and cuddle her but I wasnt going to walk the floors and act like she had me fooled. LOL. If she wanted to sit with me and play with some toys on my bed, that would work. It always worked with Keyana just fine. Keyana learned very young that grandma was the one who was pretty sedentary and when we were together we just sat together and played quietly and watched TV.

Amanda claims she doesnt have all the big toys like we have...the swing, bouncer, walker. My house looks like a day care center and we dont mind that at all. I dont think Amanda is letting her cry right now...not this early. Now that might be possible in a few weeks when things get old. I doubt she has much of an attention span and she is an alcoholic and the first time Mandy goes to get that child and her mom is drunk that will be the end of that. They want me to watch her but I dont know if I can. Its possible if she isnt this spoiled but if she is, no way. Mandy doesnt go into work until about 1 or 2. Maybe. Only issue is I do have doctor appointments and I dont know how my doctors would handle me having an infant with me. Also lugging a carseat around is heavy. I have a hard enough time handling my purse. I was glad when Keyana learned to walk.

Day care has closed their application process so you cant even apply anymore. They have no more money to pay. The place Mandy is working wont let her bring Mickey. Not even for the few hours she is working which is just the after school kids. I think that is dumb.

 

[TerryJ2]

Oh, dear. I hope things turn out all right. How old is McKenzie now?
One thing I noticed with-people who never put their kids down and who hand them things instead of making the kids reach on their own, is that the kids never do reach on their own. Nor do they crawl or walk. They have to learn it later (like 2 yrs old). And they cry and scream more than other kids because they haven't learned to self-soothe or problem solve. You have to put babies down occasionally, and you have to make them reach for things, or they will not learn to do it on their own. It fosters dependency.
Too bad Amanda doesn't seem to know that. Doesn't seem like she's the type who would take suggestions well ... not sure what to suggest.
I can imagine how frustrating it is.

 

[Star*]

I'm learning so much.....ROFL....(without the baby to come) hahaha. Or should I be ON the floor laughing WITH the baby to come? Or should she be IN that swing thing and me SITTING and laughing and HER laughing? Or do you put them in the swing anymore when they are new borns? LORD I don't remember. I better get a book. Do they have Grandmas for dummies. And a paper cover that says "SO you're an expert Grandma!"

 

[keista]

Sorry, I'm not seeing it. I'm seeing DD1 Can't tell you how many ppl warned me an criticized me for holding her too much. I HAD NO CHOICE! If I put her down she'd be crying. And trust me, I put her down and ignored her plenty so I could go outside and smoke. And I'd have two in a row sometimes and she'd cry the whole time. I get back in and pick her up? She'd stop immediately. It was quite the nightmare. Papoosing wasn't even sufficient, I had to have at least one arm around her.

You really think she spoiled the child in one week? Yeah, she's getting defensive saying she doesn't have all the fancy equipment because she's probably thinking that's why she can't put this child down for even 5 minutes. She thinks you all spoiled they baby and now she NEEDS the fancy equipment to keep her entertained when not on someone's hip.

 

[DammitJanet]

It happened in one week or well...we didnt keep her last weekend but the weekend before. But according to the kids she was fine last weekend. About a month or so ago I bought Mickey one of those things you put on the floor and it has toys that dangle from it and she is on her back and she reaches up for them and they make noises. She loved it. She would lay there for almost an hour just laughing as she pulled on each different toy and see what each one did. Then when she got in her walker we would put her musical toy on it with the mirror that lights up and plays music when she bats at it and she just got so excited she would jump up and down. This was two weeks ago. This week, she cried no matter what we did. If she wasnt in our arms or touching us, she was screaming bloody murder. Even putting her in the beloved swing in front of cartoons didnt do it for her. That used to always work. I know Amanda has some stuff that Mandy has taken over to her from her house but even Mandy doesnt have all of what we have because we get stuff for our house and they can buy their own.

 

[tiredmommy]

Could she be teething? The only time Duckie wanted to be held as an infant was when she was nursing and when she was teething.

 

[SuZir]

To be honest I can't see how being carried a lot would do harm to the child. In fact the studies I have seen about using lot of baby sling and carrying the baby seem to indicate that it in fact helps baby develop, not hinder and makes them more calm and lessens crying and fussing. Carrying without a sling may of course be harmful to the person doing the carrying (gives you back pain very easily) and it is also important especially with smaller babies that the sling provides good position to baby (some popular baby carriers don't.) Babywearing started to get popular where we live when my easy child was a baby and I had him in sling almost constantly. I in fact did all that baby sling, cloth diapers, co-sleep, nurse till two-years-old and organic food-rutine with him. He and also other kids I knew at the time who were carried with slings a lot all developed well and started to move early. I was also very chagrined that I didn't know about baby slings when the difficult child was a baby. He was colicky and needed to be carried but I couldn't carry him enough because of the back pain it caused. But I have to say that also his motoric and overall development has been fine if a little bit slower than easy child's.

 

[DammitJanet]

Okay, maybe I am just crazy but I assume that a parent is supposed to be allowed to have time to place a baby in a crib or on the floor to play for a little while without having to constantly be held. I know all my kids did this and Keyana was able to do this just fine. Maybe I was a neglectful parent but I expected them to figure out how to self sooth and entertain themselves from pretty early on. I dont mean shoving them in a room and forgetting about them but they should be able to be on the floor or in a play pen or swing while mommy is doing something else. And going to sleep by themselves at 7 and a half months should not take 4 hours.

 

[hearts and roses]

If she was fine and this is relatively NEW behavior, I think I'd be looking at constipation, teething or an ear ache. When easy child was an infant, she had non-stop ear infections and never ONCE ran a fever - it's not always necessary to have a fever, I know I didn't believe it either. easy child also never pulled on her ear. But lo and behold, at my wits end, I'd take her to the peds and she'd have an ear infection, usually caused by teething. Or she'd be a little constipated because it hurt her ears to push or she had fluid behind the ear drum.

I do not believe that a baby can be spoiled within a week or two just from being held all the time. Especially if she doesn't get held all the time when she's at home. You know, that almost allergic-like reaction she had to the formula could be a sign of allergies overall. Perhaps she's got a little allergy thing going on. difficult child was allergic to her own drool!!! I just think I'd be looking at physical reasons before looking at behavior at this point.

And if she is crying because she doesn't like being laid down, that could be learned behavior because she knows she's about to be ignored. Maybe Amanda leaves her on her own and figures she will just cry it out and fall asleep - could that be? I know LOTS of parents who do that because they think it will help the baby become more independent but really, it's neglect.

And why the heck are they leaving a baby with an alcoholic anyway?

 

[Hound dog]

In many modern cultures carrying your infant/toddler around all day is simply a really bad idea. It might work for a percentage of stay at home moms, but I think there are valid reasons why it hasn't caught on. Most women these days work outside the home. Having an infant used to being held all the time is really hard on both the infant and caregiver when mom returns to work. When I ran a daycare, I dropped babies that couldn't adapt because I am but one person and there were other children that needed my attention just as much.

Babies need to have ample time after a certain age to explore and learn about the world around them. That's sort of hard to do with mom carrying them around in a sling all day. And I'm sorry but I just flat out don't agree with co-sleeping. Too many babies rushed to ERs from smothering or falling out of the bed to suit me. Not to mention the breaking the child from the parental bed at a later date. Or the fact that the child is the one that ends up with all the sound sleep and the parents are walking around yawning with dark circles under their eyes.

My kids were lavished with affection / attention without needing to be held/co sleep. I got a decent night's rest and had plenty of patience. I could sit them on the floor to play while I did something else or a playpen when I had household chores that made it difficult to keep them out of trouble.

in my opinion (for what it's worth) there are those parents who are basically just there, you know they have the child, feed it and care for it but do very little nurturing encouraging ect. That is one end of the spectrum. Then you have parents who use the sling and the co-sleep and all that theory......and basically smother the child in their presence/affection/attention. That is the other end of the spectrum. Then you have those that have found a balance where they can continue to have a life along with their parenting and still give their children all the affection/attention/nurturing/ guidance ect without having to be attached to them every second of the day. I was in the middle. (I'm talking "normal" parenting styles, not abusive parents)

Mickey's mother works and goes to school. This means Mickey has to be able to adapt to the environment of her caregivers when not with mom.

 

[donna723]

I can see using the slings with a very small infant, but even they need to be put down sometimes. Certainly by the time they're a little bit older they need to be spending some time on their own. They need to learn to self-sooth, to amuse themselves, and to go to sleep in their own cribs. They need time to play on a blanket on the floor and have interesting things to look at. A colorful toy just out of their reach on the floor is a great motivator. I watched my grandson struggle to get up on all fours so he could reach a toy he liked ... he'd be huffing and puffing. It's HARD work being a baby but that's what starts them crawling and eventually walking. They can't do that if you're holding them all the time! Even as a very small infant, he refused to be held facing the person who was holding him. He had to be facing outward so he could see all the interesting things going on around him. Learning to separate from their mother and gain a bit of independence is a part of growing and maturing too but they can't do that either if you never put them down. It's not the same at all as putting them in a swing or a playpen and forgetting about them! How do you get anything done if you can't put them down? You'd end up like my sister in law who literally carried my nephew around until he was over two years old! And the more you carry them around, the more dependent on you they become. And what about people who have other children to care for? Far better to let them begin to separate a bit, explore on their own, and foster a little independence.

 

[keista]

Okay, maybe I am just crazy but I assume that a parent is supposed to be allowed to have time to place a baby in a crib or on the floor to play for a little while without having to constantly be held. I know all my kids did this and Keyana was able to do this just fine. Maybe I was a neglectful parent but I expected them to figure out how to self sooth and entertain themselves from pretty early on. I dont mean shoving them in a room and forgetting about them but they should be able to be on the floor or in a play pen or swing while mommy is doing something else. And going to sleep by themselves at 7 and a half months should not take 4 hours.

No, you're not crazy. Yes a mom (or caregiver) *should* be able to put a baby down to do housekeeping or just get a break. It doesn't always happen. Enter the world of difficult children! Seriously, I know I'm not the only one here to have posted that I was never *allowed* to put my child down. This didn't happen with son and didn't happen with DD2. The variable DD1. With McKenzie???? The problem is variable caregivers, but I think it's unfair to blame Amanda for spoiling this child when it really could be a problem with the child. This isn't a defense of Amanda, but McKenzie. How many of us had well intentioned relatives who accused us of spoiling our kids? If only we disciplined more or had higher expectations. Always *OUR* (caregiver's) fault.

Given she previously displayed these kinds of issues, and who the parents are, don't blame away behavior problems.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Two thoughts...

Much of this discussion assumes a neuro-typical baby. There's no guarantee that DJ's GD is NT. If not (I HOPE I'm wrong) then "normal" approaches don't work.

Much of what is appropriate is determined by the culture in which you live. There is no globally accepted development standard. Anywhere. It is all culturally defined. Small example: In lots of countries, babies are never put down on the floor until they are ready to walk - and they are not delayed in their walking, nor ability to do so. To hold or not to hold, to attach or detach or whatever... depends on too many factors to really make the call for anybody else.

 

[keista]

Much of this discussion assumes a neuro-typical baby. There's no guarantee that DJ's GD is NT. If not (I HOPE I'm wrong) then "normal" approaches don't work.

I thought that's what I was saying. I guess I just should have come out and said it.