Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Clare, Apr 10, 2014.

  1. Clare

    Clare holding on

    After 5 years of screaming, shouting, crying, threatening and generally just feeling abused by my 7 year old (T), I heard about ODD yesterday. As such, here I am trying work out whether that is indeed what my daughter has.
    She is incredibly sensitive and finds it hard to make friends because she is always shouting at them and refusing to compromise. On the rare occassions that she does play with other people then it results in her coming home crying and being the "victim" of something or other.
    At home she purposely does things to annoy me and will wind her older sister up until she is in tears.
    T refuses to listen to anything I tell her to do and smirks at me when I get worked up because she is not listening. If, on the occassions that I get to the point of tears, she laughs at me and tells me that she is glad she has made me cry.

    I have begged, cajoled, shouted, threatened, bribed (to name but a few) in order to get her to cooperate with the rules in our house and a rewards chart simply doesn't work.

    I am at the end of my tether. Her father says that it is my fault, because she is just being a normal kid - BUT my eldest daughter didn't behave in any of these ways and my sixth sense just TELLS me that there is something "not normal" about T's behaviour.
    I love her with all of my heart, but it has gotten to the stage where I don't like her and I try to avoid being in the same room as her.
    The fact that she blames me for every single little thing in her life (even when it is something that upset her on TV and NOTHING to do with me!!!!!!!!) has resulted in me questioning my own sanity and parenting skills and leaves me feeling almost "bullied" by her. I hate to admit that of a 7 year old, but I am at the end of my rope and simply cannot cope with yet another day of being told that I am a crap mother who can't do anything right.

    Interestingly, she is a little star at school in relation to her teachers and actively seeks ways to please them.

    PLEASE can someone tell me if this sounds like ODD and if so, where does one go for support. I obviously need to learn new techniques in dealing with her and I will happily do so.

  2. unc tarheel

    unc tarheel New Member

    Sorry to hear about your daughter. I am in a similar situation with my son who just turned seven. He is doing good academically, but he is socially immature. He has a hard time making and keeping friends. He has ADHD, anxiety disorder, and probably others. You are right- almost nothing works to get him to behave (even at school which is worse). He will be seeing a behavioral/ developmental dr and neuro in less than 2 weeks. Hopefully, we will get some answers then.

    Sent using ConductDisorders mobile app
  3. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    It does sound pretty oppositional to me. One thing sticks out to question you on. You said she is always shouting at other kids. Is this normal for her? Does she always speak loudly? Or is the shouting due to an argument?

    sent from mobile phone
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Are you getting her evaluated? I would take her to a neuropsychologist. How is she doing in school?

    ODD rarely stands alone. It is usually a symptom of another problem.
  5. jugey

    jugey Active Member

    Your post is my life!! My daughter is now 13 and still we struggle. So many labels, medications, doctors and we're still not clear on what's going on. It's a ride....up and down all the time....nothing ever remains the same. She has been labelled as ODD along with several other dxs. It's a difficult road....I feel your pain......it's so hard! A neuro/psychiatric evaluation might help....it's a good place to start.

    Sent using ConductDisorders mobile app
  6. AmandaCoop

    AmandaCoop New Member

    My step son is 10 years old. He was diagnosed with ODD since he was 6. I now also believe he has CD due to his increasingly defiant disorder with any authoritive figure. He has had the cops called on him multiple times. One was one time he pulled a knife out on an adult simply because the adult asked him to move his bike that he had leaned on the adults truck. Another instance was where he was with a friend and they decided to break into a rental house and break windows. He is also in a special school where he is placed with other children the same as him. He has been restrained several times there, has been exspelled multiple times and kicked off the bus multiple times because he simply won't listen to whoever is in charge. Also has been kicked out of every childs after school program cuz he wants to fight with everyone and goes off on adults. And then always blames his issues on someone else. He has no problem cussing at adults...full on hateful full of derogatory words..f*** you, b****, etc etc. He is waayyy out of control. The cops say they cannot sustain him at the police station due to his young age. His biological mother is the one that enabled this. Gave him video games at a young age, internet (where he steals credit cards or makes, gets online and orders porn). Or breaks onto one of our computers to order cell phones, ds's and any other electronics and make his own credit cards. She even lets him get on adult websites, him posing as a 44 year old man wanting to meet people at the park! She refuses to work with us. She won't discipline him or help us. His problems are severely worsening and it is so far out of control. I'm soo afraid that as he gets older and it progresses that we won't be able to help him anymore. He is in counseling and he was taking medicine, but my fiance decided to take him off of it because we do not like medicine. It is tearing our family apart. It is an everyday struggle with him. It makes me question if I am strong enough to go through this. We have talked about that if football (and the discipline that brings) doesn't help him, we will have no other choice but to send him to a discipline boys school to help him. But it definitely affects everyone in the house...all day, every day.
  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Did he have a crazy, chaotic first years of life? I am guessing ages 0-3 were full of change, different caregivers, and possibly he was neglected due to parental fighting or maybe father left t he house, a bad idea if the child is not brought with, away from abusive or neglectful parent. Who has custody most of the time? If it isn't Dad, why not? If he is the stable parent, in my opinion he should fight for the majority custo
    Your stepson could have a trauma disorder called attachment disorder and some of these kids develop a fear of nobody. Some also have a poorly developed conscience.

    I would be loathe to blame only his biological mother. Blame doesn't really matter because it is what it is. But your husband did not try to get custody of his son and give him a stable life either. He has two parents and neither stepped up. At this point, blame is irrelevant, but it probably would be healthier for the more stable parents to have him most of the time.

    I think it is a bad idea to take him off medicine if it helped at all, but that's me. Also, who is the fiance? If you are not married, he is not a stepson. There is no legal rights tot a boyfriend or girlfriend and actually a stepparent has few legal rights too.

    This boy is very much not all right and hopefully he can get help that works before he reaches eighteen. Harsh discipline schools/boot camps are unlikely to work and he may even get tossed out of them. If he is dangerous at home, I would recommend a mental health based residential treatment center instead. It is the best you can do in my opinion. And don't nix the medications!!!

    At any rate, good luck, whatever you decide.

    You answered a very old thread and may want to start a fresh one to get more responses!!!

    Take care of yourselves. You will need all the strength you can get.
  8. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    I agree with SWOT.

    Whatever is going on is something other than "just defiance". There is a reason for his behavior. It may be genetic, it may be due to things he was exposed to before he was born, it can be due to how things were the first few years of life... or sometimes, it's some combination of pre-disposition and factors we don't understand. The reality is, he needs serious help.
  9. AmandaCoop

    AmandaCoop New Member

    Okay, I will open a new thread. I am the fiance, I know I have no rights whatsoever, BUT I am a part of this and I care for him like he is my own, so I just wanted to reach out and put our situation out there to get help. It's a shame I am considered more of the mother than his biological mother. She was put through rehab 4 different times for alcohol and drugs. I do know, when he does act out and then he shows remorse and I am there for him calming him down, he begs me to not leave him. Maybe that might be part of the reason, abandonment? Either case, bio mother is not willing to help, he lives with us full time, sees her every other weekend. Just getting advice so I can give that advice to his father and we can work on this together. :) His father said the medications just made him into a vegetable and he never wanted to do anything. We will check into the mental health residential centers for sure. Thank you sooo much!!!
  10. Bunny

    Bunny Active Member

    You have just described my life with my 16 year old son. I love him, but don't always like him. And, in truth, sometimes I don't really even like him.

    Have you thought about getting her evaluated by a neuropsychiatrist? It's long testing (hours, usually done over a few days), but it will give you a clear picture of what is going on. Once you get a definitive diagnosis you can try to find a therapist that can work woth you and her.

    I would like a to say that it gets better. For us, things changed when we made the decision to medicate our son when he was 12. My husband was against it (and I think he still is), but I told him he had no choice. I was the one who was home with him all the time, and I was the one who struggled with the behavior problems. I was medicating. Is it perfect? No. And I've had to come to terms with the fact that it never will be. It's a hard truth to face. But it was better. The violence and aggression have decreased, but he's still a mouthy little snot. He still thinks that he's my equal, rather than I'm the mother and he's the child. He feels he doesn't have to follow the rules, but that he can make the rules for everyone else (including me!!) to follow.

    I was told my many people along the way that it was all my fault. If I was a better parent. If I knew how to mother him properly. For. Long time I bought into that, but then someone told me that if I was really a bad mother Easy Child would be put of control, too, and he's not. He's a "normal" 11 year old kid. It's not your fault any more that my son's problems are my fault. Don't listen to people who tell you that. It will only bring you down, and you have enough on your plate.
  11. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Ok. Yeah, it's true you have no rights. Does your boyfriend/fiance have LEGAL custody? If so, he can do whatever he feels is right for his son and bio. mom can not tell him no. I did not mean you do not love him like a mother does. My son is divorced from a crazy lady and his girlfriend is very important to his son...it's just t hat she can't legally make any decisions for him.

    Do look into residential because you have other kids to worry about too and he can get help away from home yet his father and you can still parent him from afar. You need a break. Dad needs a break.

    I am sorry if I came off harsh. I don't mean to (my writing sometimes is just too concrete).

    Amanda, perhaps you could tell your fiance that not all drugs will make his son a vegetable, which of course he doesn't want. But chances are what he needs is very good therapy and a wonderful diagnostician. If you want to get a pretty accurate diagnosis, thus be more able to tell healthcare providers what to do to treat him, maybe Dad can take him to a neuropsychologist. Saved my life with my autistic son (I do not feel your son is autistic, but am just using an example). He kept being misdiagnosed. Now he is 21 and doing great.

    Neuropsychologists (not neurologists or plain psychologists) and sort of the gold star for diagnosing in the U.S. They are not the only game in town, but they sure take a lot of time (mine was ten hours!) and tend to nail things the best because the test the child in every single area of function. Most therapists and even plain psychologists don't go that far. Even psychiatrists tend to guess, by just going by what the parents say. We found that was not enough with our complicated child.

    Wishing you all good things!
  12. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    The key factors are... TIME for testing is substantial, and they cover almost every single area of function. There are psychologists who can do this - they are usually PhD doctors, and have a specialty in testing. If you're not getting 6-10 hours of face-time testing, it isn't a comprehensive evaluation. No matter who does the testing, make sure they are experienced, and comprehensive.
  13. Allan-Matlem

    Allan-Matlem Active Member

    oNot quite sure of the parents and care givers involved here. Diagnoseses have a use , but we need to move beyond the diagnosis and really understand the underlying reasons for the child's struggles. ODD at best just describes the child's defiance and that does not explain much. You might want to look at the ALSUP , an assessment of lagging skills and unsolved problems on Ross Greene's http://livesinthebalance.org site . Once you have a list of unsolved problems - pretty detailed , you can start the process of solving them together with the child . Not easy , but the focus is on relationship, life skills and connecting with the goodness within the child. Ultimately even when kids go to a good treatment center , the family needs to learn to cooperate and work with each other. Older sisters, buddy-tutors, mentors etc are also great fo kids . I hope this helps
  14. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    @Allan-maltem - This is North America. Without the right diagnoses, the kid is guaranteed to be destroyed by the school system, and pretty much by the medical system as well. Lived it. Schools SAY they use Ross Greene's books and concepts, but it's all lip service.

    Getting the right diagnoses isn't all about medication. It's about knowing what you are dealing with. For us, it was a total game-changer to actually get ALL of the relevant diagnoses. The last couple were major, and it changes even how WE see our difficult child. Nothing worked, on any front, until we knew.
  15. HMBgal

    HMBgal Active Member

    I even bought three copies of the books and went through the worksheets at all the 504 and teacher conferences. Pfffft. No one ever looked at them or even knows where they are. And it's not like our kids are the only ones that could benefit. SMH.
  16. allusedup

    allusedup Member

    Is he worse after coming back from visiting with his mom? If so perhaps at least until you get him tested and find out what's wrong, maybe his father should think about suspending the visits. Allowing him to access porn sites, and do whatever else he wants is no good for him no matter what problems he has. Just MHO. Best of luck to you. Keep coming back, there is a wealth of wisdom and support here. Please keep us updated.