Ok....I "don't get it"!

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by lovelyboy, Jun 30, 2011.

  1. lovelyboy

    lovelyboy Member

    I feel very drained and frustrated after a rough day yesterday...with CONSTANT opposition!!!

    What I just REALLY DON"T GET is this: How can my son be so well behaved for a few days and then suddenly just become oppositional?

    I've been reading about this ODD and they keep on saying that they 'can't help it' or haven't got control over it but how on earth can my child one day decide that 'today I'm going to do my homework perfet (surely this is a choice of will?)...Or some mornings he will get up all by himself and put his school clothes on and is motivated to go to school....(again..he had to make that concious choice?) and even be nice and cooperative, giving compliments, ect.

    Then, like yesterday he suddenly doesn't want to do homework, oppose me in EVERY REQUEST...just saying...no....I don't want to...why do I need to do a,b,c? ect. This after we had a great day, no explosions, no nothing!

    Surely, I also get my bad days...but I choose to be nice, because of possible consequences.

    Surely he needs to realize that some behavior will cause him to loose friends or have a poor relationship with his family?

    I feel like just leaving him...if he doesn't want to bath, well then he must smell bad (he doesn't really care!), if he doesn't do his homework, he needs to get into troubble at school. Am I not taking to many reasponsibility for his behavior, it's his live...surely he needs to learn about consequenses?

    He even told me the other day that he wanted to be rude now but he CHOOSE to behave nicely! I meen having ODD isn't a chemical inbalance or like getting epilepsy, it's behaviour...And he has enough frontal lobe to think and make a decision?

    Am I totally of the tracks here? How far do you just 'let go' because shame he has ODD?.....Soory, I know this sounds terrible but I'm really so frustrated with all this!

    Maybe he doesn't even have ODD! Maybe he is just a very clever, gifted(been confirmed) boy who manipulates his environment to get what he wants?
  2. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I kinda think "it's the nature of the beast". It is a fine line we draw between walking on eggshells to avoid conflict and holding their feet to the fire to demand responsible behavior. It's why we can never become complacent and think everything is ok - just when you relax, WHACK!!!!

    I think, especially with the smart ones, it's a little bit "can't help" and a little bit "manipulate". Equal parts make the difficult child cocktail.

    "I meen having ODD isn't a chemical inbalance or like getting epilepsy, it's behaviour..."
    Certainly lb, it's a behavior, but it is a behavior caused by emotional/mental issues or chemical imbalances in the brain. You will find a vast majority of us who experience ODD as an umbrella diagnosis used to describe a set of behaviors that, over time, we have found improved once an more accurate diagnosis is found and treatment moves along.

    Hang in there, we understand.

  3. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Yes, I too understand this state of confusion. I wonder, though, how much a child of seven really "chooses" his/her behaviour? It seems to me most of us are propelled along by forces we don't rationally understand or look at, often well into adulthood - and sometimes a whole life long... I can see why it must seem so puzzling to have three days "off" and then one day "on", as it were... Of course you could look at it with a sense of gratitude for the three days "off", I guess :) I don't have any answers, any more than you do, alas.
    I know with my son I am often confused as to how much is this nebulous ADHD and how much is his character. If one gives any credence to these things, both his zodiac signs (sun, ascendant) are fire signs and he really IS fiery, determined, born to command, possessed of absolute self-confidence, iron will, etc, etc. I suspect he would have been a difficult child even without the ADHD :) So... how far does your son's character and whims play into what he cannot "help", the things happening or not happening in his brain? If we knew the answers to those things we'd be on some other plane of evolution :)
    How far to let go...? I don't think one does in practice. I think one just learns how to be better at dealing with the difficult child-ness...
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I just woke up, so I'm still tired. Please forgive me.

    It is probably not ODD. ODD is sort of a catch-all meaning something is wrong. You aren't sure yet what he has. Is he scheduled to be evaluated by a neuropsychologist or at least a child psychiatrist? I doubt his diagnosis will come back simply ODD. ODD does not stand alone. Sounds like this child is atypical and DOESN'T get it and in my opinion it's not his fault. His brain is wired differently and he needs interventions to understand the world the way we do. Kids don't wake up every day thinking, "How can I misbehave and drive Mom nuts and be yelled at?"

    Please have him evaluated ASAP...and not just by a therapist or the school. Take it further. Good luck :)
  5. lovelyboy

    lovelyboy Member

    Thanx for your support!

    He was in playtherapy with a counsellor for assesment.....she just concluded that he is very gifted.....but didn't know what else. She thought maybe bipolar or mood dysregulatory disorder....We took him to a child psichiatris...who had a discussion of an hour with us and 10-15 minutes with my son(he wasn't really eager to work with her). She said it seems like ODD and anxiety disorder....She has put him on antidepressants to try and calm the irritability...must say it did help for the terrible crying and his not clinging so much ....he seems less stressed, makes a bit more eye contact...but still irritable and agitated! She says it's early days but suspect possible Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) or Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). Personaly I don't suspect Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)...I think his personality is introverted and not very outgoing. And surely some SI problems from what I've gathered.
  6. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Can I ask why you "don't suspect Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)"? What behavior do or don't you see to eliminate that as a possibility? Just curious.
  7. lovelyboy

    lovelyboy Member

    Maybe I just don't know enough about Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)....he might have because ,am I right saying ,ODD is also on the autism spectrum ass well as mood dysregulatory disorder? What I ment was actually that I don't think he has Asperger.....She(the psychiatrist) was saying things like my son didn't make good eye contact with her (but he didn't know her at all!) He does make good eye contact with strangers in a mall, while doing his speech at school, with friends and family...He might sometimes be a bit shy, yes. Also, she said that he didn't understand a metaphore...but he is only 7yr old! We asked him some abstract things during the week that he understood well...he is also able to understand humor very well....What I did pick up was that he sometimes seems as if he 'switches of' in groups...but it's usually when he becomes board.....he sometimes also doesn't catch jokes or sarcasm.....
  8. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Kids can make eye contact. They can understand some abstract ideas/thoughts depending on where they are on the spectrum. They are more easily frustrated and if we don't know what is frustrating or confusing to them, it can seem as if they "switch". There are so many variables, not much is set in stone, that I wouldn't be so quick to write Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) off. It sounds very plausible given the information you have shared so far. Definitely continue with evaluations. In the mean time, try to "dig" for the why's of his behavior. Gentle questioning may get you answers. If you know the why, you will be better able to deal with it in a positive way. I can give you examples from my experience if you'd like. I have gotten quite good at it, if I do say so myself. It turns out a lot of the behavior difficult child displays requires teaching and not punishment. It's a learning process for all of us.
  9. lovelyboy

    lovelyboy Member

    Gentle questioning may get you answers. If you know the why, you will be better able to deal with it in a positive way. I can give you examples from my experience if you'd like.

    I welcome any advise.....Interesting that you suggest questioning....have never thought of that actually?

    Must say...I tried a new aproach today...it worked a little bit better...instead of getting angry or upset with him I tried some humor and maybe tickling, playing, pulling faces.....this actually defused some situations.....

    What I do notice also....they went on an schoolouting again today and he complained of stomach ache when he got back....wanted just to cuddle up in a warm blanket and didn't care much about wanting to go and play with friends. I do think the outings causes sensory overload!

    Also what I noticed was that when he goes to parties, he tends to be the observer and not partaker....watching from a distance.....doing his own thing.....Very interested to start of, but gets board( not in an aggressive way but passive way)....even when playing socker or cricket last year, he would start his own ' sword fights' or draw pictures in the sand instead of being wicket keeper! He will complain that he doesn't understand what's expected of him or that he got board.....
  10. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    That all sounds sooo Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). Here's how a conversation went with difficult child yesterday when he had an issue at Occupational Therapist (OT). The Occupational Therapist (OT) was trying to get him to hold a "body brush" while he did some things on a swing. He became upset and threw the brush then came and sat by me and wanted to go home. I asked "What's the matter?" His first response was "Holding the brush makes me dizzy" (she was slowly spinning him on a platform swing). I patiently asked "What does a brush in your hand have to do with your head feeling dizzy?" He then said that he has to cover his eyes while he's spinning so he doesn't get dizzy and he can't do that with the brush in his hands. I told him he could try covering his eye with the back of that hand. Then he BLURTED out "I hate that brush! It's not like the one we have. This one is oval and has a handle on it. Ours is a recangle and doesn't have a handle." The Occupational Therapist (OT) gave him a rectangular brush and he went back without any further complaints. As you can see, he couldn't pinpoint the problem right away but with some "digging" into his thinking and solutions to the issues he did identify, we eventually got to the root of the problem and was able to solve it easily. Because of his Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), he has a hard time identifying what is causing the anxiety and then putting it into words also becomes an issue. I used to dismiss his "excuses" and try to force him to comply. That is why I said gentle questioning because his "thinking pattern" is very different from mine sometimes but is not necessarily wrong. We work together to solve the problems. You might want to pick up the books "The Explosive Child" and "What Your Explosive Child Is Trying To Tell You". That is where I learned to do this and how to look at things differently.
  11. msmlb

    msmlb New Member

    He sounds a bit like my son. It is awful how quickly we go from things being ok to screaming and showing complete defiance. He is also one who could care less if he showers, or does homework. There are those times where I feel like I walk on eggshells because I don't want to set him off.
    With my daughter who also has ODD I feel like I "pick my battles". There are times when she gives me an attitude but I tend to ignore it so she doesn't get the satisfaction.
    I have "The Explosive Child" book. I haven't read it all but through some of it I said to myself, OMG that is what she does.

    I take it day by day and sometimes hour by hour.
    I might consider having some additional testing done to rule out the possibilty of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD).
  12. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I can be completely ODD when the mood fits me so I really understand these kids. It is so hard to do what someone tells you to do when every fiber of your being tells you to do just the opposite! Its like feeling, Oh heck NO...your not gonna make me do that...lol. I find myself doing that all the time. Sometimes it even works to my advantage!

    I dont know if they use the same terms for diagnosis where you are as they do here in the US but from some of the terms you have used it appears that you are using some of the familiar ones. Is he still on the anti-depressant medication the doctor prescribed him? If so, has he gotten any worse on it? If not, I would be looking at either an anxiety disorder or something on the autism spectrum. If he had anything on the mood disorder spectrum, I would expect an anti-depressant to make thing worse.

    I do think that the play therapy can still help plus therapy for you as well to help you learn how to parent different child. They arent easy and they take a toll on a family.
  13. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    It took my son 11 years to finally get his Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) diagnosis. I wouldn't give up. He sounds a lot like Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). If it's not, you haven't lost anything. My motto is "Better to be safe than sorry."
  14. lovelyboy

    lovelyboy Member

    Janet.....it's interesting that you say that antidepressants will worsen symptoms if there is mood issues? Must say he has only been on Tofranil for the last 3 weeks.....His crying got better, also not so much negativity and fear going on. He is also less into the colour black and prefer brighter coulars now....what did got worse was his irritibility....and he suddenly wanted to start listening heavy metal loud!(for goodness sake he is only 7yr old!!!)...so I went to buy some christian heavy metal music!LOL!He has been diagnosed with anxiety dysorder ass well.

    The penny dropped a bit further this morning when he told me he doesn't want to carry on with quitar lessons anymore....I tried the 'gentle questioning' and got so much more info!(thanx TeDo!).....he told me he wants to carry on with quitar, but that what bothers him is that he have to walk all on his own after class from the music room to his class and that it irritates him if all the big kids run around and bump against him....He also said it makes him feel very lonely and fearfull! This is helping me to build a cleare picture of what's going on!