ok i give......i need some serious advice

[Jena]

hi

i'm a mess today i'm exhausted posting all over the place doing nothing but complaining having my own pity party dont' even need guests..........lol

older difficult child huge huge problem. i posted about it what she did while we were at evaluation.
i just looked at her mandatory friday sheet well id' rather say i gto a verbal from her she purposely is refusing to give it to me. she failed multiple tests this week.

i honestly dont' know what to do anymore i've about had it. it's all a bit too much for me today ijust need some rest than i'll be ok again but i cant' seem to get any in this house today between older difficult child giving me major issue and little difficult child climbing walls we just stood outsdie in cold so she could ride bike becuase i dont' know what to do with her to ware her down.

older difficult child boyfriends' 17 this is new since evaluation. hair cut and black now, failing all grades in school confirmed no drugs. isnt' pitching in doing chores, isnt' doing homework teachers up my rear if you knwo what i mean looking at me like i'm supposed to change it all. i'm done. what do i do with this kid?? what??????

god forgive me their both sucking me dry at this point they truly are.

i tried the punishment approach that dind't work i tried the rewards system taht didn't work i almsot hit her that didnt' work, now what? i tried talking to her five million speeches later nothing is working i tried therapy she clammed up for 3 mos adn cost me tons of money therapist even said she's not ready to talk about anything.

what do i do with this kid? i'm afraid to go to work tomorrow i'm exhuasted for starters yet running out of money so i kinda should go, yet i know she'll be floating and god knows where with boyfriend in his car now?? i can't keep tabs on her it's getting out of control. seh lies says she's at friends house doing homework meanwhie she's walking on busy road inbetween major highways to buy hair coloring stuff with her lunch money i gave her for week so she'd have it while i was away. she lies she steals things not money so far but who knows i dont' count every single penny she's stolen from little difficult child before ten dolalrs birthday money. she's constantly on computer and house phone bill is thru roof now so so bad. she's a mess. an absolute mess in my eyes. next it will be i'm pregnant mom i can feel it coming she says she doesn't want to have sex, she says she hasnt' come close yet with a 17 year old boyfriend it's bound to happen. he sounds like a real jerk too.

to boot i have little difficult child who yells at me when i repremand older difficult child it's a horror show id' rather be at work on weekend thsi is soooo incredibly draining. and ridiculous that i cna't have peaceful day iwth my family at home.

any ideas advice you all helped me out so very well with little difficult child who in 3 weeks i'll have verbal recommendation from hospital hopefully will have some answers there as to what the heck is going on wtih her. i need help with this one now. it's like their taking turns. i really am beginning to feel resentful towards my own babies with whom i adore. i have no life i can't even get to job anymore.

thanks sorry so long i'm so aggrivated right now i could scream

jen

 

[Marguerite]

Jen,

back down on a lot of things. You're getting nowhere anyway, so the more you try to assert authority - and fail - the worse it gets. Better to not engage, than engage and lose.

School issues - leave them with school. Tell the school that you're done, her refusal to do schoolwork is not a home issue, it is difficult child's problem and not yours. While ever you're nagging her to do stuff, it's not her that's achieving anything, it's your nagging. So nothing she therefore does, is worth anything (to her).

Of course, this can cut both ways - if she is to remain in the house and expect you to feed her and clothe her, she has certain rules to comply with. You choose those rules, as long as they're compatible with the expectations you would have of a flatmate. These rules are based on consideration for others in the house - taking turns with various tasks such as laundry, cooking; making sure you tell whoever is cooking diner that you will be home (or not); contributing financially (or if unable to, then doing chores to make up for it); putting dirty laundry where it has been requested to be put or accepting that laundry otherwise won't get done. You get the picture.

If she goes out and you have heard nothing about whether she will be home for dinner, then don't include her in your plans. If her laundry doesn't get put where it's supposed to, then don't wash it. Stop doing things for her, unless she does things for you.

Academically - sit down with her and ask her what she wants to do in life. What is she aiming for? Then workshop with her, how to get where she wants to be. Wanna be a rock star? Then go audition for "Idol". In the meantime, work at it, practice, get lessons, go to auditions, write some music, learn an instrument, find a band... get my drift? Wanna be a fashion designer? Then get out that pencil and draw. Learn to sew. Draft patterns. Make a few test garments, see if friends want to buy them.

Whatever she says she wants to do, accept it as her serious choice and work with her on how to achieve it.
Wanna be an axe murderer? OK honey, but it is a limited field, there are not many in the world who achieved more than one or two murders. You might need a fall-back option here. But first, you need to learn how to sharpen an axe. Maybe get in some practice on chopping wood. Get on the computer and do a Google search, find out if there are any countries which still practice beheading as death sentence, apply to those countries as an executioner to get some practice in.
Hmm, maybe we need to re-think this one.

You get my drift Jen? Humour her, because some of the first suggestions are going to be deliberately ridiculous. But the process of thinking it through may make her laugh - make you both laugh, and I think you both need it.

When my middle two kids finished school I made it clear - do a course, or get a job. I didn't care what course, I didn't care what job. What I wanted from them was to learn a work ethic. So easy child 2/difficult child 2 found a French course. difficult child 1 did a course working with animals, then the next year did a Japanese course. He couldn't get paid work so I got him a volunteer job.

If your difficult child wants to throw in the towel with school, make it clear that she can't plan on lying around all day, she has to be productive. But she can choose.

Maybe giving her some choice, some sense of control back in her life, might help her see a sense of direction. I get the feeling that at the moment she's lost her way.

And don't worry about the hair. It's done now. Let her work it out for herself, that it looks ugly. Unless it looks good - in which case, tell her.

But you are parenting an individual who has her own strong views. If you clash, chances are you will lose. And that's not good.

It's better to steer, than push.

Marg

 

[susiestar]

Sounds like a real pressure cooker. If you truly think she is going to come up pregnant then you need to make sure she has birth control available. At least with condoms she may avoid pregnancy and/or diseases.

What would happen if you let HER be in charge of the school stuff. You don't reprimand her over it, you tell the teachers that she will have to meet whatever the consequences for not doing things is. It may not improve her grades, it might be a bit of responsibility and feeling you trust her to be able to handle the consequences, it might let YOU be under less pressure??

I don't have answers, but I will send you a big ole basket of hugs, with some lovely scented flowers and a pretty balloon!

Susie

 

[AprilH]

Hi Jennifer-
Wow...all I can say is just 'breathe'. Go to your room for a time out if you must. I have my kids go to their rooms, shut their doors and then I go in my room and sit in my closet when I feel like I am going to snap.

 

[ircon]

to night i bring hope (i hope) difficult child 9th birthbay party today went like a dream cant remember a better day the past 2 months have been the worst ever barring the last 2 weeks too early to be sure but i think he is being reached no drug today either had forgotten what normal is, he has been talk suicide (at 9) this is a major confidence boost for him and us to all parents if you believe in your child then trust your instincts, sod the powers they want conformity, when exposed to individuality they blame us not the system from now on i prepare difficult child for sociaty not school let the feacher earn their money and my respect

 

[Jena]

marg

wow this is a completely different way of thinking i guess for me somewhat.

i had a huge mtg. with school over a mos. ago sat down with all the teachers i have done this before and they said well you have to work local, you have to sit with her every night and do homework, you hvae to mkae her care. i have to this, i have to that.

enough of that because right now as per her she doens't care at all. i tried the whole what do you want out of life?? ready for this she said to marry rich. oh man. i'm a simple woman love target have no coach bags this is me simplicity at it's best. its' who i am. i have always worked she sees that always made my own money this is hte first time a man is taking care of me.

so where did she come from?? i dunno.........

she's only going to be 15 in may can she even leave school at this point??

should i pull computer out of room?? what about ipod and stereo?? what about house phone?? boyfriend and i use our cells honestly she's the only one using house phone and bill is off the charts.

ok what about when i go back to work and she disappears after school each day what do i do with that?? ive tried punishing and im telling you she just doesn't care.

it's like nothing i do matters, rent a movie with her, share a joke try to get her to laugh tell her how much i love her nothing matters now. dangerous time for her with a boyfriend the age he is i'm soo telling you. ok maybe your right i'll go get her the pill and she can keep it. i'm not sure what she'll do she says sex is grose but hello she has a picture of a box of condoms on her myspace she thinks thats cute.

susie thanks also and is there a bottle of wine in that basket??

Jen forever trying to smile thru this sh*t

 

[Marguerite]

She sounds like she's trying the 'shock and awe' methods to get a reaction from you, from school, from friends, from anybody, but inside she is still a confused kid.

"I will marry a rich man," eh? OK, kid, let's plan for that. First, the competition. Very few rich men are prepared to marry high school dropouts. You will need to be able to talk with him enough for him to get interested in you, enough for him to want to marry you and not just use you as a one-night stand. So you need to understand the sort of topics that rich men talk about.

If you think you can use sex to attract a rich man, you're wrong. Power and intelligence are more of an aphrodisiac to them. And if you think you can use sex, be aware that there are a lot of hookers out there with far more experience, far more willing to do whatever it takes, including some fairly gross stuff, to get their man. And yet somehow, they're all still walking the streets.

Therefore you will need to improve yourself in ways that will attract a rich man. You will also need to mingle in those circles - get a job at the stock market, or in the investment section of the bank. Think wealthy, dress wealthy, act powerful, build your own investment portfolio and JUST MAYBE, a rich man will be interested.

Or you could become a supermodel - first you need to be tall. Taller than average, as tall as most men. And you need to be proud of that height and walk tall, not slouch (which so many tall girls do). Next, you need a modelling course with the best. That costs money. So you will need to get a job to pay for this. The better-paying jobs go to high school graduates. OK, you don't want to deal with that, so maybe washing cars will work for you. If you're tall, you can reach the roof more easily anyway. It will take a lot of clean cars to cover modelling class fees, head shots, portfolio shots, agency fees etc, but it's another option.

Jen, do you see how it works? If she is serious about this option (and do treat it as if she is) then she has to do her homework. She needs to research the list of richest men in the world, find out who is married to them and how they met. What was the carer path of each of these wives? There are enough interviews, she can use this to find out just what she would have to do to not only marry a rich man, but keep him long enough to be able to afford a good lawyer to overturn the pre-nup.

Do the same with every suggestion, and if you find a chink of light somewhere that shows she really wants to go in that direction, then support her. She will likely change her mind, but that's OK. These ays a person can have many more careers in one working lifetime. And if she messes up school & college, she can always do it later. It's more difficult, but it can be done.

But no rich man will marry a girl who hasn't got a good work ethic. She needs to find this out for herself - she needs to work out A LOT of this for herself.

You also need to have some ground rules in place and some consequences you can really follow through with.

Thinking cap time.

Marg

Sorry for any typos, I'm actually running late - got a film preview to rush out and see!

 

[KTMom91]

I had a chat with Miss KT's counselor when she started high school, told her that if Miss KT wasn't doing what she was supposed to be doing (homework, following dress code, attending classes), that I expected the counselor to assign detentions, Saturday school, etc. School consequences should be handled at school. Call me, yes, but then give her that detention appointment. It's worked very well for us.

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

Hey Jen,

Have you read "the explosive Child" yet? Marg's suggestions are rather similar. I like how she said that it is better to steer than push. Many times, the child has no clue that you are the one doing the steering.

You say older difficult child has computer, ipod, stereo, house phone in her room? There ya go. If punishments don't work, hit her where it hurts. It is your house, and you get to establish the rules.

First, don't micromanage. Decide what is important. Prioritize. Give her a set of rules to follow. Tell her that you are starting fresh, and she has to do this and such. You get to decide what rules are imperitive.

She does not follow the rules, she starts losing things out of her room.

And by the way, you also get to decide if she gets to date this guy. You have every right to forbid it.

Take control back. Your house, your rules.

 

['Chelle]

With my difficult child and all his deep dislike of school and anything related, I agree with Marg. Let school consequences fall where they may. I make sure difficult child gets to school, the rest is pretty much up to him and the school. Don't do your homework or study etc., you fail. You fail, you get held back, while all your friends move on. My difficult child hates to fail at anything so he does enough to pass at least LOL. I support him etc. where I can, but I always say I can't even force him to hold a pencil, how can you force him to do the work. You can't make them care and you can't force them to do it. We had the homework wars in grade 4/5, I'm done with that.

In any thing I feel is important, his world stops until he's compliant. Don't want to do what you should, you sit in your room all day doing nothing (except school work if he has any at home and bathroom breaks, eats there alone as well). I take away all electronics, phone etc. If he says anything like you can't take the xbox that was a xmas present and mine, I just tell him the power to run it is mine and if I have to I'll cut the breaker to his room. Doesn't shut off power to anything important like the fridge or furnace, so it works. I also tell him that until he's 18 anything in the house is mine and present to him or not he has/uses it only with my consent, I can take it and garbage it at any time. I haven't had to do this in a long time now, he's learned I will and how boring a day of doing absolutely nothing is, and he's pretty compliant with that. He actually usually does his homework without fuss as well. Don't know if that would work for you, getting him to stay in his room the first couple times was a chore.

I would definitely take the phone from her room, and limit her time on it. It's costing you too much and she's not being responsible enough to limit her own time. I liked Fran's saying of Do to get. The phone and computer are probably most important to her right now, she'd have to do what she needs to to get use of them, such as be respectful to you, do enough work at school to pass etc.

Don't know about the lying and disappearing, I've never had to deal with that. The only lie my difficult child has told is that he isn't poking/bugging his sister and I know he is.

 

[JustOneMoreTry]

Hello

I have the exact same daughter, only one year older. Doesn't care about anything - including school. Everyone else on here is absolutely right - let school take care of school stuff.

I had one of those big meetings at school too. I sat and listened and by difficult child came in and gave her side and cried and they all bought that she would do a daily report and really try now....blah blah blah. The counselor told me that the teachers were really encouraged by this - I told the counselor that the teachers are really naive. I was right.

Mostly I wanted to address how you are feeling. I understand completely - I was in the same place. Couldn't function - losing many days at work. Trying everything, blaming myself, making everyone else around me nuts. Nothing worked - you know why - cause she didn't want it to work. She is not willing to try - and cares only about herself.

So, I gave up. Most likely not the most popular choice - but had to do it for my health, my GFGSS and my husband. We were all depressed, angry, crabby and irritable. How was GFGSD - fine! Cause she was doing what she wanted. Finally, I sat son and hubby down and said - this is nuts - she comes in, does/says something nasty - we all get upset - she leaves - and doesn't give us another thought - except that she created havoc.

If she leaves without telling us, we call the police. If it is after curfew - she gets ticketed. (Eventually she will end up in Juvie) School deals with school issues. We lock up everything in the house and try not to leave her alone if possible (but we have to work - so...). The final straw was when she called me a f.....b..... She is now going to go live with her bio-mom come fall - cause it was one-step out of bounds too many. (This is Dad's decision - I am still trying to be strong about it...)

You may not have the final solution that I have - but remember - take care of you - pick your battles. And most importantly - she isn't concerned with how you feel - so you have to take care of how you feel. Step-back. She is going to make her own choices - let her have the consequences for them. It is an act of lunancy to continually try to help/save someone who wants neither to be helped or saved - especially by Mom. Sad to face - but true.

Think of how many times she has made everyone nuts then left - to come back all sweet and fine - but you are still upset/depressed. How many times does she turn on the charm when she wants something - just to turn it off again when she gets it.

Hugs and prayers to you - and take care of you - she is taking care of herself!!!

Cyndi

 

[house of cards]

I would try very hard to get her a part time job. Part of your problem seems to be she has too much time on her hands. A job could help her self esteem, lessen her free time, and teach her to value education if anything can. Of course she would have to be at least 15 but that is right around the corner.

 

[maryellen19440]

Hi, I am brand new to this site; don't understand all the abbreviations??
I need some serious help also...............At witts end with my new husband's kids.

12 yo girl with bi polar, Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) and odd. She makes me crazy!
18 yo boy with bi polar and major relationship hang ups, etc.

Neither kid cares about taking care of themselves, like:
bathing/showering
clean clothes
brushing teeth
brushing hair
rooms are disgusting ( I won't clean anymore)

I have tried everything! Help.................

 

["B"]

Maryellen~~go to forum..go to facts and questions board... go to abbreviations/acronyms. There you will find information on understand the"code" words everyone uses. Good luck~everyone here is a great help!

 

[maryellen19440]

Thank you, I will study up on that stuff and get back with you soon!

 

[mom23gsfg]

right now i can only think of a few things
as for the hair: most may not agree with me but id let it go, truth is she'd fit right in at my daughter's school and most schools for that matter. when my girls where younger i finally told them it was their hair ,do with it what they want . but to not come crying to me when they got made fun of . mmmmmmmm funny every kid thought the hairstyles they came up with was cool. but they eventually grew out of that.
and i had to also stop and think about when i was 13, i took some blonde highlighter and put a big streak behind both my ear all the way down , the next time i put a big streak right through the middle ( i think my mom even still has pics ) it looked awful... funny thing though all the other kids liked it. i think it is a fad that all kids go through ...u know whatever is cool at the time.sometimes u just have to think of all the stuff we used to do to ourselves when we where growing up that our parents thought was out there. like holey jeans and boys peircing their ears ... its just the same thing just a little different.
my girls have went through the skater faze , prep faze , even the gothic faze ." i really dont buy into all that cr*p if a kid is dressed like that it spells trouble. " most of the kids are just trying to fit in. with what everybody else is doing or trying to outdo each other

and take some advice from a preg teens mom do not trust the pill! i would maybe have her put on the shot or something. my daughter was on the pill and swearing she wasnt doing anything "yeah i found out real qiuck she was" but though she did keep up with taking them most of the time for the truth of the matter most kids forget to do anything. and what i found out too late was that her boyfriend got her to stop taking them "thats some new info i just found out" he told her i would have to let them get married if she got pregnant ."so she would pretend she was taking them. but ,for her safety and ur sanity i would try something else.

 

[maryellen19440]

hi Jen,
I feel for you! I am really new at this and like you I feel LOST and don't know what else to do. My gfgsd is 12 1/2 and a piece of work. She is Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD), ODD and Bipolar. I have tried everything with her; she has been in therapy for about 10 years now and the issues just keep coming. She too, doesn't care about anything?? I agree school will be handled at school?? Or else??
I feel if I don't get a hold of this kid now; god only help me when she is 16??? It won't be pretty.
This kid was adopted by my husband and his Ex when social services took her from her biological mom and dad (both losers and druggies) when she was 18 mos. By the way, the Ex is really the grandmother.. Thats right; her loser son is the real dad. What a mess?
My husband divorced his EX (bi polar, crazy and refuses to believe shes nuts) after 18 years of marriage. The marriage was anything but healthy for any of them. Michael is now 18, suffers from Bi polar and has a tendency to talk about sex constantly and has gotten in trouble with porn at school.
All any of them know is screaming and yelling.................
By the way my husband is an alcoholic.. He drinks when things go crazy............
I was a single mom for years in San Diego, 2 boys, now 31 and 29 and they are awesome and very successful!
I reached a point this past weekend with the 12 yo girl and instead of fighting or talking till i was green in the face; I left the house and didn't come back till 5 hours later.................And then of course; Everyone wants to kiss your butt??
I refuse to give up on these kids and my husband........................ I love them all............................thats why I found this sight today. I have read some things on here that i might try at home. Wish me luck
Mary Ellen

 

[Jena]

hi guys thank you so much for the responses and thoughts of how to handle this situation. i appreciate your time and thought processes and effort.

the only thing i disagree with is the forbidding her to see the boyfriend that wil only make her go further and she'll run to him.

so here's what i did today it was a big jen day.......i emailed all of her teachers letting them know my new plan. i recieved some positive responses from them, i am in the process of writing up the rules for her. if she's not home by a certain time she will not be allowed in the house, if she isn't at dinner she wont' eat, if she doesnt turn over th efirday sheet she looses something in her room. i'm working on it.

here's hoping thank u so much again for all your responses.

 

[Marguerite]

I hear you about the boyfriend, Jen. So the next best thing - let her see him when she wants, but UNDER YOUR ROOF. Be polite to him as you would to a house guest, don't treat him like a naughty child and try to not think about S - E - X. Just as kids hate to think about their parents "doing IT". And if ever a kid tries to shock you by talking about their sex life in front of you, you have the ultimate weapon - describe their conception, in great detail. Or just threaten to. Or even get husband in to re-enact it (or threaten to).
Kids like to think they invented sex, it really breaks that romantic notion when confronted with the reality that their grandparents must have been doing it too.

The ultimate scare tactic for a kid, is to be caught by her parents, mid-grapple with her boyfriend, and have the parents say, "Don't forget to put the trash out when you're done, will you?"
And on a protective note - I agree with the need for the depo shot, BYW, if you can't trust a kid to be Pill-compliant - you also need to protect your daughter from UTIs. When a girl becomes sexually active, there are certain adult responsibilities that go hand in hand with this, and one of them is looking after her health and her partner's health. Hygiene is important, for both; if he is not clean enough, it increases her risk of various infections. A Urinary Tract Infection (UTI) (urinary tract infection) can be prevented with good hygiene, drinking plenty of fluids and EMPTYING HER BLADDER COMPLETELY WITHIN FIFTEEN MINUTES OF SEX. It's something the doctors forget to tell a woman, a lot of the time.
So walking past a teen couple making out, and saying, "Don't forget to empty your bladder when you're done, I don't want to have to rush to the emergency room in 36 hours just because YOU didn't look after yourself," can be a real turn-off.
And for a guy, having her parents so apparently OK with it can really rattle his confidence. No longer is he having to "take her away from all this repression," but instead has to accept that some people are perhaps more experienced and more welcoming that he can handle. it's like the kids throw themselves at the door, only to find it is already open wide.

If a girl is going to have sex with a guy, it's her decision. Unless you put a chastity belt on her (and I think they are illegal now in most countries) then you can not prevent. All you can do is equip her, to the best of your ability, and ensure that wherever they go, they are safe.

I grew up with an attitude of "not under my roof, kid," pervading all my friends and family. The outcome was a high rate of relationships consummated in the back seat of cars (sometimes with onlookers); in student digs (loaded with fleas and other vermin); on rough ground somewhere in the cold (one friend said she got splinters in her back from the floor in the abandoned warehouse); on a sandy beach (sand - need I say more?).
A couple "in congress" are at risk of attack, they are vulnerable in so many ways. husband & I decided that we did not want our daughters to increase their vulnerability; they certainly weren't going to be put off by it because they didn't really realise at the time. Instead, we never prevented it "under our roof". We did try for a while then realised how ridiculous it was, having one or other of us lying on the floor outside the girls' bedroom. I mean, as soon as we left the house to go to work, or as soon as THEY left the house to catch a train, they were out of our sight and able to sneak off somewhere.

As far as sex is concerned though, we do have rules - serial monogamy. No cheating allowed, because we have to deal with the outraged cuckold and we don't deserve to be dragged in to THAT one.

And about being kind to the boyfriend - it keeps her at home. There is NO excuse for having to get away from the house if he is welcome. it also gives him a chance to learn about how your family functions, and to even become a part of it (which gives you a chance to maybe influence him for the better).

easy child 2/difficult child 2's ex-boyfriend was a sad case. He had no normal family, his mother is - I don't know what, other than a rotten mother who seemed to forget she had a son to look after. Somewhere inside that boy was the five year old kid still waiting for mummy to come home and make his dinner. Unfortunately, he put easy child 2/difficult child 2 on the mummy pedestal, and then began to blame her for what was wrong in his life. Until he is able to sort out his own mind and his relationship with his mother, he will not be able to have a stable relationship, I predict. easy child 2/difficult child 2 never wants to see him again, which is going to be difficult since difficult child 1 wants her ex-boyfriend, his best friend, at his wedding.

Good luck with this one. It's not easy to step back and refuse to engage, but if you succeed it can be so freeing. You're also getting your child faster onto the path of independence. yes, they will make mistakes, but as long as you can still talk to each other enough to show her the way through, it is better than you doing it all for her and her screaming at you in resentment.

It's very zen. It's also very "Explosive Child". Read the book. it probably explains things better than I can.

Marg

 

[susiestar]

Marg, you are wicked. And right.

Esp about the bladder thing. doctor DO forget to tell women (and men) this. Men are not going to get the Urinary Tract Infection (UTI), but if they care about a woman then they will be understanding. AND it certainly would be off-putting, wouldn't it??

Also, teach your daughter about yeast infections. If she hasn't had one, she may start to. IF they have sex during her treatment for a yeast infection, then HE needs to be treated too. They can infect and re-infect each other over and over.

What Marg said reminds me of a tactic a friend and her husband used. They made young men they didn't like thier BEST FRIENDS. daughter would pick a guy certain that they would HATE him and they would ask him for dinner - even if SHE had to be somewhere, the dad took him golfing, worked on guy's cars, etc.... It made the daughter break up with a number of guys who were NOT good to her, far more quickly than they otherwise would.

It would drive the daughter nuts when the guys wanted to "hang out" at HER house rather than away from mom and dad.

Susie