Please Help?? 6 YO Daughter Possible ODD, Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), or ADHD??

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Izzys Ma, Sep 12, 2011.

  1. Izzys Ma

    Izzys Ma New Member

    Hi. I am new to this site and was hoping that I could get some insight from many of you who seem to be going through similar problems with their child(ren).

    My daughter is 6 years old, and up until recently, I did not accept the fact that something just isn't normal about her. She has a lot of quirks and I could ramble on and on about them but I will try not.

    I am hoping that someone can tell me if their child "desired" to make them mad??? This is what she says. She says it is funny when I get mad...so, since finding this out and going through at least 5 -7 meltdown a week and realizing that if I raised my voice or showed her that her behavior was bothering me she seemed to continue the behavior simply for the negative attention, I have given up "fighting" with her.

    For the past week I have been trying to do the reverse of what she wants. So instead of getting mad or pushing an issue (as simple as taking a shower or brushing her teeth, eating dinner, etc.) I have decided the "whatever, if you don't want, I don't care anymore" approach with her. This still angers or frustrates her and she "wants" to fight. She tells me she wants me to get mad at her. Like I said, I have done the exact opposite of getting mad at her for the past week. When she hits me or throws things at me (for literally nor reason other than for me to get mad) I thank her and tell her what a nice daughter she is. If she says mean things to me like shutup, I hate you, your a big fat loser, I want to stab you with a knife, etc. I tell her that its very nice of her. This angers and frustrates her and she screams at me to get mad at her. Eventually she gives up and breaks down and cries like a baby stating that she wants me to get mad at her but she can't control it and that she "can't take it anymore."

    I am awaiting a phone call from a psychiatrist and this is truly breaking my heart. She is a very loved only child. I spend plenty of time with her and try to giver her positive attention and compliments (which can also anger her depending on her mood) with her as does my husband (her father). She is our world.

    I am just hoping if anyone has gone through dealing with a child who claims they want you to get mad, claims they can control when it happens and apparently where it happens?? How do I deal with her? What your child's dioagnosis.

    She is not a spoiled brat either...there are many other "different things" about her that I have not mentioned, some of which I can think about since birth, others that I can pinpoint to when she had turned about 3 and have just spiraled downhill from there...

    Thank you in advance for reading this and offering any advice or support as this is destroying me and I personally am a wreck over not knowing how to help my baby girl.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2011
  2. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Hi, and welcome.

    You'll end up with a bunch of questions as we try to figure out the trends and patterns in your child. We're just parents, but between us all, its amazing what we've seen.

    What, exactly, have you noticed about your child that makes her different? both recently, and from birth etc.
    Has she ever been evaluated by specialists?
    How are things at school?
    Is she your biological child? or adopted? If adopted, any history (how old when adopted, any maternal drug use, etc.)
    Is there any family history of ADHD, or Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), or mental illnesses such as BiPolar?

    On this board, we assume it is NOT your parenting. We've all had that accusation far too often - when in fact, the child has serious issues that are not being addressed. SO... you'll find that we are on YOUR side! And, to a large degree, on your child's side (but the child wouldn't necessarily see that).

    It is not a sign of failure on your part if your child needs help. Would you feel the same if she had cancer? I didn't think so.

    Try to understand that she really cannot help being what she is right now. She would be different if she could, but she can't. You need to find ways to figure out why she can't - which provides the basis for interventions, accommodations and when necessary medications... things that can and do make a difference.

    Have you ever seen the book The Explosive Child? (By Green). It provides a different approach to these kids, and some understanding of the kinds of issues that may be behind the behavior.

    I'm sure others will be along with more questions!
     
  3. Malika

    Malika Well-Known Member

    Hello and welcome to the forum. I hope you will stay around and get good advice and support, which is on offer here.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2011
  4. Izzys Ma

    Izzys Ma New Member

    Thank you for your quick response.

    She is my biological daughter. She has never been taken away or lived with anyone other than myself. We did live my parents until my husband and I could afford to buy a house which occured when my daughter was 4.5 years old.

    In terms of having a family history of any disorders that is a tough one. There is no such history from either myself or my husband but my brother has been diagnosed with a slew of different disorders (all of which came into play when he swallowed over 100 Coricidin cold pills) such as schizoeffective disorder and bipolar disorder. He is currently in prison.

    Some of the things that I thought and/or think make my daughter different are the following:
    ~ Very particular as a baby in terms of who she would allow to hold her withhout crying; not affectionate to very many people outside of myself, husband, and maternal grandparents; would cry if someone other than these people would pick her up and hug her.

    ~HATED the car since birth. Would scream and cry to the point af almost hyperventilating. Same goes with going into stores.

    ~Had to be held ALL of the time. Hated to be put down - a wonder she learned to crawl.

    ~As a baby and through most of her toddler years she HAD to be on a routine or you were looking at one upset baby/toddler. My husband and I literally had to plan things around what she could handle in terms of time or events.

    ~Sad to say but she was never really extremely happy about anything. Always had great Christmas's, birthdays, etc but NO smiles or excitement until she turned 5 when I was delighted to see her smile on Christmas. Brought her on a mini-vacation to a great children's theme park last year and she spent 75% of the time being disappointed and crying about everything (I really did not ever know why she was so upset).

    ~ Was a VERY smart baby. Loved to learn and had the patience to do so - would sit down and be read to for hours. Had access to crayons, markers, paints, etc. 100% of the time and never did anything wrong with them. Knew most of her colors and shapes by the time she was one. Knew the basis animal sounds by the time she was one and would make on request. Talked relatively early. Could do certain "funny" things on command by the time she was 6 months. Did show some OCDish type of things when she was young (between 1 and 2) though (e.g. needing to have crayons in color groups and sorting things by size and getting somewhat irritated if someone disturbed this).

    ~ALWAYS needed attention and still does. She has to be busy doing something...when she gets into playing a game (loves pretending so use "doctors" for example) this game will go on for hours. She has been like this forever...guess you could call it hyperfocusing. If she wants to play doctor and you would like to play something different you might think it was the end of the world. She has always been like this.

    ~We use to describer her as having a battery in her and it was hard to keep up with her - my husband and I are only in our late 20's. This was recently used as an excuse as to why my aunt (her great aunt) would never allow her to visit her house...that was and is very sad to me and my daughter. The battery thing has somewhat dimished with age although she does have her moments still.

    ~Up until around 3 years old, even with the above "quirks," she was very loving, caring and helpful (if you were one of the people she cared for such as myself, husband and maternal grandparents). She cared if you were happy, sad, etc. and truly wanted to make you happy. Would help clean her room or throw trash away.

    ~ At around 3 years old it was as if a switch had been hit and I had a new child. Slowly but surely lost the attention to learn. If she cant figure it out right away she gets very angry and frustrated and will refuse to do it. Still doesn't quite get how to undress herself (shirt) completely. Sometimes she will turn violent (at home or grandparents house only - maintains composure at school and after-school care very well with the exception of one recent crying episode at school because she misunderstood the teacher).

    ~She does not like to make you happy anymore...simple requests are blatantly ignored and she does the exact opposite of most any request given to her.

    ~Does not like to be complimented or thanked for anything now....really seems to either frustrate or anger her.

    ~Used to be a big Daddy's girl (and Mommy's girl) but now sometimes she gets mad even if we go to hug her. Very touchy if you will. But she inisits I lay with her at night.

    ~Will be fine one minute and then not the next. Sometimes you can see when this is going to happen just by looking at her facial expression.

    ~Everything has to go her way or there will be an explosion.

    She has never been evaluated by a therapist but did tell her PCP that she would punch me in the face if I enforced time out at her 5 year physical over a year ago.

    In regards to reading The Explosive Child I am in the middle of reading it. I bought last week in an effort to help my baby. It has been hard to use some of these techniques because when I start with Step 1 (Empathy) and the "I have noticed...whatever" she tells me to shut up and that she is going to get mad...and this is when she is not in the middle of an explosion.

    I am sure that I have left some things out in regards to her but will reread and add onto it.

    I am really hoping that I can help her. It breaks my heart because I have tried so hard to give her a great life and I do not want her entire childhood to be like this...

    Thank you!
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2011
  5. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    She needs a comprehensive evaluation - either by a neuropsychologist or by a pediatric team. The things you described could be part of a number of disorders - but, there are many more questions before any one diagnosis might stand out.

    As far as the techniques in The Explosive Child? Sometimes as parents, we tend to jump in... and end up starting in the middle. First, you have to have some idea of where your child is coming from and why they think the way they do. If you don't have that, then you don't have a basis for collaboration.

    In addition - is here PCP fully aware of all of her behaviors etc.? Have physical causes been tested for and ruled out? Things like thyroid problems, or the possibility of an aneurism or brain tumor? I'm concerned about the change in trend at about age 3... up to that point, I'd have guessed something like "on" or "toward" the Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) spectrum. But... not sure how often an Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kid makes a significant downward shift... Medical stuff needs to be dealt with first, before any other specialists.... unless you're dealing with a pediatric medical team in which case they can check for everything - medical, psychological, and whatever else.
     
  6. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    I am thinking along the autism spectrum line too. The need for routine, the "anxiety" in the car and stores and theme park, not wanting to be touched or only by certain people. I could go on but I don't want bore you. When she is used to being able to get you mad and now whe can't, that is making her change how she expects things to go which is another problem kids with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) have. I agree with Insane in that she needs a very thorough evaluation. A neuropsychologist is the best resource if you can find one. Another is a Child psychiatrist with experience in Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) but not limited to that specialty. We tend not to believe that ODD is a "real" diagnosis even though it is in the DSM. A lot of us here have dealt with that misdiagnosis only to have it turn out to be something else. You're lucky that she is so young. Early intervention is a key to overcome some of these behaviors. To start with, I would try to find out WHY she wants to make you mad or WHY she is angry about something. That will give you an idea of how she thinks so you can try to work with her on a solution. Without understanding where she is coming from you won't know how to help her go where you want her to go, if you know what I mean.

    {{{{(((HUGS)))}}}} to you both. This has to be hard for both of you.
     
  7. keista

    keista New Member

    Welcome to the board!

    I too saw many traits that reminded me of my son and indicate Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). However, I also saw many things that reminded me of DD1 who does NOT have an Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) but does have anxiety and a mood disorder.

    in my opinion this is a "therapeutic breakthrough" I do not believe she can control it, and the fact that she breaks down into tears means that she does NOT like this behavior, and truly does NOT understand why she is doing this. Kudos to you for changing things up and getting her to the "core" of at least some of her problems.
    I also think you are extremely perceptive and flexible in your parenting which in my opinion puts you ahead of the game in parenting a difficult child (gift from God aka difficult child) Instead of forcing her into your perception of how a child should behave, you naturally or instinctually or due to your educational background (doesn't really matter why, either way it's a good thing) changed your behavior to create a less stressful environment. Understanding and adapting to her will go a long way in treatment to get her into a healthy adulthood.

    Yes, currently this behavior does look a lot like Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) (Borderline Personality Disorder) However, there's a reason it's only diagnosed at age 18 or later. in my opinion Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), while a legitimate diagnosis, is one of those diagnosis's that is "driven" by something deeper. If that something deeper gets addressed and successfully treated at an early age, then a Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) diagnosis can be averted in adulthood (this is just my opinion based on my own research and observations).

    ODD seems to be a diagnosis given to virtually any child these days that has behavioral "issues" and while it is listed as a valid diagnosis, more often than not there is something "driving" the ODD behavior. The problem with ODD is that there is no "one size fits all approach" It can be diagnosed with ADHD, ADD, anxiety, depression, bipolar, Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), sensory integration disorder, and a whole slew of other dxes. Each of THOSE dxes requires a different approach to curb the ODD behavior, so while ODD is in the DSM, I personally don't know why. in my humble opinion, pure ODD (with no "driving" diagnosis) is VERY rare, but it is a good placeholder especially for young children when the real diagnosis is not immediately apparent.
     
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I have an Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) son (autistic spectrum disorder) and I think she needs a neuropsychologist evluation to see if she is on the spectrum. That may not be all of her problem. Many kids have multiple issues. But I'd want to check out Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). She certainly has a lot of traits. But since there is mental illness on husband's family tree, I'd keep an open mind and be on the lookout for other things as well. Not all Asperger kids act out, but quite a few of them do.
     
  9. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Others have ALL said good things. One thing to try to keep in the front of your brain, esp at the hardest times, is that kids do well when they CAN. I think it is a quote from Explosive Child, but could be wrong. What it means is that a LOT of the things that are problems are thigns she can't change right now, or not with-o a lot of help.

    A LOT of kids have symptoms show up around ages 2-3. It is a major reason why so many people are so convinced that vaccines cause the problems. Yo DO need to ahve her evaluated fully. Including pediatric neurologist, neuropsychologist, psychiatrist, even a developmental pediatrician if possible. At the very least a neuropsychologist and a psychiatrist (psychiatrist).

    I also STRONGLY urge you to have her evaluated ASAP by an Occupational Therapist (Occupational Therapist (OT)). Many fo the quirks you describe, the car stuff, being held, etc... just screams sensory integration disorder (Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) - not the sids that causes kids to die, totally different). Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) is when the brain doesn't process input from the senses the right way. It will cause a person to seek out or to avoid various types of sensory stimulation. You can learn more in The Out of Sync Child by kranowitz. in my opinion every kid wtih adhd/odd/other issues should have this assessment. Why? well, it goes along iwth many things and can be on its' own too. It can be helped in MANY fairly easy ways, and one particular therapy for Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) has been show to actually change how the brain handles things. This change happens WITHOUT medication, surgery or other invasive techniques. It is not magic, of course, but brushing therapy, when done properly, can have a HUGE impact on an entire family. Brushing therapy MUST be taught by an Occupational Therapist (OT). Done wrong it can really make a child sick or have worse problems. Done right? WOW. My youngest has Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) and the day of his evaluation when they asked him to cut out a shape drawn on paper he had a really hard time. Said he was an idiot, a loser (NOT things he heard at home by a LONG shot - he could and often did discuss the time-space paradox with us at that age -5yo) The Occupational Therapist (OT) did some very gentle things as he was cutting something else out - gently joint compressions on his head, neck, shoulders. Neither she nor I spoke a single word. Suddenly he wasn't fighting the scissors, was staying on the line, said he was really good at it! He was NOT responding to any real cues from either of us. I was behind him and he could not see me, she was just there and said nothing. If I hadn't seen it I would NEVER have belived it. Most changes are not that sudden, but the various therapies make HUGE improvements over time.

    Part of the therapy is providing the types of sensory input you child needs - called a sensory diet. Lots of it will seem easy - she will like to do some of the things she needs to do. We had already provided at least 3/4 of the various things thank you needed simply because he wasdrawn to them. But there are other sensory aids that can help that she wouldn't think of. The Occupational Therapist (OT) will help with that. Often our kids can use sensory aids to help when they are very upset or getting that way.

    Schools have OTs. At least in the US, not sure where you are. The school Occupational Therapist (OT) will do an evaluation, but will only evaluation for how sensory/Occupational Therapist (OT) issues are impacting school. NOT how they impact the rest of her world. Usually insurance covers this. I know medicaid (state kids insurance) does, at least here in OK. The private evaluation is FAR more helpful than the school one, so I urge you to get that as soon as you can. It just makes a difference in a big way.

    Kranowitz also has a book called The Out of Sync Child Has Fun. It is packed with sensory activities and ways to make them less expensive and more fun. I am on my second or third copy in five years - we wore them out or I loaned a copy to a friend and then made it a gift when it helped a lot. ALL of my kids and their friends like the book - it is just FUN and can help too!

    As for the wanting to make you mad, that seems quite common in the difficult child's I know. My husband calls it the Wounded Gazelle Syndrome. Any time one of us was even a little under the weather or stressed out, Wiz would do everything it was possible for him to do to make us blow up. Then he was happy for an hour or so and started again. It lasted for years. It wasn't until we were extremely consistent in responding with low affect to him (no emotions showing, good or bad) for a LONG time that it stopped. I got great help with my own anger issues from a book called "She's Gonna Blow: real help for Moms Dealing with anger" or something similar. Author was Julie Barnhill or Julie Ann Barnhill. One of the ways it helped was to get me to pay attention to the changes in my body when I got angry. After some practice I could see them when they happened and then change my thoughts or whatever so that I stopped blowing up (came from a family of yellers so blowing up was what I knew). That made a big change, and it helped.

    I hope some of what I posted was helpful. Welcome to our family!
     
  10. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I, too, vote for a neuro/psychiatric test. It is comprehensive and may give you the key to understand exactly what issues your daughter is dealing with unsuccessfully. There are so many different areas where she is a bit off but she is one lucky little girl to have such caring and sensitive parents. by the way, I'm curious. Does she only want you to get mad or does she seek the same result with her Dad?

    I have raised a bunch of children and a number had problems. Even though the problems were not identical I found that trips to the store etc. were too much for them. Whether it is the stimulation of the crowds or the noise or just the change from normal home living..who knows? It just was apparent that they functioned better at home.

    One piece of advice that I'll throw out for what it's worth. Only children and sensitive children "hear" everything. They hear conversations, telephone calls and body language. Sometimes it is easy to forget that, like the old old saying goes, "little pitchers have big ears". If they overhear talk about their problems it often magnifies them. This may not even be the case in your household but thought I'd toss it in to the mix.

    Don't despair. There is help out there for your family. Meanwhile use the CD family as a place to vent and for a sounding board. It saves the sanity of many of us, lol. Welcome. DDD
     
  11. Izzys Ma

    Izzys Ma New Member

    Thank you all so very much for your responses. Just hearing from others who have problems similar to what I am going through with my daughter has made a tremendous difference in my "hope" factor.

    I am going to try to address some of the questions and comments now.

    Someone had asked of she only tries to get me mad. Well, this is an interesting question. I would answer it with a yes and a no. Our home situation is somewhat different. My husband works 2nd shift in another state (comes home everyday but not until 12am) and we both only get to see him on the weekends. This has always been the case and my daughter only knows this as normal. So, given this, our daughter has her Daddy wrapped around her little finger. I have always been the one taking care of her, directing her, teaching her, etc. He is more of a playmate to her than anything else. (He is great father though and realizes that there is something wring). When he has changed his "game" with her such as asking her to do/not to do something, teaching her, etc she DOES NOT like it at all. When he does anything other than play with her she feels that he can not do anything right. I have chalked it up to the fact that I for the most part am the one who has mostly taken care of the important things in her life.

    So, given this, although he loves our daughter with all of his heart, he kind of takes a back seat when not playing with her. The anger and all of the negative behavior are directed to me and he does not say or do anything (he says he does not know what to do...I believe him). When she is with my mother she will act out like she does when she is with me. Again, my mother is the caretaker in this setting and my stepfather (my daughter's Papa since birth) is the playmate. She will tell you that Papa lets her do WHATEVER she wants.

    It is interesting to note that although my husband and her Papa are her "playmates" she will get mad at them if they play with her the wrong way. For example, she is fascinated and desires for you to make multiple voices (which I though initially was creative years ago) and pretend you are different people when playing different imaginary games such as doctor or school you have to the doctor and her mother or when playing school you have to the nice teacher, the mean principal, and he mean or nice classmate. This can get rather confusing and you (even Dad and Papa) get this wrong she will get very frustrated, yell, throw things, etc.

    Someone else had mentioned the book "The Out-of-Sync Child." I bought this when I bought "The Explosize Child" last week. The reason I bought this book was because she does have things that immediately stood out at me as being different such as hating the feel of paper (hard when she is in school....big hurdle last year in Kindergarten...insisted on using lotion on hands but teacher would not allow this) and not liking the feel of wood on her feet but will crawl on our deck with her hands and knees in order not to step on the wood with bare feet.

    I know something is up with her as this is not just a stage as her PCP has suggested at various different times. There are too many things that are off.

    I am really not looking for a diagnosis simply for diagnosis purposes for her either. I am looking to alter our (parents, caretakers) reactions and dealings with her to teach her how live her life as this is a long life to live.

    I am reluctant on the thought of giving her medications for any of these things as well. I have seen what the worng medications can do when I watched my brother in and out of the psychiatric ward. I still do not know if they him figured out yet.

    It may be worth mentioning that my daughter has other physical health issues as well:

    ~ Childhood Auto-Immune Neutropenia (diagnosis at 1 yr old) - Her bone marrow is creating an antibody that attacks her immune system and she was on anitbiotics everyday until she was 5 years old as a preventative. She was not sick often (thankfully, as a bacterial infection has the potential to kill her) but ever since she was 1 year we would have to bring her to the ER at a 100 degree fever to have blood drawn and antibiotics given intravenously. We no longer do this but she gets sick A LOT since she has been in school. She has been in 1st grade for not even 2 weeks and already had bronchitis and is on an antibiotic. Her specialist had advised that this issue would self-resolve by the time she as 5 years old but it has not. He has no answers as to why it has not. Her white cell count is relatively low at 2.3 due to this. She has minimal protection again bacterial infections and this is always a concern.

    ~ Allergies (Environmental and very minor food) - Allergic to almost all animals (hives, breathing issues), trees, mold, dust, milk, pork, wheat and peanuts. I have been advised not to withhold any food from her because the reactions arent seen and are so small as indicated on the test results. Since learning this not too long ago I have stopped her from drinking whole milk and steer away from peanuts. These changes were easy as she was not big on either one of them. She has been diagnosed with allergy-induced asthma and recently had to get ear tubes put in because of her chronic sinusitis and recurrent ear infections. I am working with an ENT/allergist out of state and have just recently started her on sublingual immunotherapy (allergy drops under the tongue...less invasive than shots) to attempt to help her overcome some of these obstacles.

    ~ Chronic stomatitis (large mouth ulcers - since around 2 years old) - Can have many of them at a time and no doctor has been able to say why. They thought it was related to her auto-immune disease. The made it extremely painful for her to eat. Grasping at straws and trying to rid of these things I thought that maybe she was allergic to flouride. I recently put her on baby training toothpaste and low and behold these ulcers disappeared within a week! YAY....figured out one of the issues.

    There is a lot to her and I have learned over the years that I really am her only and best advocate for anything health related. I am very attentive and try to learn as much as I can about her via observation, recollection and research.

    Now I am just waiting to hear back from the psychologist to schedule her in for her first appointment. I am also waiting for a call back from her PCP. I will be requesting some of the various different evaluations (I need referrals to docs around here that can do the types of things my daughter needs) suggested by some of you guys.

    I know that this was a very long post so thanks for reading it.

    I want to thank all of you for your ears...although I am new here I feel like I have someone to talk to that can at least understand the behavioral issues I am facing.

    P.S.
    Although quite "busy" last night was a good one. I told my child that she did not deserve anyone to be mad at her all the time and that I loved her too much to get mad at her anymore. I told her that she could try and do anything she wanted to get me mad and it simply was not going to work anymore. She talks to more about how she is feeling now which is what we need...just trying to figure out which things she says are true, made up, or just plain lies now....but it is progress. She said that she wanted to make a star chart on the fridge (have tried this before with failure) for her behavior. She said she can not be mean at all in order to earn her star for the day. This tells me right here that she does not want to be mean...she can not control it. But it was a great night last night and relatively smooth morning...I enjoyed every hug and laugh I got last night!
     
  12. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hi again.

    I understand not being too happy with a diagnosis and medication. Trust me, my son was on too many and he didn't need them. I am thinking that the diagnosis opens many doors to getting our kids help so that they can learn the very things we want to teach them...they need more than just us, the parents, as helpers because in the real world, people will not alter their behavior for our children. They need specialists who can help them fit into society. We have varying degrees of luck with this, but, hey, we have to try, right?

    From being on this board for many years, it seems that behavioral charts/rewards can motivate some of our kids, but can not intrinsically change them. I agree with whomever said that if kids COULD behave they WOULD behave. I don't think any child wakes up each day thinking, "What can I do to get into trouble and upset Dad and Mom?" There are very real reasons for defiance, such as certain disorders that cause our kids to be very rigid to depression which causes anger...often that anger is thrown at those whom our kids love and trust the most.

    If (and only if) your child is actually on the autism spectrum, the earlier he gets social skills training, the better his later life will be. These kids do not pick up social cues just by being around them, at least not when they are young. Lack of social skills can lead to a very sad child, especially in school. Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) does not require medication. Usually, if medication is used, it is when the child is too out-of-control to be safe around his parents and siblings and other kids...that is the case in Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) and childhood mood disorders.

    Good luck, whatever you decide to do.
     
  13. Izzys Ma

    Izzys Ma New Member

    Thank you. I know she doesn't act out on purpose...or if she does I do not think that she can control it. I know that I need to find what is going on with her...I just wish her pediatrician would take me a little more seriously. Her rage episodes have gotten worse in the past couple of weeks to where she has hit me and thrown things at me, told she wanted to stick a knife in my heart, tried to spray me with some bathroom cleaner, tried biting me, etc....maybe it has something to do with the beginning of the school year??

    Something is wrong but I am having such a hard time getting her primary care doctor to take it seriously...I need an appointment with someone (first call was to a pediatric psychologist) but here in Massachusetts they are booking out until March of next year for new patients. Given this, I am waiting for her pediatrician to call me so I can explain to her that things have gotten physically violent with her and we need some guidance or evaluations long before then...keeping my fingers crossed.

    Thanks for your support!
     
  14. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    When it gets that bad, call 911. Just dial the number and let them hear what is going on. They will respond. Your pediatrician can't deny it if the behavior is documented by others. Having this "trail" might also get you referred to professionals a lot faster. I am so sorry you are going through this and it sounds like you just need help NOW. This is the best way to get things moving faster.
     
  15. Izzys Ma

    Izzys Ma New Member

    TeDo: It is sad to say about my 6 year old but my husband and I have both agreed that a trip to the police station to let them know whats going on and ask if they would come out when things escalate to that point again would be the next step in trying to get help. I honestly do not know what to do with her when she gets that violent. I know she is seeking a negative reaction from me. Just as an example, she was in one of her moods and thought it would be a great instigator to pour a glass of soda on the kitchen floor while staring at me in the face to upset me. Needless to say, I did not get upset. I did not give into whatever is inside of her telling her that she needs to get anger from her parents. I simply mopped it up. Then she seemed fine. Went outside with me while I took the dog out and "seemed" fine until I said we needed to go to bed...this is sooo frustrating...the doctor just doesn't seem to get it or doesnt believe me as she would never let this side of her come out in front of the docs. She seems to be a great kid everywhere else (with a little quirks and what seems to be socially related issues such as reading other people and understanding social cues). Thanks for your concern.
     
  16. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Fortunately I have never dealt with violence but I do know from the Board family that there is a specific method to be used to restrain an out of control child. How is it done? I don't know. But I do know that parents here have learned it and I do know that support personnel in schools and hospitals have learned how to restrain even large children with-o causing damage to the child or the adult.

    I know that some parents have used the police (and obviously that choice and all choices are solely up to you and your husband) however due to her size and her age I would suggest learning the restraint method and using it consistently when she gets out of control. She is not choosing to be act out with such extreme actions.

    Meanwhile are you keeping a journal? Keeping a written journal (entries do not have to be long) is extremely helpful when parenting a difficult child. Sometimes the parent "sees" patterns in their own written words that escape them in dealing day to day with stress. More importantly your journal will allow you to "show" the Doctor how frequently she is out of control, what if anything seems to trigger the behavior. and what actions she takes. Almost all of us have used journals to support our kids as we attempt to find the answers. I highly recommend it. Hugs. DDD
     
  17. Izzys Ma

    Izzys Ma New Member

    Here is somehwat good news...there was a cancellation with a LMHC and I was able to meet with her talk to her about my daughter. She gave me some suggections to use for now but does feel that she needs to be seen by a neuropsychologist and will be setting that up. She may also want her to go to an Occupational Therapist (OT). Seems like it will be a long road, but I am sure looking forward to any insight that will come out of this. Fingers are crossed!! Just figured that I would update everyone who has commented on my post.

    Thanks to everyone (((Hugs)))
     
  18. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    evaluations are coming... GOOD NEWS!

    Yes, its a challenge to get to the evaluations... but getting things booked/referals done, etc. is sometimes one of the hardest things to get.
     
  19. keista

    keista New Member

    YAY! Congratulations for getting in and getting the ball rolling!
     
  20. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    Wow you could be describing my difficult child 1 ages 3 - 10. Minus the allergies and bone marrow problems. I used a restraining hold I was taught as a sp ed teacher when he got violent. I also had a time out room. So, I would restrain him only long enough to get him into the room. Then he stayed in the room until he calmed down. I had to learn to respond with no emotion to says like "I'm going to kill myself" "I'm going to kill (insert siblings name)" When he pulled a knife on me my voice did shake a bit. I had set consequences and stuck to them. difficult child 1 needed boundaries. He needed to know that no matter what he did I would react in the way he needed and boy did he test that. I also believe that a child will do well if they can. And they need lots of positives. So, if she wants a star chart get her one. And every time she smiles at you put a star on the chart or if she does anything good (put a star on the chart because she has pretty eyes.) difficult child 1 also would get mad if I said anything nice to him. He viewed it is a type of manipulation. I continued to say nice things to him and after a few years he started to accept it.

    difficult child 1 has a few dxs. We're still sorting out if he is bipolar. He is Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) and PTSD and a secondary diagnosis (because it can be a part of both of the other dxs) is anxiety. I'm not diagnosis your daughter. I'm not a doctor. She probably has more than one diagnosis going on. It took a neuropych following difficult child 1 around for 2-3 DAYS in the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) to get the Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) diagnosis. It can be very hard to diagnosis multiple diagnosis's. difficult child 1 had seen a neuropych before and she didn't catch the dxs. Before the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) all I could get was it was a 'mood something'.

    Glad your starting the process of the evaluations and welcome to the best place on the web.
     
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