Relapse again

Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by RN0441, Sep 19, 2016.

  1. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    I need some emotional support today.

    On Friday afternoon, my son who was in sober living in Florida (third one since March) told my husband he was going to leave the place he was at because a kid stole his money and he got into a fight. My husband wanted me to call the place to see what the truth was. Felt son was possibly making this up so he could leave.

    I found out from the owner that my son failed a drug test. Had gotten benzos from a doctor there who did not know he was an addict. The owner offered to send him to a higher level of care, son said no and packed all his stuff into his (our) car. The owner knew son was high and his car was blocked in so he left it like that. There was no fight and no money stolen.

    Son denied the benzo use to husband and said the test was a false positive but we knew he was lying. He then started texting middle of the night that he was sitting outside and what should he do. He had nowhere to go, no money, etc. I had told him earlier to go to a shelter or to another facility. We were not going to pay for him to be high. He said he was DONE with all of that. No more rehab/sober living. He has been in them six months!! This is all by text.

    Saturday morning my husband was at an all day trade show and son started texting me that it's my fault I ever got him on benzos for his anxiety and that in the 70's "failed" parents would not even have a place like that to sent their kids. I told him we did not fail him, HE failed him. He left message for husband that he should be ashamed he was not paying for his college after grandpa left money to us. We do plan to help him with college IF he's SOBER.

    Then he said he was going to hang himself from a lifeguard stand on Monday if we didn't either get him a ticket home or get him a place to live. I was a nervous wreck. I called my husband (poor guy trying to work) and he said that son would never do that and to block him. I did end up blocking him.

    I texted his house manager from the first place he was at in March who I am very fond of and asked him if he would contact Jake because I was scared that he was threatening suicide. I was in a panic. What if he did do it? He said he would reach out. He later got back to me that son was at his girlfriend and could stay there through the weekend and he would touch base with him Monday (today). He said son got mad at him because he got on him. He said he has such a sense of entitlement that he's better than the rest and deserves to be catered to. He feels son is not ready to change and that he hasn't suffered enough or gotten sick of it. We are not wealthy. We did not give our son as much as lots of people we know. I don't know why he is like this.

    Son later told husband he has an interview today at Publix. Husband said get a job and go to a sober living there and call me.

    Husband is once again dealing with our son. He told me to keep him blocked for a long time. I am so thankful for this. I try not to think about this but as we all know it's so very hard.

    I now know what it feels like to go to bed and not know where my son is for the first time and it's horrible and I know that many of you deal with this. I pray for your continued strength.
     
  2. in a daze

    in a daze Well-Known Member

    It's terrible, isn't it? I pray that you and husband continue to stand together against your son's manipulations.

    He needs structure. Lots of structure. He needs a higher level of care. Girlfriend is complicating things. It seems that she is an enabler as well. She lets him stay with her, instead of insisting he go back to treatment. But she doesn't know any better. She's only eighteen, and she's in love.

    You guys are doing an amazing job. It takes so much courage not to cave into his demands! Know that you are helping him the best way you can by standing your ground. Together.

    I feel that his behavior may gradually get better as he grows and matures. But you're in it for the long haul.

    Hang in there....:staystrong:
     
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  3. worried sick mother

    worried sick mother Active Member

    I'm so sorry to hear this RN. I know how scary it is when they threaten suicide. I've always been told to call the police for a well check, maybe you should do the same especially since he's so far away. I've also been told that if someone really wants to kill themselves they don't make threats. He's trying to manipulate you to get his way. The sense of entitlement thing my son has too. I think it's their whole generation. I can't figure out why my son has it so bad and I try to do everything differently with my younger children for fear of them having it too. Seems this generation is all about instant gratification too. If you're son could realize that if he would stop relapsing he might not still be there. I think you should take the car, just my opinion but it could save his life. You're doing so good with taking care of yourself, I hope to be where you are someday. Nothing is your fault, stay strong!!!
     
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  4. Albatross

    Albatross Well-Known Member

    Oh no, RN. I am so sorry to hear he has had another relapse.

    He is just not ready to make the changes he needs to. He is still trying to deflect responsibility onto you (great response on your part, by the way!) and running from his problems.

    I can't imagine the doctor not asking him about his addiction history before he prescribed benzos. In all likelihood your son took an active and deceptive role in getting them.

    If that is the case, I think the suggestion of a higher level of care is a good one...but I wonder what good it will do if he is not ready.

    I have to say that I think girlfriend is an enabler of the first order. She is also too young and has too many of her own issues going on to give your son the kind of support he needs. She needed to tell him no, he needs to be in treatment. I don't see him doing the hard work he needs to do if she is in the picture.

    I think that was a great idea to contact the house manager and have him follow up. Many of our difficult ones threaten suicide when they are boxed in by their own choices. My son did the same thing when he checked himself out of rehab and wanted us to let him move back home. It is a hateful threat to make, but they know it will make us jump to.

    He is all right for now, RN. If he is thinking about job interviews and such, he is all right. Let hubs take care of things for now. Much peace to you today.
     
  5. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    Thanks to all of you so much for your encouraging words.

    Oh gosh when he told me how and where he'd do it I just was so scared. I felt I had to DO something even though there was truly little I could do.

    I agree with what you all said about girlfriend but she is the only person he has there and hubs thinks it's ok. In the end who really knows.

    If he's on benzos I don't know how they could even let him stay at their house. He's nuts on them. Moves constantly, looking for weed, booze or other highs. It's awful. Smokes cigarettes which he normally hates.

    I told hubs to sell the car. He said we put so much money into it for him but for him SOBER. It may come to that.

    He knows we want him to get a job but having a job (or any other thing NORMAL people do) is a trigger. If he goes to the interview on pills it's a waste of time.

    I agree if he's in treatment and isn't buying what they are selling it won't help BUT he has to BE someplace. He doesn't want to be homeless and if that's the only option we give him....I honestly don't know what to think.

    Feeling hopeless today.
     
  6. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    I'm so sorry, RNO.

    Remember that the less you do for him, the quicker he will loose that sense of entitlement and the quicker he will take ownership of his life and work to make it better.

    The more you do for him, the more he expects that you and others are obligated to make his life work. He is a young man and still has plenty of time to turn his life around. He has to realize that it is all on him.

    Not all young people have a sense of entitlement, but this is a problem for your son. We all have not-so-good traits that we have to overcome. This is his.

    Entitlement is not necessarily about "stuff" or money. Kids of all backgrounds can feel entitlement.

    I agree with the others, the girlfriend is a crutch.

    I wouldn't let him berate you or argue with you. Stop entertaining his sense of entitlement to your finances. You paying for college is a gift that he should be thankful for, not a right. He needs to realize this.

    He will likely up the ante, but stay strong.

    Apple
     
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  7. Albatross

    Albatross Well-Known Member

    Is there a middle ground? Maybe take the car back and hold it for his future (sober) self? If he is impaired, he shouldn't be driving anyway.

    We thought our son needed a car to get to jobs, but all it gave him was the means to leave rehab and make all sorts of new and unsavory "friends" who were looking for someone with a car.
     
  8. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    Husband is going to our condo in October for husbands birthday with oldest son (30). They planned to let J come there too but hubs said something about getting car from him. If he is in treatment again all will be okay but I keep feeling like we're putting a patch on a spicket.

    Girlfriend is being a crutch right now. But when he was sober they cooked together and he said he was going to start going to church with her so that sounded good to me. Honestly nothing I can do to in that regard.

    It's like something really bad is going to have to happen for him to change. Like maybe one of us drop dead from the stress. :frown:
     
  9. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    Benzos are a drug that, if addicted, one cannot safely get off of without medical help. Not only is there a risk of death from seizures, but the withdrawal is considered to be the worst of ALL drugs. The mental affects of withdrawal can literally last YEARS, and many people are never the same.

    I've studied up on this because *I* am physically dependent on benzos, courtesy of a psychiatrist who prescribed and kept me on them for many years when benzos should only be prescribed for VERY short term use.

    My current psychiatrist has chosen to keep me on them as she doesn't think I can get through even a medically supervised withdrawal.

    I do not get high on them. I was originally RXed them for Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) and insomnia that nothing else worked for. I am not considered an addict because I don't seek a high and I don't abuse my medications. I take them as RXed.

    However, on one occasion when I was hospitalized for medical reasons several years ago, the attending doctor refused to write for the benzos because he "didn't believe in them." I went into withdrawal and had a grand mal seizure. I can vouch that even early withdrawal is horrible.

    From your description of his behavior, it sounds like he is getting high to the point of blacking out. I would also lay odds that he is using alprazolam (Xanax or "bars"), or one of the "research chemical" benzo analogs, many of which are much stronger.
     
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  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I don't think he is ready or even admits to himself how sick he is. Until he really wants to stop, or has a reason to stop, he wont. That is why, as brutal for me as it was, I was willing to send my daughter out to homelrssness, of she had nobody to vouch surf with.. that car your son has is a problem while he is using. He could easily get yet another DUI for being on them. Or an accident...in my opinion your husband is playing with danger. I don't think he should be behind the wheel of a car.

    A doctor would not know if your son abuses drugs unless he is forthright. That was not your sons plan.

    Suicide threats are hard. I started to hang up and call 911 whenever my son made a threat. That embarassed him, but I take threats seriously. He doesn't say that to me anymore.

    I think very strongly that they have to live their worst nightmares to quit, including homelessness and withdrawal of our financial support. If they know we will pity them and give in here and there in my opinion it doesn't work. ADDICTION IS VERY POWERFUL. They won't quit unless they are too miserable to continue.

    The girlfriend is a problem.

    I totally not only agree but know first hand that not all or most millenials are entitled. It's just not true...most are in college or the military or working full tIme. Why particular young adults do not thrive is mystery. Most come from good families. I think a lot of it is a choice to take drugs. To thrive they must stop and people quit every day. But it has to be their choice.

    My heart hurts for you. I hope he gets tired of how hard it is to use drugs and quits. Take care of yourself please.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2016
  11. mof

    mof Momdidntsignupforthis

    RN,

    You know how I feel for you. You so much wish this isn't a story your watching unfold...excruciatingly slowly.

    Suicide threats..He was playing on your emotions. Our son wanted to kill himself everyday...and told no one...self medicated...u know the rest...his clinical death saved his life. But yes, he has growing to do too.

    I agree girl is a crutch, but a soothing one to you. I would be relieved he is safe. I believe a higher level of care too, but who knows. Sober living is for men and women who want to be sober. You know I believe that if they don't take safe medications for the mental stuff, how can they work on sobriety.

    I have also Learned the SOBRIETY does not look the same for everyone. He is safe, thank goodness for your husband and that both of you are on a United front!

    Decisions are made one day at a time. He likes his comforts, perhaps he did this hoping to come home...that might be the lesson he finally learns.

    You are strong...and supported.
     
  12. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    Thank you all.

    Son downplays everything so who knows what's going on in reality.

    I still feel him being in sober living even if he doesn't want to is better for us and him. Like his first house manager said: he needs to do the work to get out of there. So far he is using it as more of a roof over his head but does sometimes seem to be going along with program. No one should like being in sober living. It's not reality. But until it gets bad enough for him where he's so uncomfortable that he either makes a change or he stays homeless, hungry and broke.

    Ultimately he will have to decide if he wants to be in a shelter OR in care. I don't know if being in care because the only other option is homelessness is okay but it is what it is.

    Since March he has had 3 relapses. It could be worse I guess. I keep telling myself that. It seems to be every three months. That's why I think bipolar but never diagnosed. But doesn't that illness work that way?

    I know that all "kids" his age aren't like him. Our older two weren't at all, just typical. They both were hard workers and over-achievers. Our friend's sons don't act like this. I think it's the DRUG way of thinking that makes them think backwards of normal. It seems that most of us have kids thinking this way.

    I'd rather take a bullet than let him come home. There is no way that is happening - even for a visit - until he is completely changed i.e. not anytime soon.
     
  13. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    So...

    My husband called the doctor that gave son the medication. He was given 30 Tramadol with a refill. They canceled the refill.

    They said on his form he said he never drank or took pills. My husband explained that my son overdosed on Father's Day and that naturally he (or these kids) are not going to be honest if they are in there to get pills.

    He also told them he was kicked out of his rehab and is now on the streets. Not that it's their fault but they need to be more aware of what they are handing out to young people.

    What is wrong with these doctors giving young adults these types of medications?? That is half the problem with drug addiction in this country.
     
  14. mof

    mof Momdidntsignupforthis

    I'm glad you know what doctor he went to and they spoke to you considering the privacy acts. Why do they start with the bad stuff????

    I agree...there should some record , but I suppose that is a privacy thing again.

    Ugh...glad he can't get a refill
     
  15. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    A drug addict will find drugs by lying to doctors. Many people legitimately use and need benzos (I do) and opiates and you are told you can develop a dependence on which you have to wean off. Or they should be told.

    Doctors expect these people to tell the truth about their history and true complaints. Sometimes perhaps a doctor can spot an addict, but they aren't psychic and at 18 these young people are old enough for the military and are not treated as kids. Any number of legal adults of 18, 35 and 60 abuse prescription druggs. Rush Limbaugh, addicted to Oxycotin, was not a young person. He is but one of millions who abused a prescription drug. Most are not well known. by the way, I believe Limbaugh quit. Some do. Some don't.

    The doctor did not know your son's history. It is on your son to tell him. His entire life there will be doctors he can trick, emergency rooms he can fool, private homes where people in their own homes will leave their drug bottles lying around, and of course lovely peers who offer these drugs.

    I knew with daughter that it would be up to her to keep saying no. It would never be others who protected her. She would have to to be the one, often the only one, to keep herself safe. The world would not. It scared me, but she was ready so she did not give into temptation. Twelve years later she uses only natural remedies and won't even use Tylenol. Her daughter only eats fresh organic foods and cut her teeth on vegetables. This from a former meth addict. See how people can change? Even your beloved son? I thought my daughter would end up in prison or dead. I really did. I walked around crying.

    Our addicted young people can quit and when they want to, they will. Until then they will keep using without trying to stay away. It isn't the world's fault, I decided. Doctors can not know our children's history if not told.

    I, for one, am more alarmed that doctors give street drugs like Adderall to really little kids. But after age 18? The adult kids know what they are being offered and can refuse. Sho I Learning Disability (LD) refuse. Don't always refuse...

    I hope your son takes a turn toward sobriety. He is still young. The lights may go on yet..
    I will pray he gets it..soon. Meanwhile, you are doing great. This is so hard. I still remember. One never forgets. I didn't eat or sleep and worried about her, at least in back of my mind, constantly.

    Hugs to you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2016
  16. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    Husband said the doctor's office kept saying "I can't tell you anything" but kept talking. My husband is in sales so he has good people skills I guess.

    I just feel sick about all of this truly.
     
  17. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    SWOT
    When my husband wanted to call the doctor I said what are you going to do? Call every doctor office in SW Florida??

    That's how I used to think I swear.

    My husband had a long talk with him today. Again. Over and over. Same message we give him. We told him he has to find sober living on his own and get a job to pay. We're not doing this anymore. Also he told him he has to get a sponsor so when he has urges he has someone to talk to. My husband is finally getting it. He never talked to son like this before. Mainly out of anger before.

    So hard for parents to know how to deal with this. I know you remember. How could anyone ever forget this??
     
  18. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Trust me. I still see my daughter, skinny as a rod, with sunken eyes, gray skin and spots on her face saying, "why don't you believe me I don't take drugs!!!"

    When I see her now, plump (her normal body build) with healthy skin, I still shiver at the pock marks she has from using meth. I feel everyone's pain. I hate addiction!! Addiction sucks!!
     
  19. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    And tramadol, originally sold under the name Ultram, was first pushed as a non-addictive pain medication. Turns out that not only is it addictive, it also acts as a SNRI anti-depressal, so its got an awful withdrawal.

    What does your son need pain medications for? If 50 mg of tramadol will handle his pain, it's likely that 3 ibuprofen will as well.

    Tramadol in higher doses will get some people high. However, with dosing over 300-400 mg per day, there is a seizure risk.

    Now that this doctor has been informed of your son's drug and drink issues, has he acted in any way upon them? I drink maybe 3-4 times a year. ONE drink when I do drink. I also take no street drugs, not even marijuana. My psychiatrist up here, of course, didn't believe me. I had to submit to a hair test before she would prescribe for me. Luckily, my PCP up north was covering my medications until my psychiatrist here decided she would take me on, and I STILL had to sign a "contract".
     
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  20. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    He lied and said he had kidney pain. He did have kidney surgery many years ago to fix a minor birth defect but that's it. They know now that he was lying.

    Doctor canceled refill. He's supposed to go tomorrow to get a physical there. This is the kid that's terribly worried about skin cancer but he'll take pills he doesn't need!
     
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