scene with-the ex argh!!

[Jena]

hi

i hope everyone's having a peaceful sunday.

difficult child's in the bubble bath right now, so i had to share this tale. I told exh a while back we are returning to outside pick up drop off as it was years ago. For us it was a multitude of reasons. He's crossing my boundaries and i do not feel comfortable with-him in my space (abusive marriage with-him; mainly verbal yet looked to throw stuff at me to hurt me), also due to difficult child who is fixated on him and i remarrying someday for the past ten years. We have been divorced ten years. Her seeing him in our space just isnt' good for her.

We had a few run in's with-him whereas my husband wasn't home and i asked exh to leave via text and he wouldn't. Very uncomfortable.

today he picks her up from outside, total attitude on him. I'm already sensing there will be issues at drop off. they go. they return i go outside to meet them. difficult child does not look at all happy. she goes in house. he says he wants to talk to me etc.

asks me why he cant' come in house. i told him the reasons yet again for 3rd time. does his whole i'm in charge thing with-difficult child, what docs she going to etc. meanwhile man has never once gone to a family therapy session, or pysch appointment.

and difficult child comes out to say bye to him, asks him why can't you come in. i say dad has to go somewhere, etc. let's go in you gotta get a bath i'll do your nails, and we have dinner cooking. i leave them to say goodbye.

next thing i know he's in my house, opened front door and begins walking in with-difficult child. saying why won't you let me come in your just hurting her, etc. being loud. i dropped immediately what i was doing in kitchen, grabbed my dog with whom does not like exh and walked towards door. he than backed himself out of the house.

i went outside and said to difficult child i'm so glad you had a great day now go inside. he continued i walked away and closed the door and he went away finally. than he texted me and harrassed me for an hr following leaving.

also he promised difficult child a singstand she spent week obsessing about it, dreaming about it. he took her to toys r us and said if it's over 70 i'm not getting it, meanwhile he knew the price. it was 74.99 and well let's just say she's been crying for an hour over that and also what he did. instead she got a barbie.

husband and i agreed we'd wait till this happened to get husband involved. yet at this point i'm thinking back to court i go. i can't have these types of scenes with-this child trying to get better. All the texts were bashing me, my parenting, why do you handle her like she's a guinea pig?? he hates medications, diagnosis's, says there is nothing wrong with-her still besides not eating.

so, instead of her having a nice calm dad visit she got this. i always said to myself when the day comes that he begins to verbally attack her if ever during visitation or begins his bs at my door i'll go back to court.

she loves him, always has, she does enjoy her time with him. yet wow to today

 

[JJJ]

I would go back to court and have pick up/drop offs done at a supervised location (police station, visitation center, etc). Neither of you need this. Your husband should NOT get involved, he is legally no one in this situation and it will only backfire on you.

 

[Jena]

exh is scared of him. husband talking to him might do the trick. i won't put difficult child thru police station thing. yet i will get my order of protection renewed. great idea!

 

[mstang67chic]

I honestly wouldn't get your husband involved. Nothing against him but it could cause more trouble than it's worth. Besides...."technically" he has no part in this other than living in the house. Just my opinion but I would just skip the husband card and go straight to JJJ's suggestion.

 

[Marguerite]

I agree with not getting husband involved. Just because exH is scared of him - it would be an unhealthy short-term solution only, again based on fear and threats. I know your aim is not to provide therapy for exH, so using threats etc probably makes no difference, but it does send bad messages to difficult child as well, that if you want someone to do what you want, you just need a big enough stick.

Fair enough, you feel the police station for handover could be too confrontational for difficult child. But there are other options and frankly, the best way to get a firm but non-aggressive message across to exH is to totally take yourselves out of the firing line. It also means that a third party gets involved, which means a witness to his bad behaviour. That also has to work to your advantage.

He's a bully, using salami tactics to wear you down (walking in to your home even after you've said no; nagging loudly in front of your daughter - all very unhealthy). He's trying to bully you into backing down and letting him have his way. He's also bullying his daughter, trying to control her. And that will not help her eating issues now.

Don't stand for this. But respond officially. That way the cops, or the court, or someone in authority, is the person he has to deal with.

Leave the big stick of husband for those possible times when exH tries to invade your personal space. Because that is husband's space too, and then he has a right.

Marg

 

[Jena]

hi i'm so freaking tired today honestly. stupid dog just knocked into a bunch of junk in kitchen and had to clean up glass everywhere. ugh.

i'd never ever let difficult child know husband had to talk to dad, ever. yet when he acts this way i dont' know what he'll say to difficult child. therapist at hospital said your daughter says your ex bashes you alot to her. great. they said this intensifies her anxiety bigtime. great again. me, i never say a bad word about him. ever. it's my rule. you only hurt the kids when you do that. no one else.

i don't even know if an order of protection from a decade ago can be renewed probably not. as far as a new one goes i can't say he threatened me, he didn't. and he didnt' break order because it's old and probably expired. i'l have to call courts out here tmrw and see what i can find out. he needs to be served immediately. i just wish he'd go away. i really do.

i just wish he'd stop being who he is. now that would be great. if only. i spent so much time in court with-this man years ago it's the last thing i want to do. trust me. yet i will honestly kill him if he ever goes against my word again and walks into my home. sorry pyscho i know yet i am serious.

as far as husband goes that is why he wanted to get involved while back. exh had been getting very volatile with me verbally attacking me etc. when difficult child was in the hospital and he didn't like the way things were going. then he didn't leave that one time when i asked him to via text. he stayed and hour and a half past the time i asked him to leave. difficult child and i spent afternoon in e.r. to get her hydrated after she passed out than i had to contend with-him.

it's such a shame after a decade of divorce. he needs alot of help and will never get it. his families sick too. they mean well yet their annoying, self serving, all a mess. mental illness isn't bad if you treat it, it is like anything else just is. yet left untreated and when you do harm onto others due to your lack of ability to anti up and say ok i have a problem. than it's just absurd. this is a perfect example of an adult difficult child with whom never took the time to get the help he so desperately needed.

 

[Jena]

i'm sitting here just glancing over my few threads this weekend. damn i need a drink!! how insane has this weekend been? me and difficult child need a vacation. funny thing is thru all the town carpy ppl and well unwell dad we still manage to laugh. how i do not know yet we truly do. i gave her a bath did her nails we joked around a bit to get her to stop crying over the stand she wanted. i'll tell you for a kid that has more diagnosis's than i could ever imagine she has one awesome sense of humor. she really "gets" my jokes and sarcasm.

 

[Bunny]

I'm sorry that your daughter's visit ended that way. It's not fair to her that he bashes you to her. How is she supposed to take that you? You're her mother and she loves you, but her father someone whom she adores, is saynig really nasty things about you. That can only increase her anxiety level, which is already very high. I don't have an answer for you, though. I have no experience with this. I just hope that he gets his act together for your daughter's sake.

Pam

 

[Mamaof5]

He's doing the parent alienation syndrome dance with you. http://www.fact.on.ca/Info/info_pas.htm

You fall a little but under the 3rd criteria (Criteria III: Deterioration in Relationship Since Separation) http://www.fact.on.ca/Info/pas/walsh99.htm

He's trying to deteriorate your relationship with your daughter by deteriorating mutual parental partnership (despite the decade of divorce there will always be that parental partnership). I'd go back to court regardless of the stress it may cause and not get husband involved. That could hurt your case in court. I'm so sorry he's being such a pita. He really can't see how much he's hurting your daughter more than he is you? Or does he even care at his point?

 

[Marguerite]

We spent the weekend before last at my niece's wedding. She's about 40 and getting married for the first time. Her parents split up 25 years ago after 25 years of marriage. My sister caught him (at last) cheating on her. After the divorce he married one of his mistresses and then ensued the tug back and forth on the kids. Oldest son refused to have anything to do with his father, and all the kids were old enough to have their choice. Only the girls (also the two youngest) were ever prepared to even talk to their father. He was (is) a user who just wants someone at his beck and call.
Then his second wife died (cancer). Immediately he was round to see my sister, asking her to take him back. Luckily she had met someone else (at last).
But the wedding - my niece wanted her father there. I don't know why, he's a waste of space. But we respected that, we were polite and friendly to him. But he is even more a jerk than ever. He had a number or choice remarks to people, but perhaps the classic was the way he introduced his current lady - "she's the replacement for my second wife. But it's OK, at least she's not [minority group]".

Charming.

What I'm saying here - some people don't know how to behave, no matter how much time passes or what they endure. ExBIL was back behaving the nasty, mean ay he always had, and leaving nasty taste in people's mouths at what should have been a joyous occasion. Making crass, sexual remarks during the ceremony was a bit much too.

Some people don't change. And your ex is another in the same mould.

The best you can do is what my sister did - insulate yourself as much as possible and only deal with him where you must, and through channels as official as possible to reduce the need for personal interaction and opportunity for him to hurt you further.

If a friend of yours, someone you knew, started behaving this way, you would have legal recourse. He failed to leave after you asked him to; you have asked him t not come into your home and he keeps doing it. I think you have grounds for protection order, even if you have to start from scratch.

Marg

 

[DammitJanet]

Your divorce agreement and/or custody order are still in effect unless you have gone back to court to get them changed or revised. The PO is over unless it was a lifetime order which I would doubt unless it was a very serious case...only very rare get lifetime orders.

You should never put your current spouse in the position of "talking" to your ex unless everyone gets along famously. You do not want to send one to threaten the other. Your current husband has no standing as a parent to your children. You are the mother, your ex is the father. Courts and cops get real sticky about steps getting involved. Real sticky.

It is much better to look at that old custody order and see what it says. If it says that he is to pick her up and drop her off at xxx time on xxx days..well email him or send him a certified letter telling him that from now on that drop offs and pick ups will be done at the police station. You dont have to go in, just meet in the parking lot. Tons of folks do it that way. Large cities have visitation centers you can do it at but you have to find one. Call social services. You could do it at the mall or at McDonalds or any public place. If all else fails, go to legal aid and see if you can have them draft a letter to him stating this. It is completely legal.

 

[graceupongrace]

Jena,

You might want to review your divorce decree. Many have standard language about one parent not bashing the other (OK, that's not exactly the legal language, but you get my drift, lol). If yours has that language, exh could be found in contempt of court. by the way, sorry you're having to deal with all that koi on top of everything else. My heart goes out to you.

 

[AnnieO]

FWIW - if you asked him, even verbally, but especially written (email & text are nice for this), to NOT come in your house and he did anyway - that is TRESPASSING.

It is NOT his home.

Please, for the love of heaven, leave husband out of this. Or if you MUST involve him (and I do know, as a step-parent, he is at least somewhat involved), have him answer the door when ex shows up. Don't go ANY further. It WILL backfire on you. (I am a step-parent... been there done that!)

If ex still acts like this, you may be able to have the court hold him in contempt for making derogatory remarks about you to difficult child.

And if he thinks "nothing is wrong" - he is welcome to get a second opinion, at his own expense. Until he does (which I do not see him doing, given his lack of participation in her diagnosis/treatment to date), he has no room to talk about anything.

And if he EVER threatens you? Call the COPS. Do not worry about difficult child on this one. Do NOT let him threaten.

HUGS!

 

[JJJ]

He's doing the parent alienation syndrome dance with you. http://www.fact.on.ca/Info/info_pas.htm

You fall a little but under the 3rd criteria (Criteria III: Deterioration in Relationship Since Separation) http://www.fact.on.ca/Info/pas/walsh99.htm

He's trying to deteriorate your relationship with your daughter by deteriorating mutual parental partnership (despite the decade of divorce there will always be that parental partnership). I'd go back to court regardless of the stress it may cause and not get husband involved. That could hurt your case in court. I'm so sorry he's being such a pita. He really can't see how much he's hurting your daughter more than he is you? Or does he even care at his point?

Whoa!! Please do not use PAS in any court arguments or in any discussions with professionals. It is a completely discredited 'syndrome'. It came out that the man who invented it was in favor of child sexual abuse and used the syndrome to 'protect' fathers who molested their children,

 

[Mamaof5]

Whoa!! Please do not use PAS in any court arguments or in any discussions with professionals. It is a completely discredited 'syndrome'. It came out that the man who invented it was in favor of child sexual abuse and used the syndrome to 'protect' fathers who molested their children,

I didn't know that at all...otherwise I wouldn't have even suggested such a thing. Holy Hannah! Thanks for letting me know. I'm floored, do you have links about it so I can send them other people's ways so that they are fully informed about this as well. Wow, when did they discredit this...I'm not usually out of the loop like that. Thanks JJJ

 

[hearts and roses]

Jen, each time that you allow your exh to mistreat you in front of or around any of your children, step or bio, you are teaching them that his behavior is acceptable on some level.

If he is bad mouthing you to difficult child, in front of difficult child, being confrontational about issues that should be discussed in private between the two of you with a court mediator, he is being abusive and behaving inappropriately. This is very VERY bad for difficult child to witness.

As a human being, especially one with a history of being in an emotionally abusive relationship with exh, this is an opportunity for you to teach difficult child about healthy boundaries. She may not fully understand why you need to have a supervised pick up and drop off location right this minute, but you need to be honest with her about exh's behavior. She needs to KNOW that his behavior is unacceptable and inappropriate for all of you.

He invaded your space, he tresspassed into your home after you told him he was not allowed inside. You need to explain to difficult child WHY so she understands YOUR behavior and reactions to her father. Jen, you cannot continue to gloss over the obvious confrontational relationship you have with exh if you expect her to have a relationship with him. It will never be normal, but as a young girl, your difficult child needs to have lessons on how to create healthy boundaries for herself - and you are the teacher. You are modeling behavior that she will use one day. Be honest with her about this. I really think this is important.

I also agree that you should go back to court and get something documented about a pick up and drop off location - it could be in a supermarket parking lot, it doesn't need to be at a police station since he's not physically threatening you in any way. There are a lot of divorced couples who make the exchange in a public location and not at one another's homes. I also agree that you don't want husband to be involved unless he invades HIS personal space, such as if exh walks into your home while husband is there, husband can certainly stand up and escort him outside and reiterate to him that he is not welcome inside the home. That would be okay, but I don't think you should rely on husband to be the long arm of the law in terms of 'talking' with exh. Just not a good thing, especially for difficult child. You don't want husband to be perceived as bullying her dad, Know what I mean?? Add to the fact that it's a heavy burden for husband to have to carry as well AND exh is not a reasonable person, so it's more likely that having husband talk with him may get his hair up and make matters worse. Instead, just cut to the chase and get it all done in court so it's legal and there isn't any of the he said/he said business. It's cleaner that way.

Hugs, Jen, you haven't had it easy for a while now.

 

[JJJ]

There are a lot of links about this: http://www.google.com/search?client...=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=499faa430ac3503f

 

[Jena]

hi

thanks guys. first chance i got today to read thru these quick. gotta go make beds for all kids and get them in it now.

ok funny one about that syndrome thing! good catch there! sorry my sick sense of humor tha'Tourette's Syndrome all i gotta say in court or anywhere near it! LOL

i'm just tired now been long day. i posted on another thread C passed out today again so we were spending day at e.r. again. i think alot of what he did contributed to the anxiety hence the not drinking shakes. hoonestly i'd prefer him to get into a quick clean car accident yet i know that isn't giong to happen. so for now i text him he wont' be seeing her this week due to her being unstable again. he sent me some bashing texts, etc.

for now the plan is limit contact as much as i can. she calls him ea. night but i may be able to engage her to not think about it and miss that call. stop all visits for now. than regroup and think how i will proceed. i dont' have time for court now i gotta really work on medications and getting shakes down her again.

you guys are the best by the way. be lost in my cup of **** with-o all the great insight.

 

[Farmwife]

I whole heartedly agree with hearts and roses.

From my experience a protective order is complicated with a divorce decree as the protection order cannot supercede parental rights unless parent is a threat to child. Most protective order hearing judges don't want to touch a custody agreement with a 10 foot pole. Best bet is emergency hearing or injunction to modify custody. PITA!

Document everything, you will need it.

*You can text to your email addy to get printable copies of his abusive texts and harrasment.
*Document a history of his behavior and violations of your boundaries, also things he says or does to or around difficult child that are questionable. A simple date, time and description should do.
*Get written proof from whoever your daughter confided in that he bashes you.
*Document difficult child's moods and outbursts ect. in conjunction with events in her life. For my difficult child we do a simple smiley, flat or frowney face for a.m. noon and p.m. That's it, 3 simple faces a day to log his moods. HOWEVER when you match up more and more frowneys to days she sees ex...you have a demonstrable pattern. My difficult child used to fall apart on days we even mentioned his bio, not even in a negative way either.

In a perfect world divorced parents should rise above their own drama and co-parent. In a perfect world kids should have free access to their non custodial parent. Well, let me be the first to tell you this aint a perfect world. I fought difficult child's meltdowns for 3 years over JUST my ex before I said, "hey wait a minute here, that's enough!" My ex has major issues that make difficult child's issues worse. Of course everyone thinks I am some sort of cold calculating she-beast for doing so but I had to draw the line. If ex contributed to difficult child's problems and wasn't going to be a part of the solution he had to go, and he did. His loss, we are better off now too.

Your ex sounds like a bully just like my ex. The kind that uses manipulation, mind games, aggressive behavior and mini tantrums to control people. They wear you down just like a difficult child can where you are too weak to tell them to back the heck up.

He also sounds like his behavior is demonstrably damaging to your difficult child, something I suspect the court would frown upon if you came forward with a lot of evidence against him. (documentation) Though you may not be able to push something as wonderful as supervised visits, which it sounds like he should have, you may be able to push family counseling since he clearly is not an effective parent. He is only going to damage your difficult child further.

Seriously, what kind of sick piece of filth torments a poor seriously ill girl at the toy store knowing all along he will let her down and leave her torn up inside? She was just picked up from the hospital from hades in a miserable scene a couple weeks ago. Was the few moments of her happiness, smiles and enthusiasm for her Daddy and his stolen ego boost worth emotionally torturing her over a toy? I may sound dramatic but he really emotionally victimized a very vulnerable child. SHAME on him. I can only imagine how she feels. My daddy broke promises to me and I wasn't vulnerable like her...I still don't trust or like him decades later.

Finally, although your husband has no business intervening on difficult child's behalf I have to be the one person who disagrees with keeping him out of things. A man, your ex, violated your husband's home, disrespected his wife and did all of it like a coward when he was away from home. If my ex pulled that on me my husband would tear him a new one, on my behalf alone, forget about difficult child. A man does not take kindly to another man getting macho like that with his lady on his turf. It's disrespectful and insulting. It's like a strange dog making tinkle in another dogs yard, even stupid animals know better. He should not do anything to make you look bad in the court BUT telling him he can't defend HIS WIFE essentially emasculates him. At a time when he feels pushed away because of difficult child issues this may just further alienate him, a nice way for the ex to cause you marital drama...

I ditto the car accident idea.