Twisted - Just twisted.....
- Thread starter Star*
- Start date
Fran
Former desparate mom
His behavior was without conscience. There really is nothing I could even suggest other than to not answer the phone
from him anymore. If at 20 he is trying to torture you then you will have to chose to allow him that sort of power
or not over you.
There is a difference between difficult child stupid, difficult child impulsive, difficult child explosive and just plain intentional torture.
Delete phone numbers and stop answering his phone calls. He is several states away with no money so
you are relatively safe for a while.
It doesn't mean you don't love him and it doesn't mean you don't hope that he finds his way back from the "dark side" of a personality disorder
but you have to protect yourself. You haven't given up on him but he isn't showing signs of progress.
I'm sorry for you. I get so angry when I hear stories like this that I want to shake him until his teeth rattle but we know we can't change them.
All we can do is model the right behavior, teach, encourage and then disengage.
Hugs. He is a bu** head.
from him anymore. If at 20 he is trying to torture you then you will have to chose to allow him that sort of power
or not over you.
There is a difference between difficult child stupid, difficult child impulsive, difficult child explosive and just plain intentional torture.
Delete phone numbers and stop answering his phone calls. He is several states away with no money so
you are relatively safe for a while.
It doesn't mean you don't love him and it doesn't mean you don't hope that he finds his way back from the "dark side" of a personality disorder
but you have to protect yourself. You haven't given up on him but he isn't showing signs of progress.
I'm sorry for you. I get so angry when I hear stories like this that I want to shake him until his teeth rattle but we know we can't change them.
All we can do is model the right behavior, teach, encourage and then disengage.
Hugs. He is a bu** head.
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
After having time to calm down, I think dealing with this with calm detachment is the way to go. If you ever get a set address to send some of his normal clothing I would send them down. The things he could use in Fl. Not winter stuff. No real need there. That would be excess weight and postage for you. You can store them in the shed in case he ever grows a brain. (Maybe a year or so)
I would screen his calls completely. Or tell him one time that he has the opportunity to call you one day a week at a set time and thats it. If something were to happen to him, the authorities would get in touch with you somehow. And not by some strange text message.
I would do no more of these 4 am runs to the train station. He has pulled your strings like a puppet too many times now with that expectation only to have no Dude on the train. He knew good and well he wasnt going to be on that train! Enough.
He cant think of anyone else but himself right now. Maybe someday he will learn to do that but right now, its not there. Give him some time to grow. Its all you can do. Nothing else is working.
I would screen his calls completely. Or tell him one time that he has the opportunity to call you one day a week at a set time and thats it. If something were to happen to him, the authorities would get in touch with you somehow. And not by some strange text message.
I would do no more of these 4 am runs to the train station. He has pulled your strings like a puppet too many times now with that expectation only to have no Dude on the train. He knew good and well he wasnt going to be on that train! Enough.
He cant think of anyone else but himself right now. Maybe someday he will learn to do that but right now, its not there. Give him some time to grow. Its all you can do. Nothing else is working.
Star--
I shared your post with husband...
He commented that if he had received such a phone call--and discovered that the caller still had both legs attached when husband found him?....the caller would not have both legs still attached when husband left him.
We really hate that Dude did this to you. I hope there is some way he will learn how cruel this was.
I shared your post with husband...
He commented that if he had received such a phone call--and discovered that the caller still had both legs attached when husband found him?....the caller would not have both legs still attached when husband left him.
We really hate that Dude did this to you. I hope there is some way he will learn how cruel this was.
N
Nomad
Guest
I forgot. He's in another state, correct? Well, perhaps you can send some things he might need right away, store some things of value and the rest consider donating. I too would greatly limit phone calls. Please know we are here for you no matter what you decide to do. You have our good thoughts. We all know how very very hard this is. (hugs).
donna723
Well-Known Member
Star, maybe I'm just hardnosed but I wouldn't be sending his stuff at all if it was me. What he did to you was deliberate and blatant and intentionally hurtful - he's playing games with you so he can watch you jump. He's got a h*ll of a lot of nerve to expect any favors out of you now. And packing up all his belongings and spending your own money to ship them off to him is a huge expensive FAVOR and he has no right to expect that! You owe him nothing now ... all bets are off after that stunt he pulled. You went waaaay beyond what most parents would have ever done and he repaid your love and generosity by doing THAT! I'd toss his stuff in a shed, turn off the phone, and let him figure out for himself where HE went wrong.
trinityroyal
Well-Known Member
Star, I am having trouble finding words as well. I am aghast and appalled, just stunned. I really don't know what to say.
Sending you many hugs my friend.
Trinity
Sending you many hugs my friend.
Trinity
N
Nomad
Guest
I am interested in what Donna said...for you and for myself.
There are no right or wrong answers with such things, I believe.
I do think our kids need to feel logical consequences, we need to avoid getting our emotions tide up in their behaviors and I think we should avoid hurting ourselves. And spending money you don't have for difficult children mistakes...hmmmm. something to think about.
In an earlier post you said you were thinking of sending his stuff including his Easter Basket. That hit me hard.
I have a small Easter gift for my difficult child. The other day I mentioned it to her. This is after we have set up some firm boundaries and she is noticing them.
Anyway, ya know what? After I mentioned the Easter Basket she SMIRKED. Not a nice smile...but a weird smirk.
It bothered me A LOT!
Sort of like "see, no matter how inappropriate my behavior, you will still love me and do nice things for me." Ewwww.
I wish my other was still alive...someone who loved me unconditionally. It is a treasure...never something to be taken advantage of and abused.
Well, it is a hard and confusing lesson. One that is hard for me to even comprehend.
Some folks just don't know what they have until it is lost and then we can only hope and pray that even then they figure it all out.
There are no right or wrong answers with such things, I believe.
I do think our kids need to feel logical consequences, we need to avoid getting our emotions tide up in their behaviors and I think we should avoid hurting ourselves. And spending money you don't have for difficult children mistakes...hmmmm. something to think about.
In an earlier post you said you were thinking of sending his stuff including his Easter Basket. That hit me hard.
I have a small Easter gift for my difficult child. The other day I mentioned it to her. This is after we have set up some firm boundaries and she is noticing them.
Anyway, ya know what? After I mentioned the Easter Basket she SMIRKED. Not a nice smile...but a weird smirk.
It bothered me A LOT!
Sort of like "see, no matter how inappropriate my behavior, you will still love me and do nice things for me." Ewwww.
I wish my other was still alive...someone who loved me unconditionally. It is a treasure...never something to be taken advantage of and abused.
Well, it is a hard and confusing lesson. One that is hard for me to even comprehend.
Some folks just don't know what they have until it is lost and then we can only hope and pray that even then they figure it all out.
trinityroyal
Well-Known Member
Nomad, this really hit home with me. I think that with a lot of our difficult children we have to be 100% clear, 100% of the time. Even with the boundaries you've set up, if you're still doing something nice for your difficult child then it blurs the boundaries a little bit.
I've often said that my difficult child is binary. An expectation is either all on or it's all off. Sometimes people want to go easy on him, give him a break, bend a rule a bit for him, but it always ends in disaster. If the rule or expectation is slackened even a bit, it's as though it never existed. It does him no good to be easy with him.
Star, I think that Dude might be the same way. It's all or nothing, and by his behaviour, he's chosen nothing.
I'm so very sorry.
Trinity
SearchingForRainbows
Active Member
Star,
I had to read this twice - The first time I was absolutely speechless - Dude's behavior is so cruel and abusive!!! It is time for you to detach, to stop being available for Dude 24/7. I wouldn't bother shipping him his "garbage." However, I would get it all out of the house!!! Donate it to charity. It's Dude's problem, not yours.
It is time for you to take care of yourself, put your needs/wants first for once. You deserve to be happy!!!
Thinking of you and hoping tomorrow is a much better day... Many hugs... SFR
I had to read this twice - The first time I was absolutely speechless - Dude's behavior is so cruel and abusive!!! It is time for you to detach, to stop being available for Dude 24/7. I wouldn't bother shipping him his "garbage." However, I would get it all out of the house!!! Donate it to charity. It's Dude's problem, not yours.
It is time for you to take care of yourself, put your needs/wants first for once. You deserve to be happy!!!
Thinking of you and hoping tomorrow is a much better day... Many hugs... SFR
Estherfromjerusalem
Well-Known Member
Oh Star, our children can be so cruel. I am so sorry he is putting you through this. It's all well and good to say "detach detach" but it is so difficult to practice. I feel for you. I have no advice to offer you, since I am just flabbergasted that he could behave so badly. I think the bottom line is that you have to put your own health first, as much as possible. That sounds feeble, but I can't really think what you can do, other than make sure that you yourself stay in as good shape as you can, and look after yourself.
Sending you a huge hug,
Love, Esther
Sending you a huge hug,
Love, Esther
Star*
call 911........call 911
Dear Family,
Thank you so much for the words of wisdom. It seems when your heart hurts? It tends to cloud your perceptions of what is "if you love me you'll do this, and what is drawing the line in your own sand for personal boundaries." I'm doing better thanks.
Not sure what I'm going to do. I did not answer a phone call from him for the first time in my life. Yup. Sat and cried for 30 minutes too. Bugger. Wish this would just happen without me feeling like I had to get angry or so indifferent about the situation. It should just be like - OH, there's a call from Dude, I don't want to talk right now so I won't. Not, OHhhhhhhhhh there's another call from DUde.....when he calls it makes my guts tie up in knots and gives me hours of things to be upset about - he's a jerk, he's selfish, he's mean, he only ever wants something from me, I'll be up all night or grinding my teeth to the bone and crying if I take that call...then for hours after - thinking - I wonder what he wanted.....is he okay? I wonder if he needed some sound advice....no he's only calling to get something....he only calls when he needs something - you know that. DUmmy...."
I mean my brain is like SHUT UP BRAIN. I swear if I started drinking wine now? I'd have to bring a flask to work.
Thank you so much for the words of wisdom. It seems when your heart hurts? It tends to cloud your perceptions of what is "if you love me you'll do this, and what is drawing the line in your own sand for personal boundaries." I'm doing better thanks.
Not sure what I'm going to do. I did not answer a phone call from him for the first time in my life. Yup. Sat and cried for 30 minutes too. Bugger. Wish this would just happen without me feeling like I had to get angry or so indifferent about the situation. It should just be like - OH, there's a call from Dude, I don't want to talk right now so I won't. Not, OHhhhhhhhhh there's another call from DUde.....when he calls it makes my guts tie up in knots and gives me hours of things to be upset about - he's a jerk, he's selfish, he's mean, he only ever wants something from me, I'll be up all night or grinding my teeth to the bone and crying if I take that call...then for hours after - thinking - I wonder what he wanted.....is he okay? I wonder if he needed some sound advice....no he's only calling to get something....he only calls when he needs something - you know that. DUmmy...."
I mean my brain is like SHUT UP BRAIN. I swear if I started drinking wine now? I'd have to bring a flask to work.
gcvmom
Here we go again!
Drawing that line does not mean you don't love him or don't care about him. It DOES mean you care about yourself enough to say no to unhealthy behaviors, and you care enough about him to teach him how you expect to be treated. Don't hold onto any shame or guilt you may feel about ignoring his unreasonable demands. Feel it, but then let it go immediately, because it does not keep you healthy and it does not teach him anything if you hold onto it and let it influence your decisions. Hold onto your own personal POWER to take care of yourself. And then let the rest go.
((((Hugs))))
((((Hugs))))
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
Star...I have so been where you are. Still am sometimes.
I still fight the sinking feeling when I see a 671 number on my phone and I dont know who it is. Thats the first three numbers for the jail. Or lord I get a knot in my belly when I get a call from the hospital and I know no one should be there! All kinds of horrible thoughts go through my head. Who has been in a wreck, who has been shot? Ugh. Whats bad...normally its a call from billing or the patient reps asking how I found their customer service last time I was there! LOL.
Even now, I worry if I call Cory's number several times and I dont get an answer. I worry...why isnt he home? He should be home. Where is he? Then I tell myself...STOP. Not your business. His problems. I go back to sleep and figure he will be just fine...and he is.
I worry about Billy on the road driving. Lordy do I worry about that one! I cant do a thing about it though. I have to sit back and watch from the side lines. The boy is venturing out farther and farther. He has actually met a woman with two kids...one of them autistic! Talk about worry! Just what I need...a step-grandchild that is autistic! Gulp. Leave it to him to find that woman though...lol.
So...worrying comes natural, its how we respond to the worry that is important. You cant let Dude control your life. You sure arent controlling his. He isnt worrying about you at all! You only come into his mind when he needs something...I promise you. If you can answer his calls without obsessing about him...go for it but if they are going to make your blood pressure soar then dont. If you can just listen to him blather on as if he was some stranger who was telling tall tales and trying to sell you comic books which you werent going to buy...well that is well and good but if he is going to get your panties in a twist and cause you to get all upset, not a good idea to talk to him much.
Maybe email him or text him. He seems to have access somehow. Just a short text. Hi dude. Hope all his well. Mom. Or better yet. Hi Dude, Im in a better place. Someone will contact you for details, mom. LOL
I still fight the sinking feeling when I see a 671 number on my phone and I dont know who it is. Thats the first three numbers for the jail. Or lord I get a knot in my belly when I get a call from the hospital and I know no one should be there! All kinds of horrible thoughts go through my head. Who has been in a wreck, who has been shot? Ugh. Whats bad...normally its a call from billing or the patient reps asking how I found their customer service last time I was there! LOL.
Even now, I worry if I call Cory's number several times and I dont get an answer. I worry...why isnt he home? He should be home. Where is he? Then I tell myself...STOP. Not your business. His problems. I go back to sleep and figure he will be just fine...and he is.
I worry about Billy on the road driving. Lordy do I worry about that one! I cant do a thing about it though. I have to sit back and watch from the side lines. The boy is venturing out farther and farther. He has actually met a woman with two kids...one of them autistic! Talk about worry! Just what I need...a step-grandchild that is autistic! Gulp. Leave it to him to find that woman though...lol.
So...worrying comes natural, its how we respond to the worry that is important. You cant let Dude control your life. You sure arent controlling his. He isnt worrying about you at all! You only come into his mind when he needs something...I promise you. If you can answer his calls without obsessing about him...go for it but if they are going to make your blood pressure soar then dont. If you can just listen to him blather on as if he was some stranger who was telling tall tales and trying to sell you comic books which you werent going to buy...well that is well and good but if he is going to get your panties in a twist and cause you to get all upset, not a good idea to talk to him much.
Maybe email him or text him. He seems to have access somehow. Just a short text. Hi dude. Hope all his well. Mom. Or better yet. Hi Dude, Im in a better place. Someone will contact you for details, mom. LOL
Hound dog
Nana's are Beautiful
Starbie
Soooo easy to get pulled into that vortex of worry, the kind that doesn't let your brain let go of it no matter what the heck you're doing. I know, been doing that with Nichole and I haven't done it in the past several years. Actually I'm doing it worse than I ever did before and I'm not exactly sure why that is. Maybe because she pulled such a huge dilly this time around......maybe it's because I've already been under a ton of stress.......maybe it's because she's not a kid and I can't just haul her fanny where it needs to be for treatment.......or maybe it's because she has a fairly serious mental disorder.........or maybe/probably the combination of all of those things.
I do think it's harder (tons harder) when they've had a period of time when they have done so much better than ever before. I've come to admit to myself that I'd almost fooled myself that Nichole really wasn't a difficult child but her first major downward spiral was purely situational. How's that for hiding your head in the sand?? Never thought I could be that good at denial.....but evidently I can be just as good about it as everyone else. sigh I guess no parent wants to believe their kid has serious mental disorders, even when it stares them in the face. It's scary as hades thinking of them facing that life, especially one day when we're not around. (for me anyway)
Been doing alot of thinking about my grandma over these past weeks. Seriously, I don't know how she did it. She had at one time 4 major difficult children plus a husband like your ex....perhaps worse than your ex but they were in the same league. Two difficult children seemed to outgrow it and did wonderfully turning out to be pillars of the community, excellent husbands and fathers. My aunt and my Mom............that was a whole other story. Of course my uncles didn't truly have a mental illness. More like young and wild and a touch dumb until they matured.
I was very little once when I asked Grandma why her apartment didn't have a bedroom. It was the upstairs of a duplex and the bed pulled out of the wall in the livingroom. She told me it was so she could never feel guilty when she told her kids they couldn't move in with her. I was about 6 yrs old, but I never forgot it because actually it struck me as out of character for her. Grandma was huge on family, and she was respected and adored by her kids. Years later the topic came up again. She explained that it kept her from being tempted to meddled in their adult lives, and they weren't tempted to ask because they knew she had no where to put them. So they figured out things by themselves. I thought it a rather profound way of doing/looking at things.
I've been doing alot of thinking of how she parented her adult kids. She's my only true example. (my Mom personally stinks at it) I don't recall her ever offering them advice. They always had to pull it out of her. She never once objected to any behavior or passed judgement......at least not to them, she kept it to herself. BUT I remember my aunt being brutally beaten by her 1st husband (I was 3) and her going to her trailor in the middle of no man's land in the middle of the night because my aunt needed her. I recall her asking my aunt once to leave the jerk. Aunt was far too scared. (with good reason) Grandma said no more and began tending her battered and broken body. Aunts husband showed up drunk and ready for another round.......I recall grandma getting between the two and the look of murder in her eyes. The jerk backed down and went and passed out. We left the next morning and aunt wasn't with us. I recall several other times when Aunt had psychotic breaks, pretty severe ones. Again grandma would go to her whether she wanted her there or not. She'd talk her through it. When I was about 12 I finally asked Grandma why she always took me along. She said because I was Aunts namesake I always had a special place in her heart......and Aunt would try harder to sort out her twisted paranoid thinking if I was there in order not to scare me. I remember her doing the same sorts of things for my Mom when she'd have her psychotic breaks too. And of course I spent most of my childhood with grandma due to the fact that Mom's breaks usually centered around me for some reason.
I know it was a different time, but I don't ever remember her pushing them to seek treatment or to change their behavior. All I ever recall her doing was talking them down and out of the current psychotic break. She never offered her home, she never offered money (she didn't have it anyway). She never once worried what other people thought of their often bizarre behaviors.
But now as an adult with my own difficult children........I do know how grandma must have worried about them.
She was a wise woman in many many ways. She never interfered with them living their lives and making their mistakes and such. But she always seemed to know when they needed her most and would always day or night be there for them, even when they thought they didn't want her there. The rest of the time she made the most of each day. I know because I was with her. If she worried she never let it stop her from doing what she wanted to do and what made her happy.
Not sure where I'm going with this.........cuz it's just been running around in my brain, all the memories, like a broken record. I think I'm trying to "soak" up some of her wisdom.
(((hugs)))
Soooo easy to get pulled into that vortex of worry, the kind that doesn't let your brain let go of it no matter what the heck you're doing. I know, been doing that with Nichole and I haven't done it in the past several years. Actually I'm doing it worse than I ever did before and I'm not exactly sure why that is. Maybe because she pulled such a huge dilly this time around......maybe it's because I've already been under a ton of stress.......maybe it's because she's not a kid and I can't just haul her fanny where it needs to be for treatment.......or maybe it's because she has a fairly serious mental disorder.........or maybe/probably the combination of all of those things.
I do think it's harder (tons harder) when they've had a period of time when they have done so much better than ever before. I've come to admit to myself that I'd almost fooled myself that Nichole really wasn't a difficult child but her first major downward spiral was purely situational. How's that for hiding your head in the sand?? Never thought I could be that good at denial.....but evidently I can be just as good about it as everyone else. sigh I guess no parent wants to believe their kid has serious mental disorders, even when it stares them in the face. It's scary as hades thinking of them facing that life, especially one day when we're not around. (for me anyway)
Been doing alot of thinking about my grandma over these past weeks. Seriously, I don't know how she did it. She had at one time 4 major difficult children plus a husband like your ex....perhaps worse than your ex but they were in the same league. Two difficult children seemed to outgrow it and did wonderfully turning out to be pillars of the community, excellent husbands and fathers. My aunt and my Mom............that was a whole other story. Of course my uncles didn't truly have a mental illness. More like young and wild and a touch dumb until they matured.
I was very little once when I asked Grandma why her apartment didn't have a bedroom. It was the upstairs of a duplex and the bed pulled out of the wall in the livingroom. She told me it was so she could never feel guilty when she told her kids they couldn't move in with her. I was about 6 yrs old, but I never forgot it because actually it struck me as out of character for her. Grandma was huge on family, and she was respected and adored by her kids. Years later the topic came up again. She explained that it kept her from being tempted to meddled in their adult lives, and they weren't tempted to ask because they knew she had no where to put them. So they figured out things by themselves. I thought it a rather profound way of doing/looking at things.
I've been doing alot of thinking of how she parented her adult kids. She's my only true example. (my Mom personally stinks at it) I don't recall her ever offering them advice. They always had to pull it out of her. She never once objected to any behavior or passed judgement......at least not to them, she kept it to herself. BUT I remember my aunt being brutally beaten by her 1st husband (I was 3) and her going to her trailor in the middle of no man's land in the middle of the night because my aunt needed her. I recall her asking my aunt once to leave the jerk. Aunt was far too scared. (with good reason) Grandma said no more and began tending her battered and broken body. Aunts husband showed up drunk and ready for another round.......I recall grandma getting between the two and the look of murder in her eyes. The jerk backed down and went and passed out. We left the next morning and aunt wasn't with us. I recall several other times when Aunt had psychotic breaks, pretty severe ones. Again grandma would go to her whether she wanted her there or not. She'd talk her through it. When I was about 12 I finally asked Grandma why she always took me along. She said because I was Aunts namesake I always had a special place in her heart......and Aunt would try harder to sort out her twisted paranoid thinking if I was there in order not to scare me. I remember her doing the same sorts of things for my Mom when she'd have her psychotic breaks too. And of course I spent most of my childhood with grandma due to the fact that Mom's breaks usually centered around me for some reason.
I know it was a different time, but I don't ever remember her pushing them to seek treatment or to change their behavior. All I ever recall her doing was talking them down and out of the current psychotic break. She never offered her home, she never offered money (she didn't have it anyway). She never once worried what other people thought of their often bizarre behaviors.
But now as an adult with my own difficult children........I do know how grandma must have worried about them.
She was a wise woman in many many ways. She never interfered with them living their lives and making their mistakes and such. But she always seemed to know when they needed her most and would always day or night be there for them, even when they thought they didn't want her there. The rest of the time she made the most of each day. I know because I was with her. If she worried she never let it stop her from doing what she wanted to do and what made her happy.
Not sure where I'm going with this.........cuz it's just been running around in my brain, all the memories, like a broken record. I think I'm trying to "soak" up some of her wisdom.
(((hugs)))
Mom2oddson
Active Member
Wow Star! Now I see the reason for the circle of support! You really need it right now.
Not taking the calls will get easier. It's like the first time you don't wait for them when they refuse to get in the car. Or the first time you lock the doors and go to bed not knowing where they are. You feel like the meanest, nastiest person on the earth.... but the sun still comes up in the morning and life goes on. It's never easy, but you get to a point where you don't take the guilt as quick as before. And if you do, you can let it go knowing that this is a situation that THEY created.
In 7 months my difficult child-A will be 20. He's on a path to throw away his entire life and there is nothing I can do about it. You have done everything you could to get Dude the help/ learn the skills he'd need to survive this life. Now it is time to let him use the skills and survive or to chose not to use them and learn the hard consequences of life. It rips the very soul out of a Mom's heart and grinds it in the ground when the child we love can't be helped. I've had to turn both of my difficult children over to a higher power. I know that God loves them, even more than I do, and that He's more skilled than me. It's the only thing that keeps my head from exploding due to the worry, anger, frustration, tears...etc...
If you chose to ship Dudes stuff to him. Check out the Flat Rate Priority boxes at the post office. It's one price no matter what the weight is. I use it anytime I have something very heavy to mail.
Not taking the calls will get easier. It's like the first time you don't wait for them when they refuse to get in the car. Or the first time you lock the doors and go to bed not knowing where they are. You feel like the meanest, nastiest person on the earth.... but the sun still comes up in the morning and life goes on. It's never easy, but you get to a point where you don't take the guilt as quick as before. And if you do, you can let it go knowing that this is a situation that THEY created.
In 7 months my difficult child-A will be 20. He's on a path to throw away his entire life and there is nothing I can do about it. You have done everything you could to get Dude the help/ learn the skills he'd need to survive this life. Now it is time to let him use the skills and survive or to chose not to use them and learn the hard consequences of life. It rips the very soul out of a Mom's heart and grinds it in the ground when the child we love can't be helped. I've had to turn both of my difficult children over to a higher power. I know that God loves them, even more than I do, and that He's more skilled than me. It's the only thing that keeps my head from exploding due to the worry, anger, frustration, tears...etc...
If you chose to ship Dudes stuff to him. Check out the Flat Rate Priority boxes at the post office. It's one price no matter what the weight is. I use it anytime I have something very heavy to mail.
