Yikes! Honor roll teens "can't read/write cursive"..huh?

[Wiped Out]

I teach 4th and 5th grade and haven't taught cursive in quite a few years. There simply aren't enough minutes in the day. It isn't something that we "have" to teach and with everything we do have to teach it isn't likely to happen. Still I do have some little books I may have the kiddos try this year (most of it will have to be done at home).

As for memorizing math facts, we still have the kiddos do that. In order for them to be proficient at the end of 4th grade they have to know all of the addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division facts. They have to read problems and give us the answer within 3 seconds.

It's always interesting to me that our district keeps giving us more to teach without taking anything out (except cursive and that might be coming back). Apparently they don't understand the fact that in order to teach things well something has got to go. (Sorry-I'm off my soapbox now.)

 

[BusynMember]

I'm one of those people who promised that when I got old (ok older...lol) I wasn't going to wring my hands over the good old days that are always better to our grandparents. And I don't think I do think that way.

Playing devil's advocate, but also (I think) realist, our kids are not going to fill out job applications. Even for McDonalds you have to fill out online forms and I feel learning computer skills is far more relevant than handwriting. Spelling won't be as important. It just won't. Spelcheck takes care of that. Textbooks don't even exist where my grandson goes to school. That's sort of an exaggeration but there is a lot of online reading. He is given a tablet, I think my son said. And, here we go again, calculators are high level now and everyone has one. Heck, I'm so bad at math I always used one and now they are more popular than ever. What is necessary to get a job changes with the times and that is what is taught.

I don't think it's a shame. I think it's reality. Our grandkids have to grow up in the electronic age and it's different. But that is where they will have to compete.

Remember how we hated when grandpa used to bash our lifestyle? Remember his "I walked twenty miles to school in bear feet...." In spite of that, we drove or took a school bus. Was it better? I don't think you can judge better or worse. It was different.

 

[SuZir]

They tend to change our cursive every 10 years, and current one doesn't much differ from print, so I don't feel that nostalgic over kids learning to write different letters than I did. And they still teach kids to read also older print styles, which I do consider important.

However I do feel that spelling and especially grammar are still important. Spell checks don't do it all and in fact can change the message you are trying to convey. Grammar, even more so. And let's not forget that you are totally screwed when learning new languages if you don't know your basic grammar. Every language has different logic and different grammar and if you haven't learned the concepts in your first language, it is almost impossible to understand how it works in foreign languages. Let's face it, I'm lost enough with if I should use imperfect or preterite in Spanish now, I can't even fathom trying to figure that out if I wouldn't have clear understanding, what imperfect is. And I remember when I was changing schools, and language of instruction, just before I had my second year of English in fourth grade. In my first school I was instructed with language that doesn't have future-tense at all so it wasn't taught in grammar either when going through tenses. In that school they would had taught it in fourth grade English. However, the language of instruction at that second school does have future tense and it was taught in grammar classes on third grade and at fourth grade we were expected to understand the concept. Made it quite hard for me to grasp the idea of when I was supposed to use future tense in English, even though I knew how to use it when speaking the instruction language of that second school.

I'm also not a fan of using calculators early on in education. Basic math skills are something you need to know without using calculators anyway. And when you get a little bit more advanced, you actually have to learn the concepts to actually understand the math. And you can teach those concepts without calculators to very advanced level if you want to. Sometimes calculators just give you a way around of learning and that is a bad thing. You can't learn higher level math, if you don't understand those very basic level concepts that are taught before University level. And even if you don't want to learn higher level math ever, just relaying to your calculator easily gives people troubles. Often when kids are allowed to use calculators too early and too much, they will miss understanding how you actually do the math and if the answer you are getting is even possible. Then kids may give answers that 10 or 100 or 1000 times wrong and not even wonder how on earth size of this bread they were trying to calculate could be about the same as average apartment building. That may not sound that bad, but do you want that person to be a nurse who tries to calculate how much morphine to put to your IV after a surgery? Or do you want to be that person, who doesn't really understand how to do your percentage math and how doubling the interest rate makes things different when taking a mortgage?

 

[BusynMember]

In all honesty, right or wrong, foreign language isn't really stressed in our schools. The majority of Americans are fluent only in English. My daughter is in high school and has the option of learning Spanish or German, but she didn't want to do either and doesn't need to. None of my children were introduced to any other language at all until Middle School and then it was only Spanish and none of them can speak it.

Maybe with the new world economy, we should get on it, but it seems that every other country teaches English. I mean, your English is GREAT! Since most countries use English as a default language...doesn't give us a big incentive to become more bilingual. My Son-Who-Left is pretty fluent in Mandarin and has been to China for his business, but it was his own personal choice to learn this language and he is in the minority...

Maybe this will change in the future here.

I agree with the calculators. My kids were actually not able to use them until they got into higher grade levels. If I had not been made to learn at least basic math, I think, since I hate math with a passion, that I would not be able to do even groceries on my own.

 

[Wiped Out]

Oh yeah, meant to add that we don't let the kiddos use calculators (except for some students with IEPs that really need them).

 

[DDD]

I'm still debating, lol. Should a Grandma say "you guys need to learn cursive NOT because it is necessary today BUT because it truly does happen that electronics and the Internet CAN be lost (for example, during hurricanes) and you want to strive to know multiple ways of communication"?

I know this is an extreme example BUT if you were held captive and only had the chance to sent out a note...could you?? I often think of the kidnapped children. Yes, it may be weird. on the other hand the well educated little girl from Utah? who was the victim of an odd handyman? She was beyond Bright. Yes, she was victimized but could she have passed a note? The less educated girls who were held for a long time in Ohio...if they could have written a note would their captivity been shorter?

I think communication is paramount. Math is different. English as a cursive method or block lettering as a communication method..they can be the difference between surviving or not! I want my offspring to be multi lingual but absolutely able to communicate in block or cursive writing in English. DDD

 

[muttmeister]

If electronics and the internet go down, kid can still print. They do still teach that and it has much more correlation to learning to read than does cursive. Certainly, kids need a way to communicate other than keyboarding but I think cursive writing may be relegated to history majors and people in specialties where they have a real use for it.

 

[BusynMember]

Most kids can read. They can also write well enough to get a letter to somebody in an emergency assuming there is no way to communicate electronically. My daughter was not really taught cursive (I am talking about Jumper. My oldest daughter who is 29 did learn it). If Jumper had to write a note to save her life, she could and it would be legible.
There is just less concentration on handwriting than on keyboarding and in my opinion that makes sense.

 

[Kathy813]

DDD, all I can say is good luck getting two teenage girls to be willing to sit down and learn and practice a skill that they don't think is relevant or necessary to their lives.

Did I ever mention that I teach high school math? LOL

~Kathy

 

[DDD]

LOL...I know Kathy! Maybe I am being an "old person" about this but times tables and cursive make sense to me. Then again I grew up having to formally respond to wedding invitations etc. using the Emily Post standard wording...in cursive...using an ink pen (never a tacky ballpoint pen). Geez, Louise do they even manufacture ink pens?

No doubt you and I get along well. You can have the math. I was an English major. DDD

 

[BusynMember]

Heh, DDD. Do you remember cartridge pens?

 

[InsaneCdn]

Geez, Louise do they even manufacture ink pens?

Yes, they do!... people use them for art, and for calligraphy.
And yes, people still do calligraphy.

 

[TerryJ2]

Yes, one consequence that educators "forgot" is that kids who don't know how to write in cursive can't read cursive. And people around the world still use it. In English. Gah!

 

[DDD]

Sure do, MWM. Those were a bit step forward from using an ink jar!
We were allowed to use cartridge pens...phew/whew! DDD

Insane I had a friend who was very artistic (and cute and spoke four languages..yikes!) and as a teen earned $$'s by addressing formal invitations using her calligraphy skills. Meanwhile it was an effort for me to "color within the lines", LOL!

 

[Umberlee168]

I would be relieved if I knew my kids were going to learn something more practical than cursive. I remember learning cursive in third grade and it takes a crazy amount of time. It isn't that difficult to learn how to read it--no different than learning type-set from print. But I'd much rather my kids learn basic programming or HTML or anything tech-related. There will always be a need for handwritten communication but special, flowery handwritten communication? Nah.

 

[goomer]

Cursive is NOT taught in our district at all, ever. In fact, penmanship is only taught K-1st grade. It's frightening

 

[DDD]

Hey, goomer. I don't think I've "met you" before. Welcome aboard!
Seriously??? K-lst???? Yikes my Phd Early Education sister swears that little tykes are expected to do well with coordinated skills long before they are capable of such fine motor coordination. She thinks that so many of the K-1 kids fail to find success at five or six that it results in mislabeling of potential and leads to low self esteem and high dropout rates later.

Obviously I am no expert but having had eight kids combined I do have some experience. Heck, I remember how proud I was when I was able to "show off" my cursive at home. I felt so grownup. DDD

 

[TerryJ2]

Welcome, Goomer. Which board are you on?

 

[helpangel]

My youngest is the last group of kids going thru the Michigan school system that there isn't a foreign language requirement for graduation. I think this is wrong kids need to master their native language not be force fed one they are never going to use.

Now I have mixed feelings about teaching handwriting, I think its something they should give kids a workbook or practice sheet once a year - so they have some idea of how to do it but not be put thru the hand cramps of all that handwriting practice. Every time I see any of my kids sign something I want to cry, seeing how they struggle with writing their name... yes debit cards have replaced checks but credit still needs a signature so do contracts.

And don't get me started with the non digital clocks UGH work one 8 hour shift with someone who doesn't know how to read one and you will understand why this makes me crazy... The only clock I would take camping was non digital for that reason, even had Roman numerals on it. Roman numerals gotta laugh my friend use to quote the DSM IV and I use to say "its not iv that's the Roman number 4" Now the DSM "V" is done wonder if she will figure it out?

I'm old school and the kids think it is neat how I can guess the time within 10 minutes by where the shadow of a familiar to me tree is. My brain is full of so much useless information I don't need or want it's a wonder I can think at all. (smacking my ear trying to get rid of our phone # when I was 3yo)

Nancy

 

[Californiablonde]

I only write in cursive. My printing totally sucks. It looks like a five year old's writing, but my handwriting is beautiful. I am always getting compliments on it. My students, however, have a very difficult time reading and filing away my notes. They are constantly coming up to me and asking what a certain name is. I had no idea they stopped teaching cursive years ago. Now it makes sense why the students and even my own kids can't read any of my notes!

To apply for a job in the school district, it is still required to fill out a hand written application, and hand write a two paragraph essay. You are graded on spelling, punctuation, and grammar. There is also a math test, and calculators are not allowed. Only the top three scores get in for an interview. The rest of the applications are discarded. Thank goodness school was always really easy for me, and I aced the tests to get in to my current job position. There are still some careers that actually do require basic adacemic skills to get you hired. My job is one of them.