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<blockquote data-quote="Star*" data-source="post: 434933" data-attributes="member: 4964"><p>Burnt out - </p><p> </p><p>I'm not a shrink and I don't play one on the board. I'm just a person that has been through a lot in life. More than most, less than others, but I want you to really listen to things that I see between the lines in your posts. I see them? because I've either lived them and recognize them, and have done something about them and I'm now in a better place emotionally, physically, and mentally - and can offer some basic advice. NOT specific advice - because that is something that is going to take a lot of time and work on your part, and I don't have any answers for you on how that works out. What I do have is suggestions, and I know the outcome - I'm living proof it does get better, the guilt? Goes away, the kids? Can come to some kind of peace, and you can finally stop beating yourself into the ground because you feel you "SHOULD" have done this or that. I tell people often that should is a word most people need to remove from their vocabulary because at the time you did what you did? You did it because you felt it was the BEST THING to do. Few people look at a situation and say "Well I'm going to do this or that because I should have done the right thing but I think I will do the wrong thing, and worry about the consequences for my behaviors in 2o years." I'm speaking about leaving your son with his Father when he was 12. You did what you felt was the BEST thing. NOT the worst thing. So stop thinking "I SHOULD have.......blah blah blah." It's over, it's done with - you can't change the past, and your son at the time was 12, not 2, not 4 - he had choices, and he made them - free and clear. No one held a gun to his head and said - YOU HAVE to stay or you HAVE to go. HE made his choice, and now ten years later he wants to blame you because things didn't work out for himself? HOW in the world is that right? HE made the choice - and when things don't work out? He comes back and blames you? NO MAAM. </p><p> </p><p>See this is the part where I would suggest SERIOUSLY and STRONGLY that you find a counselor and therapist. YOU my dear - STINK -------at drawing boundaries. That's why it hurts so badly right now to say NO about everything with him. And when you talked about your dad and his suicide? Wow - loads and loads of unresolved issues there, that have proabably carried over into your adult life. That must have been awful for you. You ARE a good person, but I see so much self-doubt in your words, that it makes me wonder if you've ever had ANYONE stand up for JUST YOU your entire life. A friend, a sister, anyone - even now your husband is willing to let this boy come into your home and destroy things - and for what? WHY? I don't get it. He is an ADULT that is ruining his own life and trying to take you down with him in a fury of guilt, and just for kicks adds in a religious factor? OH brother - don't even go there with me. I would then suggest that if he wants to move back home he goes to pastoral counseling for three months and lives at the YMCA or a half way house for men....NOT my home. Sounds like he's confused about WWJD - cause I know everyone is forgiven - but where is HIS forgiveness? He sure wants it - but isn't willing to GIVE it is he? So don't go chapter and verse on my hiney pastor boy. UGH. I never get how you can run like a heathen and then throw up the good book, but only pick out what you think pertains to your Mother when it suits your needs as far as getting what you want. I got a few to throw back - like Honor thy Mother for starters. </p><p> </p><p>They (our kids) certainly know how to reach down to the bottom of the basement and pull up the ugliest of memories and hurtful things don't they? Well here's the good part about being part of this family. NOW YOU -----can say to him - "You know what Jr. - I'm not listening to you. AND .......hang up the phone. Shut the door, or turn off the texts......and DO NOT allow him to bully you any more. WHAT on earth do you think gives him the right? NOTHING - that's what - NOTHING - you owe him NOTHING - and don't you allow him to tell you otherwise. The day that you start believing what we are telling you? THE BETTER -----he is going to get. And each time - each and EVERY time - you stand up FOR YOURSELF? The better he will do FOR himself. It may not seem like it at first because he's gotten so used to using you for a crutch - and it will take him back a few notches - but eventually when he doesn't have you to smack around? He'll either get himself together OR he'll find someone else in the real world to pick on - and THEN he's going to find out REALLY quick that people do NOT take his BS - because people outside of YOU? WILL NOT TOLERATE his ka ka. The rest of the world won't treat him like a Special Education kid -----they are going to treat him like a regular kid - which is what he is begging for. So ------let him go. He's 22, a man - fathered 2 children and NEEDS to be working, living on his own, and finding his own way - </p><p> </p><p>Ask yourself this - IF you died tomorrow. HOW would he get on? Seriously. HOW would he take care of himself. And if the rest of the world is what he had to face? HOW well are you preparing him for it if you CONSTANTLY feel sorry for him and take him in all the time and fix everything for him????? SURE he's mad, sure he's angry - WHY wouldn't he be. MOM has always fixed every little thing - It's a cycle - he gets frustrated - you smooth it over. He gets angry - you try to fix it. He BLOWS UP and is TOTALLY FRUSTRATED - You rush in and try to calm him and fix it some more - and just do it for him. He walks off with no responsibility - and you end up doing double the work - and it's nothing to him - because he has no work involved in it. So now? Guess what? He's going to have to work some - and GOOD FOR HIM. Good on you too - This isn't a bad thing. It's a good thing. Seems like a bad thing - because he's yelling - but it's a good thing because he's finally doing at 22 what he SHOULD have been doing like all the OTHER kids - at 15, 16 - but you were probably stepping in and fixing it for him. (my guess) Because iether it was easier, or you're an enabler or a fixer. Just didn't want to see him uspet. Felt sorry for him or whatever the reason - maybe it even had something to do with your own childhood. </p><p> </p><p>Anyway -------If you are NOT already in counseling or therapy? Get into it. Please, do yourself a great big favor and find someone to talk to. There is so much about you that is beyond good, and confused......that woudln't take too much to sort out. And you have two other kids that are really going to need you there with ALL your wits about you, and in ten years - YOU are going to need to be happy - I spent 15 years in therapy and while I can tell you I didn't like it at first - I am glad for every session now - because I'm a better person, Mother, friend - and I absolutely can draw boundaries - say NO to people and mean it - You should see me with door to door sales people - I'm a terror. grrrrrrrrr. And I'm still nice - haven't lost my edge - I'm not all doped up. I take anti depressants too.....but I have peace and I have the love of the girls here on the board that at a moments notice if I were to say "OH I feel so sorry for Dude I'm going to let him move back home." OMW - the letters and ugly comments I would get ----like - HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND??? I would answer of course, (a long time ago I lost my mind - that's why I collect marbles) lol </p><p> </p><p>Anyway - just wanted to tell you - about the therapy - don't let the pastor get to you - there are plenty here who can quote enough verses, or Ghandi or mote it so shalom- or what have you - to fill his head with tons of thoughs on religious natures, that really just don't even belong in an argument of this nature - Honestly if you're going to bring Jesus into an argument? It doesn't fit. I picture him as a peaceful man, unless you're selling stuff in a temple - then he's not so peaceful - but you weren't even in a temple or selliing stuff - So what's up with that. And as far as the guilt trip from 10 years ago? Good grief - Tell him it's the year 2011 - if he had a grievance from 2000 - he should have spoke then - you know when HE made his choice. Just like EVERY day he makes HIS CHOICES - and I'd add that if he CHOOSES to talk to his MOTHER disrespectfully ONE MORE TIME? YOU are going to CHOOSE to SHUT HIM OUT, HANG UP THE PHONE, or WHATEVER IT IS to get him out of your face - and if he calls back - you just say "JR. If you want to TALK to me? Fine - if you yell at me or guilt trip me? I WILL hang up." And if he doesn't respect the rules of the call? DO NOT warn him - JUST HANG THE FRIG up. Then if he calls back? Do not answer it - take the phone off the hook - and wait till another day when he can talk civil. If that day does NOT come - then you just don't talk to him. If he shows up at the house? And is beligerant? You call the police. He gets ONE warning - to leave - you can say "You WILL NOT be disrespectful of me or my home, you will NOT scare the children - I will talk to you but the VERY FIRST time you yell - or upset me? You have to go and if you do NOT leave? I will call the police." THEN DO IT. NO threats - DO IT - follow through. Oh and as far as "I have done this to him?" =======Get yerself a new line of guilt will ya honey? - You aint done nothing to him. WE (each one of us) makes our OWN choices every day- and all that goes back to SHOULD - which you really need to remove from your vocabulary.....cause you did do your best. And in doing so - you didn't do anything BUT your best for him. SEE? </p><p> </p><p>And in the mean time - get that counselor - If you don't have money? Call your local mental health dept. they take any and everyone from free to sliding scale. FYI - </p><p> </p><p>Hugs </p><p>Star</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Star*, post: 434933, member: 4964"] Burnt out - I'm not a shrink and I don't play one on the board. I'm just a person that has been through a lot in life. More than most, less than others, but I want you to really listen to things that I see between the lines in your posts. I see them? because I've either lived them and recognize them, and have done something about them and I'm now in a better place emotionally, physically, and mentally - and can offer some basic advice. NOT specific advice - because that is something that is going to take a lot of time and work on your part, and I don't have any answers for you on how that works out. What I do have is suggestions, and I know the outcome - I'm living proof it does get better, the guilt? Goes away, the kids? Can come to some kind of peace, and you can finally stop beating yourself into the ground because you feel you "SHOULD" have done this or that. I tell people often that should is a word most people need to remove from their vocabulary because at the time you did what you did? You did it because you felt it was the BEST THING to do. Few people look at a situation and say "Well I'm going to do this or that because I should have done the right thing but I think I will do the wrong thing, and worry about the consequences for my behaviors in 2o years." I'm speaking about leaving your son with his Father when he was 12. You did what you felt was the BEST thing. NOT the worst thing. So stop thinking "I SHOULD have.......blah blah blah." It's over, it's done with - you can't change the past, and your son at the time was 12, not 2, not 4 - he had choices, and he made them - free and clear. No one held a gun to his head and said - YOU HAVE to stay or you HAVE to go. HE made his choice, and now ten years later he wants to blame you because things didn't work out for himself? HOW in the world is that right? HE made the choice - and when things don't work out? He comes back and blames you? NO MAAM. See this is the part where I would suggest SERIOUSLY and STRONGLY that you find a counselor and therapist. YOU my dear - STINK -------at drawing boundaries. That's why it hurts so badly right now to say NO about everything with him. And when you talked about your dad and his suicide? Wow - loads and loads of unresolved issues there, that have proabably carried over into your adult life. That must have been awful for you. You ARE a good person, but I see so much self-doubt in your words, that it makes me wonder if you've ever had ANYONE stand up for JUST YOU your entire life. A friend, a sister, anyone - even now your husband is willing to let this boy come into your home and destroy things - and for what? WHY? I don't get it. He is an ADULT that is ruining his own life and trying to take you down with him in a fury of guilt, and just for kicks adds in a religious factor? OH brother - don't even go there with me. I would then suggest that if he wants to move back home he goes to pastoral counseling for three months and lives at the YMCA or a half way house for men....NOT my home. Sounds like he's confused about WWJD - cause I know everyone is forgiven - but where is HIS forgiveness? He sure wants it - but isn't willing to GIVE it is he? So don't go chapter and verse on my hiney pastor boy. UGH. I never get how you can run like a heathen and then throw up the good book, but only pick out what you think pertains to your Mother when it suits your needs as far as getting what you want. I got a few to throw back - like Honor thy Mother for starters. They (our kids) certainly know how to reach down to the bottom of the basement and pull up the ugliest of memories and hurtful things don't they? Well here's the good part about being part of this family. NOW YOU -----can say to him - "You know what Jr. - I'm not listening to you. AND .......hang up the phone. Shut the door, or turn off the texts......and DO NOT allow him to bully you any more. WHAT on earth do you think gives him the right? NOTHING - that's what - NOTHING - you owe him NOTHING - and don't you allow him to tell you otherwise. The day that you start believing what we are telling you? THE BETTER -----he is going to get. And each time - each and EVERY time - you stand up FOR YOURSELF? The better he will do FOR himself. It may not seem like it at first because he's gotten so used to using you for a crutch - and it will take him back a few notches - but eventually when he doesn't have you to smack around? He'll either get himself together OR he'll find someone else in the real world to pick on - and THEN he's going to find out REALLY quick that people do NOT take his BS - because people outside of YOU? WILL NOT TOLERATE his ka ka. The rest of the world won't treat him like a Special Education kid -----they are going to treat him like a regular kid - which is what he is begging for. So ------let him go. He's 22, a man - fathered 2 children and NEEDS to be working, living on his own, and finding his own way - Ask yourself this - IF you died tomorrow. HOW would he get on? Seriously. HOW would he take care of himself. And if the rest of the world is what he had to face? HOW well are you preparing him for it if you CONSTANTLY feel sorry for him and take him in all the time and fix everything for him????? SURE he's mad, sure he's angry - WHY wouldn't he be. MOM has always fixed every little thing - It's a cycle - he gets frustrated - you smooth it over. He gets angry - you try to fix it. He BLOWS UP and is TOTALLY FRUSTRATED - You rush in and try to calm him and fix it some more - and just do it for him. He walks off with no responsibility - and you end up doing double the work - and it's nothing to him - because he has no work involved in it. So now? Guess what? He's going to have to work some - and GOOD FOR HIM. Good on you too - This isn't a bad thing. It's a good thing. Seems like a bad thing - because he's yelling - but it's a good thing because he's finally doing at 22 what he SHOULD have been doing like all the OTHER kids - at 15, 16 - but you were probably stepping in and fixing it for him. (my guess) Because iether it was easier, or you're an enabler or a fixer. Just didn't want to see him uspet. Felt sorry for him or whatever the reason - maybe it even had something to do with your own childhood. Anyway -------If you are NOT already in counseling or therapy? Get into it. Please, do yourself a great big favor and find someone to talk to. There is so much about you that is beyond good, and confused......that woudln't take too much to sort out. And you have two other kids that are really going to need you there with ALL your wits about you, and in ten years - YOU are going to need to be happy - I spent 15 years in therapy and while I can tell you I didn't like it at first - I am glad for every session now - because I'm a better person, Mother, friend - and I absolutely can draw boundaries - say NO to people and mean it - You should see me with door to door sales people - I'm a terror. grrrrrrrrr. And I'm still nice - haven't lost my edge - I'm not all doped up. I take anti depressants too.....but I have peace and I have the love of the girls here on the board that at a moments notice if I were to say "OH I feel so sorry for Dude I'm going to let him move back home." OMW - the letters and ugly comments I would get ----like - HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND??? I would answer of course, (a long time ago I lost my mind - that's why I collect marbles) lol Anyway - just wanted to tell you - about the therapy - don't let the pastor get to you - there are plenty here who can quote enough verses, or Ghandi or mote it so shalom- or what have you - to fill his head with tons of thoughs on religious natures, that really just don't even belong in an argument of this nature - Honestly if you're going to bring Jesus into an argument? It doesn't fit. I picture him as a peaceful man, unless you're selling stuff in a temple - then he's not so peaceful - but you weren't even in a temple or selliing stuff - So what's up with that. And as far as the guilt trip from 10 years ago? Good grief - Tell him it's the year 2011 - if he had a grievance from 2000 - he should have spoke then - you know when HE made his choice. Just like EVERY day he makes HIS CHOICES - and I'd add that if he CHOOSES to talk to his MOTHER disrespectfully ONE MORE TIME? YOU are going to CHOOSE to SHUT HIM OUT, HANG UP THE PHONE, or WHATEVER IT IS to get him out of your face - and if he calls back - you just say "JR. If you want to TALK to me? Fine - if you yell at me or guilt trip me? I WILL hang up." And if he doesn't respect the rules of the call? DO NOT warn him - JUST HANG THE FRIG up. Then if he calls back? Do not answer it - take the phone off the hook - and wait till another day when he can talk civil. If that day does NOT come - then you just don't talk to him. If he shows up at the house? And is beligerant? You call the police. He gets ONE warning - to leave - you can say "You WILL NOT be disrespectful of me or my home, you will NOT scare the children - I will talk to you but the VERY FIRST time you yell - or upset me? You have to go and if you do NOT leave? I will call the police." THEN DO IT. NO threats - DO IT - follow through. Oh and as far as "I have done this to him?" =======Get yerself a new line of guilt will ya honey? - You aint done nothing to him. WE (each one of us) makes our OWN choices every day- and all that goes back to SHOULD - which you really need to remove from your vocabulary.....cause you did do your best. And in doing so - you didn't do anything BUT your best for him. SEE? And in the mean time - get that counselor - If you don't have money? Call your local mental health dept. they take any and everyone from free to sliding scale. FYI - Hugs Star [/QUOTE]
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