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3 year old with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) Autism
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 167033" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Also, have a read of the threads on "The Explosive Child" at the top of this forum to get a few ideas on how we implement it for younger kids.</p><p></p><p>Speaking from experience with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids and discipline - don't try. He will win. All his determination is focussed on getting what he KNOWS he must have, while only some of your attention is directed against this. The rest of your attention is spread over 'what are other people thinking?', 'what are we having for dinner?', 'how can I get the shopping/washing/doctor's appointment dealt with under these circumstances?'</p><p></p><p>been there done that. In spades.</p><p></p><p>Every time you fight a battle and lose, you lose a little bit more authority (assuming you ever had any with him - autistic kids do not see social standing as a rule, you often have to handle them very differently).</p><p>So it is better to avoid the battles.</p><p></p><p>But you can't let him run wild, I hear you say.</p><p></p><p>True. But where possible, you redirect rather than block. Blocking is what HE does, and does so well. When you do it, he simply blocks back. And he's good at it.</p><p></p><p>A kid with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) can't be disciplined in the usual way because he doesn't think in the usual way. You may also be wanting things from him that he just can't give right now.</p><p></p><p>For example - we could have punished difficult child 3 every time he failed to come when called. A lot of people would have. But what was in fact happening, was at that time difficult child 3 just didn't understand that he was being called. If we HAD punished him, he wouldn't have learnt about names any faster, but it would have confused him and made him angry.</p><p></p><p>What you need to do is work out what it is you want from him. Don't worry about next week, next month or next year, just worry about NOW. He WILL improve, but he will improve faster if you can keep him calm and keep his anxiety/frustration under control.</p><p></p><p>For example, if you are out somewhere in public and worried he will get lost, then there are several things you can do:</p><p>1) stick a name tag on his back (sticky schoolbook labels - write his name, diagnosis and your mobile phone number). Put it on his chest if you can be sure he won't peel it off.</p><p></p><p>2) Make a wrist tag for him - same details - that fastens with velcro and is semi-permanent. We had one for holidays, that difficult child 3 would only take off when he had a bath, and then it would be put on again immediately he was dry.</p><p></p><p>3) strap him in somewhere, or put him on a leash. There are some fun accessories as well as some very practical ones. This one isn't good if he's a Houdini, as easy child 2/difficult child 2 was.</p><p></p><p>4) If someone else can get better compliance from him, get THEM to handle him.</p><p></p><p>5) Don't go out. Sometimes if the expectation/requirement is more than he can comply with, then you shouldn't expose him to it. Or expose him for only very small amounts so you can have a success. If every occasion is a failure, you will all come to expect failure and anticipation makes it very unpleasant.</p><p></p><p>A person with autism learns a different way and thinks a different way. They are interested in different things, they value different things. They learn by the example you set, they do NOT learn by observation of what happens to others. it is all very personal, it all comes down to what they personally experience. If they do not get the connections between cause and effect, then they won't learn what you expect.</p><p></p><p>This doesn't mean they are stupid - far from it. It's just that what you're trying to get through to them, is at that moment not on their agenda, anywhere. It's like talking to a government official from a totally different department to the topic you're trying to discuss.</p><p></p><p>These kids model their behaviour on the way you treat them. So if you scream at them, scold them loudly, tell them they are infuriating, then at some future stage you will get exactly the same behaviour back. And then, when he screams at you, scolds you loudly and tells you that you are infuriating, you will see it as insolence. But it is not. In his mind, this is how people are supposed to behave.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 1 has a really good friend from school who has Asperger's Syndrome. He was a big lad, tall and looked very strong. When he was 16 a lot of the teachers were afraid of him, with his size and expressionless face. A teacher told him (as they would tell any kid, "Pick up that piece of paper."</p><p>And just stood there expressionless and said, "Say please."</p><p>He was not being insolent. He was simply following the social rules he had learned.</p><p></p><p>In the case of your son, the best thing you can do is avoid problems before they happen. This isn't always easy. If a discipline method is not working, then dump it. Punishment is generally a poor motivator anyway.</p><p></p><p>What you have on your side - Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids generally are law-abiding (once they understand the laws) and want to please you. But that comes AFTER they have done what THEY want. So you need to make them want what you want. This is where natural consequences come in.</p><p>Natural consequences - I use this example often. He wants to play in the snow, you want him to put a coat on first. If you make him wait while you fetch his coat you will probably have a meltdown. But if you don't make too big a fuss and instead back away from the argument before it gets to meltdown stage, then he will be more willing to change to your opinion when it becomes obvious that you have a point. THis is what we mean by Basket B - you back away from a meltdown and drop the subject, even though this is something you want him to comply with. Because if he rushes out into the snow without a coat, natural consequences will come in - he will feel cold. And if you are standing there holding his coat out for him, he will be grateful, and will be more likely next time to connect the dots when you say, "Please put your coat on so you won't be cold."</p><p></p><p>If, on the other hand, you make a huge fuss about him putting his coat on, he MUST NOT go outside without it, and he throws a screaming rage, chances are he wouldn't admit in a million years if he felt cold.</p><p></p><p>Giving way, and having natural consequences do the work for you, gets you the result you want without you being the ogre. It also gets the result you want without anyone getting too steamed ad in a way that boosts your authority, not weakens it.</p><p></p><p>Too often we as parents get hung up on "Because I said so." We put too high a value on being the boss and insisting on our authority. But especially with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids, they don't recognise authority. They don't recognise status. They are true egalitarians. Everyone is equal. VERY equal. I said on another thread, that difficult child 3 talks to his 9 year old best friend in exactly the same manner as he talks to his high school principal. And exactly the same way he talks to me. Or his doctor. Or a stranger he meets at the mall and to whom he tells our family history.</p><p></p><p>This can be a good thing. Surely we all believe in equality? The interesting thing is, we don't recognise it or understand it until we are living with it to this extent.</p><p></p><p>You need to get inside your son's head, work out what he is thinking about , what he is wanting and why, because then you will have a better idea how to get what YOU want.</p><p></p><p>It's also possible that he needs time and support to switch from what he is doing to what you want him to do. If he's playing with his toy cars and you want him to have his bath, you need to give him time to change from cars, to bath. He needs to feel confident that his cars will be ready to be left. He might be trying to get them all precisely lined up, and if you insist on bathtime compliance before the cars are properly lined up, he will fret and be upset.</p><p></p><p>Think about it - he asks you to get him a drink, and you're busy unloading the washing machine. If you expect instant compliance in the bathtime routine, he will understandably expect the same response from you when he asks for a drink. When you fail to immediately stop unloading the washing machine in order to get him a drink, he will see this as very unfair.</p><p>If, instead, you are teaching him that sometimes we need to wait and that also sometimes, we will give him time to be ready, he will better understand WHY.</p><p></p><p>Can you see the logic in this? Because Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids are very, very logical - in their own way. There is always a reason, there is never anything random. But it is all according to THEIR standards, because especially when young they do not have theory of mind and they are very egocentric.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 3 is now 14 years old. He is almost there now with theory of mind and is far less egocentric. A lot of people who get to know him at first find it hard to accept that he is autistic. He has skipped a number of discipline stages in some ways, and is still stuck at fairly basic levels in others. He is exceptionally bright and his self-esteem is improving. He has a remarkably good work ethic for a kid his age and is morally more upright than Billy Graham. I could leave him alone in a room with a bowl of sweets and tell him he must not eat any, and be extremely confident that he left them entirely alone.</p><p></p><p>And that, too, is part of his autism. He is a good kid. As your son almost certainly is - or will be, as he learns to model his behaviour on the way you treat him.</p><p></p><p>Welcome to the site, Steph. Get your husband to come here too, mine does and it helps us a great deal.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 167033, member: 1991"] Also, have a read of the threads on "The Explosive Child" at the top of this forum to get a few ideas on how we implement it for younger kids. Speaking from experience with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids and discipline - don't try. He will win. All his determination is focussed on getting what he KNOWS he must have, while only some of your attention is directed against this. The rest of your attention is spread over 'what are other people thinking?', 'what are we having for dinner?', 'how can I get the shopping/washing/doctor's appointment dealt with under these circumstances?' been there done that. In spades. Every time you fight a battle and lose, you lose a little bit more authority (assuming you ever had any with him - autistic kids do not see social standing as a rule, you often have to handle them very differently). So it is better to avoid the battles. But you can't let him run wild, I hear you say. True. But where possible, you redirect rather than block. Blocking is what HE does, and does so well. When you do it, he simply blocks back. And he's good at it. A kid with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) can't be disciplined in the usual way because he doesn't think in the usual way. You may also be wanting things from him that he just can't give right now. For example - we could have punished difficult child 3 every time he failed to come when called. A lot of people would have. But what was in fact happening, was at that time difficult child 3 just didn't understand that he was being called. If we HAD punished him, he wouldn't have learnt about names any faster, but it would have confused him and made him angry. What you need to do is work out what it is you want from him. Don't worry about next week, next month or next year, just worry about NOW. He WILL improve, but he will improve faster if you can keep him calm and keep his anxiety/frustration under control. For example, if you are out somewhere in public and worried he will get lost, then there are several things you can do: 1) stick a name tag on his back (sticky schoolbook labels - write his name, diagnosis and your mobile phone number). Put it on his chest if you can be sure he won't peel it off. 2) Make a wrist tag for him - same details - that fastens with velcro and is semi-permanent. We had one for holidays, that difficult child 3 would only take off when he had a bath, and then it would be put on again immediately he was dry. 3) strap him in somewhere, or put him on a leash. There are some fun accessories as well as some very practical ones. This one isn't good if he's a Houdini, as easy child 2/difficult child 2 was. 4) If someone else can get better compliance from him, get THEM to handle him. 5) Don't go out. Sometimes if the expectation/requirement is more than he can comply with, then you shouldn't expose him to it. Or expose him for only very small amounts so you can have a success. If every occasion is a failure, you will all come to expect failure and anticipation makes it very unpleasant. A person with autism learns a different way and thinks a different way. They are interested in different things, they value different things. They learn by the example you set, they do NOT learn by observation of what happens to others. it is all very personal, it all comes down to what they personally experience. If they do not get the connections between cause and effect, then they won't learn what you expect. This doesn't mean they are stupid - far from it. It's just that what you're trying to get through to them, is at that moment not on their agenda, anywhere. It's like talking to a government official from a totally different department to the topic you're trying to discuss. These kids model their behaviour on the way you treat them. So if you scream at them, scold them loudly, tell them they are infuriating, then at some future stage you will get exactly the same behaviour back. And then, when he screams at you, scolds you loudly and tells you that you are infuriating, you will see it as insolence. But it is not. In his mind, this is how people are supposed to behave. difficult child 1 has a really good friend from school who has Asperger's Syndrome. He was a big lad, tall and looked very strong. When he was 16 a lot of the teachers were afraid of him, with his size and expressionless face. A teacher told him (as they would tell any kid, "Pick up that piece of paper." And just stood there expressionless and said, "Say please." He was not being insolent. He was simply following the social rules he had learned. In the case of your son, the best thing you can do is avoid problems before they happen. This isn't always easy. If a discipline method is not working, then dump it. Punishment is generally a poor motivator anyway. What you have on your side - Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids generally are law-abiding (once they understand the laws) and want to please you. But that comes AFTER they have done what THEY want. So you need to make them want what you want. This is where natural consequences come in. Natural consequences - I use this example often. He wants to play in the snow, you want him to put a coat on first. If you make him wait while you fetch his coat you will probably have a meltdown. But if you don't make too big a fuss and instead back away from the argument before it gets to meltdown stage, then he will be more willing to change to your opinion when it becomes obvious that you have a point. THis is what we mean by Basket B - you back away from a meltdown and drop the subject, even though this is something you want him to comply with. Because if he rushes out into the snow without a coat, natural consequences will come in - he will feel cold. And if you are standing there holding his coat out for him, he will be grateful, and will be more likely next time to connect the dots when you say, "Please put your coat on so you won't be cold." If, on the other hand, you make a huge fuss about him putting his coat on, he MUST NOT go outside without it, and he throws a screaming rage, chances are he wouldn't admit in a million years if he felt cold. Giving way, and having natural consequences do the work for you, gets you the result you want without you being the ogre. It also gets the result you want without anyone getting too steamed ad in a way that boosts your authority, not weakens it. Too often we as parents get hung up on "Because I said so." We put too high a value on being the boss and insisting on our authority. But especially with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids, they don't recognise authority. They don't recognise status. They are true egalitarians. Everyone is equal. VERY equal. I said on another thread, that difficult child 3 talks to his 9 year old best friend in exactly the same manner as he talks to his high school principal. And exactly the same way he talks to me. Or his doctor. Or a stranger he meets at the mall and to whom he tells our family history. This can be a good thing. Surely we all believe in equality? The interesting thing is, we don't recognise it or understand it until we are living with it to this extent. You need to get inside your son's head, work out what he is thinking about , what he is wanting and why, because then you will have a better idea how to get what YOU want. It's also possible that he needs time and support to switch from what he is doing to what you want him to do. If he's playing with his toy cars and you want him to have his bath, you need to give him time to change from cars, to bath. He needs to feel confident that his cars will be ready to be left. He might be trying to get them all precisely lined up, and if you insist on bathtime compliance before the cars are properly lined up, he will fret and be upset. Think about it - he asks you to get him a drink, and you're busy unloading the washing machine. If you expect instant compliance in the bathtime routine, he will understandably expect the same response from you when he asks for a drink. When you fail to immediately stop unloading the washing machine in order to get him a drink, he will see this as very unfair. If, instead, you are teaching him that sometimes we need to wait and that also sometimes, we will give him time to be ready, he will better understand WHY. Can you see the logic in this? Because Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids are very, very logical - in their own way. There is always a reason, there is never anything random. But it is all according to THEIR standards, because especially when young they do not have theory of mind and they are very egocentric. difficult child 3 is now 14 years old. He is almost there now with theory of mind and is far less egocentric. A lot of people who get to know him at first find it hard to accept that he is autistic. He has skipped a number of discipline stages in some ways, and is still stuck at fairly basic levels in others. He is exceptionally bright and his self-esteem is improving. He has a remarkably good work ethic for a kid his age and is morally more upright than Billy Graham. I could leave him alone in a room with a bowl of sweets and tell him he must not eat any, and be extremely confident that he left them entirely alone. And that, too, is part of his autism. He is a good kid. As your son almost certainly is - or will be, as he learns to model his behaviour on the way you treat him. Welcome to the site, Steph. Get your husband to come here too, mine does and it helps us a great deal. Marg [/QUOTE]
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