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<blockquote data-quote="SuZir" data-source="post: 639416" data-attributes="member: 14557"><p>What I'm about to write is not to comment to if or when to try to re-establish a contact, but to how (if you in some point decide that is something you want to do.) And it is of course just one opinion and experience about the subject.</p><p></p><p>First thing to remember is, that decision to go no-contact is painful. It is that for both parties, but especially to the one who is a subject of no-contact. When other party wants to re-establish the contact, it brings all that hurt back and one has to remember, that it is very possible that the other party is not willing to have contact any more, or not right away or not in the terms that the re-establishing party would want. And that is just something you have to accept.</p><p></p><p>If your son is open to reconnect if/when you are seeking it, I would try to change those patterns of communication you used to have that were hurtful to you. While it sounds like he wasn't exactly lying when he was talking about jobs, being clean, friends and so on, but it was more wishful thinking or trying to say the right things to please you, it also seems those are not realistic goals in this point of his life in any way. If you decide to re-establish contact in some point, I would advice you to try to accept him like he is at this point. Accept that you can't change him (and no, unfortunately no-contact from your part is likely to change him either) and while there is always hope, right now he is this really messed up street person, who is not willing to look for meaningful help and who is not willing to admit the nature of his issues (and I can kind of understand it, substance abuse is something you recover from and there are all kinds of uplifting stories about it that I'm sure he has heard. Serious mental illness like schizoaffective is not something you recover, you manage it better or worse but that is it. And being on autism spectrum is also not something that will change. Accepting your limitations like that is hard, especially if you're bit borderline and have grown up thinking that you are almost like your peers and maybe, if you just do this or that can be like them. It seems to be bit easier to those whose specialness is so evident from early age, that people around them have been preparing them to 'special living' also in adulthood long before they even hit their teens.) When situation is like this, it is not very useful to try to change someone or even expect that change. It is more about harm reduction than trying to influence to him to change him.</p><p></p><p>He has been telling you things he daydreams or what he thinks you want to hear or what have been taught him to be a 'right way to talk for person in this situation.' None of it is candid. It could be helpful to both of you and your relationship with each other to change your convo to more real and more meaningful things. That of course isn't pleasant but reality of people like your son just isn't. I was in that situation with my dad once when I was around twenties. His substance abuse issues were totally out of control and he had fallen from the wagon, very bad patch for him. With me he tried to talk about the right things: How he was going to AA (when he was, it was only to get himself audience to feel himself smart, he was in too bad shape to keep up with his usual 'narcissist supply', but from AA he was able to find people to listen him and some of them were easily impressed by his pseudo philosophical deepness he could muster even though he was totally out of it), how he was planning his next exhibition, how his lifestyle was in fact an art project and so on. Instead of contradicting or asking about those or even entertaining the talk about those, I used to just tell him how nice that was and then steered the convo to more real topics like: where did you sleep last night? Was it cold? What have you eaten today? Did you hear this new shelter, soup kitchen, place to get clothes free? Have you tried them already? And so on. I would try to stay on that level. Very matter of fact and everyday topics (for him), that in best case scenario could give him some ideas of more reasonable goals than for example getting a job would be.</p><p></p><p>You also need to decide beforehand how much are you willing to help. And with help I don't mean supporting the change to better, but more about harm reduction approach. While there may be a change in future in some point, or may not, is there things you are comfortable to do to help him stay alive and without serious, permanent injuries? Things you would maybe be willing to do even for total stranger? Maybe buy him some food, or warm sleeping bag or shoes, take him to goodwill to shopping tour, help him with the tent that keeps the worst elements out or what ever it may be. If you believe that when he finds his rock bottom he will make changes, doing things like that of course doesn't make much sense, because they may be considered just things that will postpone that aha moment. But if the hope of that aha moment and turn for better is something you have had to give up with your son, and if you are ready to take a harm reduction mentality (and it is a big change. It is a huge loss to let go of the believe to complete recovery and accept the bad situation as likely long term or permanent and not something likely to change dramatically better in short order), your mindset will change. It doesn't make it any less sad, you will still mourn what will not be, but when you accept what is instead, you slowly learn to deal with what is instead of what you would hope it would be. And from that mindset it makes all the sense in the world to try to ease the suffering of someone you love even though it will not make change them, not make things better in long term or not bring you a happy ending. But it does ease the suffering a bit for now.</p><p></p><p>By the way, when it comes to your other kids; while they are of course entitled to have their own relationship or lack of it with their brother, I would likely remind them rather strongly, that their brother is no bogyman, not a danger for them and while you don't require them to associate with him, he is still loved by you and it is disrespectful to talk about him like that in front of you. And that little sympathy for those less fortunate than themselves wouldn't do damage to their character.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SuZir, post: 639416, member: 14557"] What I'm about to write is not to comment to if or when to try to re-establish a contact, but to how (if you in some point decide that is something you want to do.) And it is of course just one opinion and experience about the subject. First thing to remember is, that decision to go no-contact is painful. It is that for both parties, but especially to the one who is a subject of no-contact. When other party wants to re-establish the contact, it brings all that hurt back and one has to remember, that it is very possible that the other party is not willing to have contact any more, or not right away or not in the terms that the re-establishing party would want. And that is just something you have to accept. If your son is open to reconnect if/when you are seeking it, I would try to change those patterns of communication you used to have that were hurtful to you. While it sounds like he wasn't exactly lying when he was talking about jobs, being clean, friends and so on, but it was more wishful thinking or trying to say the right things to please you, it also seems those are not realistic goals in this point of his life in any way. If you decide to re-establish contact in some point, I would advice you to try to accept him like he is at this point. Accept that you can't change him (and no, unfortunately no-contact from your part is likely to change him either) and while there is always hope, right now he is this really messed up street person, who is not willing to look for meaningful help and who is not willing to admit the nature of his issues (and I can kind of understand it, substance abuse is something you recover from and there are all kinds of uplifting stories about it that I'm sure he has heard. Serious mental illness like schizoaffective is not something you recover, you manage it better or worse but that is it. And being on autism spectrum is also not something that will change. Accepting your limitations like that is hard, especially if you're bit borderline and have grown up thinking that you are almost like your peers and maybe, if you just do this or that can be like them. It seems to be bit easier to those whose specialness is so evident from early age, that people around them have been preparing them to 'special living' also in adulthood long before they even hit their teens.) When situation is like this, it is not very useful to try to change someone or even expect that change. It is more about harm reduction than trying to influence to him to change him. He has been telling you things he daydreams or what he thinks you want to hear or what have been taught him to be a 'right way to talk for person in this situation.' None of it is candid. It could be helpful to both of you and your relationship with each other to change your convo to more real and more meaningful things. That of course isn't pleasant but reality of people like your son just isn't. I was in that situation with my dad once when I was around twenties. His substance abuse issues were totally out of control and he had fallen from the wagon, very bad patch for him. With me he tried to talk about the right things: How he was going to AA (when he was, it was only to get himself audience to feel himself smart, he was in too bad shape to keep up with his usual 'narcissist supply', but from AA he was able to find people to listen him and some of them were easily impressed by his pseudo philosophical deepness he could muster even though he was totally out of it), how he was planning his next exhibition, how his lifestyle was in fact an art project and so on. Instead of contradicting or asking about those or even entertaining the talk about those, I used to just tell him how nice that was and then steered the convo to more real topics like: where did you sleep last night? Was it cold? What have you eaten today? Did you hear this new shelter, soup kitchen, place to get clothes free? Have you tried them already? And so on. I would try to stay on that level. Very matter of fact and everyday topics (for him), that in best case scenario could give him some ideas of more reasonable goals than for example getting a job would be. You also need to decide beforehand how much are you willing to help. And with help I don't mean supporting the change to better, but more about harm reduction approach. While there may be a change in future in some point, or may not, is there things you are comfortable to do to help him stay alive and without serious, permanent injuries? Things you would maybe be willing to do even for total stranger? Maybe buy him some food, or warm sleeping bag or shoes, take him to goodwill to shopping tour, help him with the tent that keeps the worst elements out or what ever it may be. If you believe that when he finds his rock bottom he will make changes, doing things like that of course doesn't make much sense, because they may be considered just things that will postpone that aha moment. But if the hope of that aha moment and turn for better is something you have had to give up with your son, and if you are ready to take a harm reduction mentality (and it is a big change. It is a huge loss to let go of the believe to complete recovery and accept the bad situation as likely long term or permanent and not something likely to change dramatically better in short order), your mindset will change. It doesn't make it any less sad, you will still mourn what will not be, but when you accept what is instead, you slowly learn to deal with what is instead of what you would hope it would be. And from that mindset it makes all the sense in the world to try to ease the suffering of someone you love even though it will not make change them, not make things better in long term or not bring you a happy ending. But it does ease the suffering a bit for now. By the way, when it comes to your other kids; while they are of course entitled to have their own relationship or lack of it with their brother, I would likely remind them rather strongly, that their brother is no bogyman, not a danger for them and while you don't require them to associate with him, he is still loved by you and it is disrespectful to talk about him like that in front of you. And that little sympathy for those less fortunate than themselves wouldn't do damage to their character. [/QUOTE]
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