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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 678835" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>Funny Cedar.</p><p>They seem to have segmented off guilt, shame and anxiety, and need a way to manage it. They do so by extreme control and by projecting these noxious emotions to other people, among them, us. </p><p></p><p>We become the receptacles of their shame, guilt and anxiety, both in the way they define us to themselves and to others, but also functionally--we our their garbage cans, or in some cases chess pieces--they need to feel as if they control the board.</p><p>I believe the explanation is in their personality structure.</p><p></p><p>Remember my sister writing to the attorney of my mother's trust to say: I was constantly in my mother's home with her, caring for her before I moved across country. </p><p></p><p>And the reality was she shunned my mother. Not always but in the last 3 years of her life, perhaps 80 to 90 percent of that time. </p><p></p><p>I think they are broken up in terms of their relationships with themselves, and only secondarily with other people. Their personalities are cracked up into pieces, not integrated, they can see and know the lies, but the responsibility for them, the moral responsible--primarily the guilt, shame, and the anxiety that they will be discovered, they do not feel. Because after all, those noxious feelings they project into us, and surrogates for us they have designated in their lives. (Like the black lady my sister targeted in her work--who later sued her and the place she worked.) They can see the machinations they do, but they see them as a source of pride and control. And most importantly, their power.</p><p></p><p>Because think about two things: First, we were there first. We were always there in their worlds. They always see their own power as something that they seized from us. By discrediting us. Tattling, telling lies, constructing another version of reality, in relation to us. </p><p></p><p>Their identities are constructed in part from what they copied about us, and another part copied about how they defined themselves in relation to us, <em>and did not copy, but disparaged, tried to beat out, or force out or away.</em></p><p>Except these are people who are damaged. The primary audience they play to is themselves.</p><p></p><p>That is why it does not matter what the truth is <em>to them</em>. They are truly emperors with no clothes. The peanut gallery of their lives is themselves.</p><p>See, at some point the investment was in protecting them, because in this way we protected ourselves. We were protected and not cast out.</p><p></p><p>We are truly torn. It requires seeing that our best welfare is now trusting ourselves and our people now are those near is now. This is why this is so devastating with our children. And why we keep trying, even, at our own peril. And we (I) keep feeling happy over and over again when I believe I can save my son (myself) by doing something, intervening to create the reality for him that I want so badly. </p><p></p><p>Our own welfare and view of ourselves and the world is tied up with their welfare. As it was with the sisters. Theirs with ours, not at all.</p><p>Of course you did. But then, at the beginning, you knew you would die. </p><p>Yes. And it all has to do with guilt, shame and anxiety and who bears it.</p><p></p><p>With our kids this is the same battle.</p><p></p><p>COPA</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 678835, member: 18958"] Funny Cedar. They seem to have segmented off guilt, shame and anxiety, and need a way to manage it. They do so by extreme control and by projecting these noxious emotions to other people, among them, us. We become the receptacles of their shame, guilt and anxiety, both in the way they define us to themselves and to others, but also functionally--we our their garbage cans, or in some cases chess pieces--they need to feel as if they control the board. I believe the explanation is in their personality structure. Remember my sister writing to the attorney of my mother's trust to say: I was constantly in my mother's home with her, caring for her before I moved across country. And the reality was she shunned my mother. Not always but in the last 3 years of her life, perhaps 80 to 90 percent of that time. I think they are broken up in terms of their relationships with themselves, and only secondarily with other people. Their personalities are cracked up into pieces, not integrated, they can see and know the lies, but the responsibility for them, the moral responsible--primarily the guilt, shame, and the anxiety that they will be discovered, they do not feel. Because after all, those noxious feelings they project into us, and surrogates for us they have designated in their lives. (Like the black lady my sister targeted in her work--who later sued her and the place she worked.) They can see the machinations they do, but they see them as a source of pride and control. And most importantly, their power. Because think about two things: First, we were there first. We were always there in their worlds. They always see their own power as something that they seized from us. By discrediting us. Tattling, telling lies, constructing another version of reality, in relation to us. Their identities are constructed in part from what they copied about us, and another part copied about how they defined themselves in relation to us, [I]and did not copy, but disparaged, tried to beat out, or force out or away.[/I] Except these are people who are damaged. The primary audience they play to is themselves. That is why it does not matter what the truth is [I]to them[/I]. They are truly emperors with no clothes. The peanut gallery of their lives is themselves. See, at some point the investment was in protecting them, because in this way we protected ourselves. We were protected and not cast out. We are truly torn. It requires seeing that our best welfare is now trusting ourselves and our people now are those near is now. This is why this is so devastating with our children. And why we keep trying, even, at our own peril. And we (I) keep feeling happy over and over again when I believe I can save my son (myself) by doing something, intervening to create the reality for him that I want so badly. Our own welfare and view of ourselves and the world is tied up with their welfare. As it was with the sisters. Theirs with ours, not at all. Of course you did. But then, at the beginning, you knew you would die. Yes. And it all has to do with guilt, shame and anxiety and who bears it. With our kids this is the same battle. COPA [/QUOTE]
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