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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 679270" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>Like us, Copa.</p><p></p><p><em>"Over the years, we bumped into more and more things that frightened her, even as she grew more confident."</em></p><p></p><p>Do you think Copa, that had you and M not come in to Dolly's life, she would have grown vicious as the years passed, and more fearful, instead of more loving?</p><p></p><p>Somehow, this connects with the sisters. Something about that inability in them (maybe this is true) to acknowledge the fearsome things, growing more confident ~ confident enough to address other, more fearsome, things. We cannot grow more legitimately confident unless we acknowledge the things that shame or frighten us ~ the places where we were not able to be brave ~ asking for and receiving confirmation that things are, or are not, as we believed them to be.</p><p></p><p>Just think for a minute how hard it was for me to explore those issues here, with you and Serenity and IC as my witnesses.</p><p></p><p>It was really hard to do that. </p><p></p><p>But the other choice is to justify. To justify why we are as we are, seeking validation, always seeking validation, that the way we are is the right way. Like my sister, eventually giving up and screeching that she walks with the Lord. That He may heal our relationship but that she is done.</p><p></p><p>That is such a lonely choice. </p><p></p><p>To know there is something not right, but to justify it, rather than to address it.</p><p></p><p>Why else require allies. Up to and including, apparently, supernatural ones who know everything. And Who, interestingly enough, spends alot of His time walking around with my sister.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>Why else disparage your choice of companion Copa, but to eradicate M's value <em>in the sister's own eyes.</em> She did not want you strong, Copa. So she lied to herself about whether you were.</p><p></p><p>And she lost.</p><p></p><p>So.</p><p></p><p>That explains the intensity of feeling the sisters seem to display.</p><p></p><p>I feel badly for myself, and for us.</p><p></p><p>The sisters? Need nothing from us. They feel totally vindicated.</p><p></p><p>As they were raised to believe too, Copa.</p><p></p><p>If we are bad, they are perfect. If we should one day become such rebels that they cannot handle us on their own and Mother is not immediately available...there is always a Higher Power.</p><p></p><p>Who probably feels alot like Mother.</p><p></p><p>Just as we feel it is right to self destruct to protect them. Here is a thought. The sisters may have been groomed to be the grandiosity addicted abuser's primary Source of Supply. Think of the triangle that makes, Copa.</p><p></p><p>That is where we learned how to navigate our courses through the challenges of life.</p><p></p><p>And that could explain why, with our children in such trouble, we self destruct. Only, as of course would be the case, that didn't work.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>This ties in too with the choice your sister made to disparage you and everything to do with your life by treating M with the disdain of a Princess. The pattern seems to be that the Sister places herself in the ranks of the dismissive nobility. Happily replete; sated, for the moment. </p><p></p><p>How she must have raged Copa, as her constructs fell.</p><p></p><p>None of which matters to us, really. The sisters will choose as they do. The question for us is why we believe them.</p><p></p><p>What in the world.</p><p></p><p>The answer there is all wrapped up in believing that to be treated this way is love. That is all we know of love, having been raised as we were. (Like in the kd lang version of Halleluiah.) But now we understand that love strengthens and blasts through the dark things. As you posted to us about The Sleeping Beauty Kiss, love is this fiery thing, this power.</p><p></p><p>All Dolly needed really, was someone to trust; someone who believed she was good, and to teach her she could cherish herself and learn to relish curiosity and uncertainty and facing into the Wind.</p><p></p><p>Like us. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Everything.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But who would Dolly have become Copa, if there were no Copa?</p><p></p><p>Would she have become fearful, forgetting the initiating incidents altogether, the fear spreading into viciousness and Dolly, the real Dolly, the Dolly who now exists, forever unrecoverable?</p><p></p><p>Cesar the Dog Whisperer says there are no unrecoverable dogs. </p><p></p><p>So...human mothers. Dolly was well-mothered, Copa. All the puppies, fighting for nourishment and warmth and falling asleep in a huddle, exhausted and happy and with full bellies. I have used that analogy in describing D H family, with his loving, demanding, generous, hot-tempered mother.</p><p></p><p>That isn't how it was, for us. </p><p></p><p>The way we think about ourselves, the way we know which feeling state to respond from when we are facing challenge ~ that is where we need to observe and question ourselves, now. It seems never to have been a matter or courage or bravery or commitment, after all. It has always been a matter of self-sacrifice, for us. It feels right to us to bargain with our health or our happiness; with our integrity, even. It feels right to betray ourselves because that is what is required, to believe in them. So we name ourselves all kinds of bad names, and believe our so strange FOO were lovely things Copa, when really...they were toxic.</p><p></p><p>"Just don't think, Cedar."</p><p></p><p>"Don't you dare."</p><p></p><p>But it isn't about them now, Copa. It is about relearning appropriate feeling states ~ not just to win in the challenging times, but to cherish everything about our good being alive, all the time. Even when we are sick or hurt or things are going so badly for us. We were brought up to lose, Copa. To give, to become brittle and starved, and to break. But once we got away from them? We made our good lives anyway. We need a stronger template than the one we survived growing up, to help our own children, now.</p><p></p><p>Breaking isn't going to help them. Self sacrifice isn't going to help our children. A strong mother, someone who can model and teach strength and strength of character. That is what will help our children now, Copa.</p><p></p><p>So, we are doing it.</p><p></p><p>I think we are doing well.</p><p></p><p>Of course.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 679270, member: 17461"] Like us, Copa. [I]"Over the years, we bumped into more and more things that frightened her, even as she grew more confident."[/I] Do you think Copa, that had you and M not come in to Dolly's life, she would have grown vicious as the years passed, and more fearful, instead of more loving? Somehow, this connects with the sisters. Something about that inability in them (maybe this is true) to acknowledge the fearsome things, growing more confident ~ confident enough to address other, more fearsome, things. We cannot grow more legitimately confident unless we acknowledge the things that shame or frighten us ~ the places where we were not able to be brave ~ asking for and receiving confirmation that things are, or are not, as we believed them to be. Just think for a minute how hard it was for me to explore those issues here, with you and Serenity and IC as my witnesses. It was really hard to do that. But the other choice is to justify. To justify why we are as we are, seeking validation, always seeking validation, that the way we are is the right way. Like my sister, eventually giving up and screeching that she walks with the Lord. That He may heal our relationship but that she is done. That is such a lonely choice. To know there is something not right, but to justify it, rather than to address it. Why else require allies. Up to and including, apparently, supernatural ones who know everything. And Who, interestingly enough, spends alot of His time walking around with my sister. *** Why else disparage your choice of companion Copa, but to eradicate M's value [I]in the sister's own eyes.[/I] She did not want you strong, Copa. So she lied to herself about whether you were. And she lost. So. That explains the intensity of feeling the sisters seem to display. I feel badly for myself, and for us. The sisters? Need nothing from us. They feel totally vindicated. As they were raised to believe too, Copa. If we are bad, they are perfect. If we should one day become such rebels that they cannot handle us on their own and Mother is not immediately available...there is always a Higher Power. Who probably feels alot like Mother. Just as we feel it is right to self destruct to protect them. Here is a thought. The sisters may have been groomed to be the grandiosity addicted abuser's primary Source of Supply. Think of the triangle that makes, Copa. That is where we learned how to navigate our courses through the challenges of life. And that could explain why, with our children in such trouble, we self destruct. Only, as of course would be the case, that didn't work. *** This ties in too with the choice your sister made to disparage you and everything to do with your life by treating M with the disdain of a Princess. The pattern seems to be that the Sister places herself in the ranks of the dismissive nobility. Happily replete; sated, for the moment. How she must have raged Copa, as her constructs fell. None of which matters to us, really. The sisters will choose as they do. The question for us is why we believe them. What in the world. The answer there is all wrapped up in believing that to be treated this way is love. That is all we know of love, having been raised as we were. (Like in the kd lang version of Halleluiah.) But now we understand that love strengthens and blasts through the dark things. As you posted to us about The Sleeping Beauty Kiss, love is this fiery thing, this power. All Dolly needed really, was someone to trust; someone who believed she was good, and to teach her she could cherish herself and learn to relish curiosity and uncertainty and facing into the Wind. Like us. Everything. But who would Dolly have become Copa, if there were no Copa? Would she have become fearful, forgetting the initiating incidents altogether, the fear spreading into viciousness and Dolly, the real Dolly, the Dolly who now exists, forever unrecoverable? Cesar the Dog Whisperer says there are no unrecoverable dogs. So...human mothers. Dolly was well-mothered, Copa. All the puppies, fighting for nourishment and warmth and falling asleep in a huddle, exhausted and happy and with full bellies. I have used that analogy in describing D H family, with his loving, demanding, generous, hot-tempered mother. That isn't how it was, for us. The way we think about ourselves, the way we know which feeling state to respond from when we are facing challenge ~ that is where we need to observe and question ourselves, now. It seems never to have been a matter or courage or bravery or commitment, after all. It has always been a matter of self-sacrifice, for us. It feels right to us to bargain with our health or our happiness; with our integrity, even. It feels right to betray ourselves because that is what is required, to believe in them. So we name ourselves all kinds of bad names, and believe our so strange FOO were lovely things Copa, when really...they were toxic. "Just don't think, Cedar." "Don't you dare." But it isn't about them now, Copa. It is about relearning appropriate feeling states ~ not just to win in the challenging times, but to cherish everything about our good being alive, all the time. Even when we are sick or hurt or things are going so badly for us. We were brought up to lose, Copa. To give, to become brittle and starved, and to break. But once we got away from them? We made our good lives anyway. We need a stronger template than the one we survived growing up, to help our own children, now. Breaking isn't going to help them. Self sacrifice isn't going to help our children. A strong mother, someone who can model and teach strength and strength of character. That is what will help our children now, Copa. So, we are doing it. I think we are doing well. Of course. Cedar [/QUOTE]
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