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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 679423" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>I differ with that. First, Freud and before him Hobbes, believed children to be cauldrons of evil, of toxic emotions, including incestuous desires and murderous fantasies.</p><p></p><p>Second, I think people do realize that kids are a mass of complex emotions, desires and behaviors. But they do not necessarily make a big deal over it.</p><p></p><p>Because believe it or not the ability of a child to behave as overtly mean, to my way of thinking, is a way healthier sign than is the suppression of all aggressiveness by the child.</p><p></p><p>Mean behavior can always be curbed. By adults and eventually by the child herself. But if a child has been broken to the point where she suppresses all aggressive behavior and turns it inward towards herself, or twists it or hides it, to be expressed covertly, this is way harder to deal with and harder to extinguish. </p><p></p><p>If one is able to accept their own complexity and ambivalence, they are better able to respond to children and other adults and even their own children, with more equanimity. It is what is feared and hidden, from the self, which hurts us. Not the slings and arrows that come from outside of us. Because what we hide from ourselves, makes us vulnerable, not the attacks by others. </p><p></p><p>New Leaf. I was in no way offended. I just have a different point of view.</p><p></p><p>This is a public forum. There are people who will come after us and will read our words. I feel responsible to make clear my own. That does not mean I do so because I am hurt or in any way upset. I write from the desire to represent what I feel is useful, from a position of integrity and a desire for and valuing of knowledge and the belief in growth and change.</p><p></p><p>This is what I believe:</p><p></p><p>Our self-deceptions make us vulnerable. Or what we fear to see.</p><p></p><p>My biggest vulnerability with my own son is what I do not want to see or to forgive in myself. Because this is where I get hooked.</p><p></p><p>I think I am not the lone ranger. If an adult has trouble owning up to their own meanness and actual cruelties perpetrated, or even to look at the possibility that they can be mean and have been, they may tend to overreact to behaviors of children and adults and misinterpret it. This goes for any other quality in oneself about which one feels conflicted.</p><p></p><p>That is what I think.</p><p></p><p>Now, I do not agree with either Freud or Hobbes. I believe that to interpret the behaviors of babies and children as malicious or evil, is to project and to inject the value-laden thinking of adults, already misshapen, onto innocents.</p><p></p><p>I think babies are at first neutral. They are neither good or bad. They just want to eat and sleep and feel good and loved. The values come later. They learn them based upon how they are treated and how they interpret the world.</p><p></p><p>My belief is that everybody is served by honesty with themselves and the ability to own who and what they are. To the extent they do so, they will be able to do better within themselves and with others.</p><p></p><p>COPA</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 679423, member: 18958"] I differ with that. First, Freud and before him Hobbes, believed children to be cauldrons of evil, of toxic emotions, including incestuous desires and murderous fantasies. Second, I think people do realize that kids are a mass of complex emotions, desires and behaviors. But they do not necessarily make a big deal over it. Because believe it or not the ability of a child to behave as overtly mean, to my way of thinking, is a way healthier sign than is the suppression of all aggressiveness by the child. Mean behavior can always be curbed. By adults and eventually by the child herself. But if a child has been broken to the point where she suppresses all aggressive behavior and turns it inward towards herself, or twists it or hides it, to be expressed covertly, this is way harder to deal with and harder to extinguish. If one is able to accept their own complexity and ambivalence, they are better able to respond to children and other adults and even their own children, with more equanimity. It is what is feared and hidden, from the self, which hurts us. Not the slings and arrows that come from outside of us. Because what we hide from ourselves, makes us vulnerable, not the attacks by others. New Leaf. I was in no way offended. I just have a different point of view. This is a public forum. There are people who will come after us and will read our words. I feel responsible to make clear my own. That does not mean I do so because I am hurt or in any way upset. I write from the desire to represent what I feel is useful, from a position of integrity and a desire for and valuing of knowledge and the belief in growth and change. This is what I believe: Our self-deceptions make us vulnerable. Or what we fear to see. My biggest vulnerability with my own son is what I do not want to see or to forgive in myself. Because this is where I get hooked. I think I am not the lone ranger. If an adult has trouble owning up to their own meanness and actual cruelties perpetrated, or even to look at the possibility that they can be mean and have been, they may tend to overreact to behaviors of children and adults and misinterpret it. This goes for any other quality in oneself about which one feels conflicted. That is what I think. Now, I do not agree with either Freud or Hobbes. I believe that to interpret the behaviors of babies and children as malicious or evil, is to project and to inject the value-laden thinking of adults, already misshapen, onto innocents. I think babies are at first neutral. They are neither good or bad. They just want to eat and sleep and feel good and loved. The values come later. They learn them based upon how they are treated and how they interpret the world. My belief is that everybody is served by honesty with themselves and the ability to own who and what they are. To the extent they do so, they will be able to do better within themselves and with others. COPA [/QUOTE]
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