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Another development, another update. Oy.
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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 617573" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>Those inauthentic roles....</p><p></p><p>Like so many things in our lives, Recovering, that role of "rescuer" (for lack of a better term) was consciously chosen. Either of us may have chosen, as our abusers did, the persecutor or even, the role of victim, instead. There is a power hit in both those roles, I think. Credit where credit is due, Recovering. We did choose a template, a role, some kind of guiding philosophy. For both of us, who had seen so much that was hurtful, the first precept was not Savior, Save Me, or You're Not Worth Saving but "Do no harm." </p><p></p><p>Triumph for us again, Recovering.</p><p></p><p>I think Drama Triangle is a good tool for getting a little perspective. But Recovering, you are no more a persecutor or a victim than the man in the moon. If these tools have helped us understand the concept of and the harm in enabling, then they have been of some value...but that is their only value.</p><p></p><p>This response has something to do with your recent posting about your daughter. I am not sure how it connects. </p><p></p><p>I agree that the dynamic Rescuer/Victim/Persecutor exists. I do not agree that either of us found vindication in the persecutor role, or that we even took it on. If anything, it was in allowing ourselves to see that we are not responsible for what others do that caused the primary dynamic of our paradigms to change. It is never wrong to try to save someone we love. However we got where we got to, our choices were not to save our children instead of letting them save themselves. Our choice pretty much boiled down to committing to save those we love or throwing them away as we had ourselves been thrown away.</p><p></p><p>The saving factor here for both of us was not in learning how not to rescue, but in learning how not to judge. </p><p></p><p>This is true, I think.</p><p></p><p>If we are not responsible, we do not have to take the hit. We do not have to understand. We do not have either the right or the power to forgive what someone else has chosen. Which means that, at long last, in addition to doing no harm? Now, we can take no ****, too. (I saw that on FB.)</p><p></p><p>:O)</p><p></p><p>As you posted here, once you changed, everything changed. I find this, too. But the change that happened had nothing to do with us deciding not to rescue, persecute or villainize. It had to do with...I don't know. It has something to do with the Rumi poem you posted, Recovering. Something to do with gratitude and self-cherishing.</p><p></p><p>Well, I don't know how to say what I'm trying to say. But it has something to do with the pain behind the posting about your daughter.</p><p></p><p>You are right, Recovering. She is walking her own path. She may follow the same self-destructive path forever. That is such a hard thing for a mother to know.</p><p></p><p>I did not hear compassion for yourself in your post about your daughter, Recovering. That is what I am trying to link here, I think. I hear strength. I hear determination to make healthy choices. I hear an understanding that you do not know how the coming changes will look or feel...but I don't hear compassion for the mother whose only child is walking such a difficult path.</p><p></p><p>We have had to be so strong, Recovering. We have taken hit after hit, believing it was something in <u>us</u> that needed to be addressed. But Recovering, even as little kids who knew nothing much about anything at all, we picked "I will do what I can to make it better. Not just for me, and maybe, not for me at all. Just...I will do what little I can to make it better."</p><p></p><p>I am glad you chose the Rumi. I love it. I find it appropriate.</p><p></p><p>And I agree that is where you are going, next.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 617573, member: 17461"] Those inauthentic roles.... Like so many things in our lives, Recovering, that role of "rescuer" (for lack of a better term) was consciously chosen. Either of us may have chosen, as our abusers did, the persecutor or even, the role of victim, instead. There is a power hit in both those roles, I think. Credit where credit is due, Recovering. We did choose a template, a role, some kind of guiding philosophy. For both of us, who had seen so much that was hurtful, the first precept was not Savior, Save Me, or You're Not Worth Saving but "Do no harm." Triumph for us again, Recovering. I think Drama Triangle is a good tool for getting a little perspective. But Recovering, you are no more a persecutor or a victim than the man in the moon. If these tools have helped us understand the concept of and the harm in enabling, then they have been of some value...but that is their only value. This response has something to do with your recent posting about your daughter. I am not sure how it connects. I agree that the dynamic Rescuer/Victim/Persecutor exists. I do not agree that either of us found vindication in the persecutor role, or that we even took it on. If anything, it was in allowing ourselves to see that we are not responsible for what others do that caused the primary dynamic of our paradigms to change. It is never wrong to try to save someone we love. However we got where we got to, our choices were not to save our children instead of letting them save themselves. Our choice pretty much boiled down to committing to save those we love or throwing them away as we had ourselves been thrown away. The saving factor here for both of us was not in learning how not to rescue, but in learning how not to judge. This is true, I think. If we are not responsible, we do not have to take the hit. We do not have to understand. We do not have either the right or the power to forgive what someone else has chosen. Which means that, at long last, in addition to doing no harm? Now, we can take no ****, too. (I saw that on FB.) :O) As you posted here, once you changed, everything changed. I find this, too. But the change that happened had nothing to do with us deciding not to rescue, persecute or villainize. It had to do with...I don't know. It has something to do with the Rumi poem you posted, Recovering. Something to do with gratitude and self-cherishing. Well, I don't know how to say what I'm trying to say. But it has something to do with the pain behind the posting about your daughter. You are right, Recovering. She is walking her own path. She may follow the same self-destructive path forever. That is such a hard thing for a mother to know. I did not hear compassion for yourself in your post about your daughter, Recovering. That is what I am trying to link here, I think. I hear strength. I hear determination to make healthy choices. I hear an understanding that you do not know how the coming changes will look or feel...but I don't hear compassion for the mother whose only child is walking such a difficult path. We have had to be so strong, Recovering. We have taken hit after hit, believing it was something in [U]us[/U] that needed to be addressed. But Recovering, even as little kids who knew nothing much about anything at all, we picked "I will do what I can to make it better. Not just for me, and maybe, not for me at all. Just...I will do what little I can to make it better." I am glad you chose the Rumi. I love it. I find it appropriate. And I agree that is where you are going, next. Cedar [/QUOTE]
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