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<blockquote data-quote="recoveringenabler" data-source="post: 739880" data-attributes="member: 13542"><p>Yes, it was that initial misery which prompted my reactions of despair, anger, disappointment, judgement, deep sorrow.....all of it.</p><p>The hard reality of that misery took my beliefs about how my daughter SHOULD be to epic heights. It had a lot to do with what my expectations for my only child were.....I watched as those expectations got shot down, one by one. Each time it devastated me. I had to go down that list for quite some time to eventually land in a place where I could even entertain the idea that my daughter was living a life SHE chose. It was very hard for me to get there. I needed a lot of support to break that cycle.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ultimately, that is how I chose to respond as well. As I progressed and my daughter didn't, I kept moving a little more away.....one tiny step at a time.....the tough feelings of anger, grief, despair rolled through me, I felt it all, it wasn't easy, but it definitely was a process of putting one foot in front of the other. Each step taught me something about myself and my own various issues which were preventing me from seeing the truth and being able to "see" my daughter for who she is as opposed to what my expectations of her were. Some of those expectation were hidden deep within me, hard to get in touch with because they had more to do with me, than with her. That 2 year long codependency course I took was enough continual support for me to have trained professionals keep chipping away at my reactions and inviting me to look at them and discover I had many ways to respond, not just the ONE way I always reacted. There is a difference between reacting and responding. Reacting for me had no thought behind it, it's an automatic response based on my own "stuff." I learned how to take a step back and respond to each incident....each incident required a new response.....so it required more thought, not just my immediate reaction. You're very good at taking that step back and then responding.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I never cut off communication with my daughter no matter how out there she got. Over time I learned how to state my boundary with each one of my daughter's manipulations to get me to do something........one boundary at a time.......one boundary at a time.....it took awhile. Leafy, for me it had a lot to do with placing more value on my child's needs than my own. I needed help to see that I had every right to make boundaries around behavior that was hurtful, manipulative, deceitful, etc...no matter who the perpetrator was, it was unacceptable......I learned how to self care in a way I had no idea about before. Coming from my own dysfunctional background did not set me up to have a clear sense of where my daughter ended and I began......we were enmeshed in ways I had no idea about. I was the one who began the unhealthy enmeshment, I was the one who ended it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I understand. I had to take apart my definition of hope. For me, it was tied in pretty tightly with expectations & fear. I had to find the line where I could hold out hope for my daughter but at the same time recognize that my hope means little in the scheme of her life, it was about me. My hope now is that my daughter finds her way in life on her terms, for her to discover what that means to her, because my hope was riddled with how I believed it SHOULD BE for her. Those shoulds kept me tethered to unending disappointment & despair. I had to ask myself, "what am I hoping for?" Usually my answer to that was I wanted her to be like me, or like a "typical" person, I wanted her to be what I wanted her to be, not who she is. It didn't leave a lot of room for her to show up. My hope turned out to be judgement. Not to say that is the usual case at all, that's how it was for me. </p><p></p><p>Just as an aside, the therapist I had when I was in that codependency course was the head of the substance abuse/codependency program. She told us that addiction and parental judgement are tied up in ways that can keep both parties stuck. The substance abuser feels that judgement continuously. It's a cycle that's really hard to break out of. I really heard that and I could see that judgement in myself with my daughter. Of course, I can get a lot of agreement for how right I was with my judgements......my daughter was the "wrong" one. But my position of being "right" in my judgements must have felt pretty crummy to her. How do we accept another when they are making such poor choices and in our opinion, ruining their lives? I had to make distinctions between the behavior and who my daughter is......that had all collapsed for me......I began discerning the difference (with a lot of help.) and communicating that to my daughter in ways that over time, began to take root. I never realized how judgmental and critical I had become towards her. It doesn't have to be words, it's the look on my face, the tone in my voice, the sigh....nuances that I think are quite loud when they come from a parent. It was not a pretty insight, believe me. I could see that my critical reactions to her set her up to continually have to defend herself and dig her heels in. As I learned to drop the judgement, she and I found new ways to relate, the cemented views we both had began to break up. I have to say, that was not my shining hour, but once I saw it, I could change it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I wrote a few of those letters and never sent them too. I don't think you have to justify your position by explaining anything to her at this point. I found over time that a simple no was my best strategy, no explanations, no reasons, nothing but a strong boundary. My explanations were for me, my daughter was not in a position then to hear anything but that I wasn't giving her what she wanted, my words were wasted. I got good at that "no", plain and simple......NO. As you always say Leafy, <em>Love says no. </em> I saw after awhile that I complicated it with my feelings, my own "stuff," my inability to say no, to hold my daughter accountable for her behavior towards me.....again, for me, it was more about me...... and I learned how to respond with no justifications. My position became clear. When it was not clear, was when I felt compelled to find justifications....for myself, so that I could do something that was hard for me to do. That clarity took a bit of time though. My daughter and I had to develop a new way of relating....where I showed up with MY power. As that happened the dynamic between us shifted and she began hearing that "no" differently because that "no" was now a strong statement without any doubt. Once my doubt was gone, she stopped trying to manipulate me. People sense when we are unclear and in doubt and they continue running their trips on us until we get to that point of crystal clarity within. </p><p></p><p>My daughter is ok now Leafy however still lives an unusual lifestyle.....actually in a lot of ways, she continues to live the way she has for many years.....the difference is that I accepted it and she is clear about what I'm willing to do and what I'm not....our relationship made a 360 degree turn.....it didn't alter her choices in life but it completely changed our relationship. I don't think too much anymore about holding out hope for her to change or to live a different life, she is who she is......she may change, she may not, my well being is not tied to her choices. Nor can I save her from her choices. </p><p></p><p>I was on the phone with her recently where she was telling me about a cool thing that happened to her. She is HIGHLY emotional and VERY intense which can be very difficult for those in her sphere......she knows how I react to that intensity.....so at one point when she was literally screaming.....I quietly said, (without judgement) " honey, would you mind speaking a little more calmly?" And before I could say more, she stopped, right in the middle of that level of intense emotion and said, "oh right Mom, I know how that makes you feel." And she took a deep breath and then quietly (for her) continued her story. We had a nice conversation after that....she respected my boundary and we both felt good about it. It was a sweet moment Leafy where I realized that after all these years, we arrived somewhere we both can live with. </p><p></p><p>It feels to me that this new episode with Tornado is a turning point for YOU. In spite of your concerns and your worries, you're making difficult, but positive choices for yourself, your son, your health and well being. I think on the love line we have to move the dial just over the middle point to OUR side.....to fortify ourselves with our self care and self worth and hold the line for ANYONE to treat us in an unkind or disrespectful way, no matter what, no matter who. I believe when we make that shift, the changes we are looking for begin to occur.....perhaps not in the way our old selves would have wanted....but in ways that respect and honor us and our kids and can allow all of us to awaken to our true selves..... I believe when we hold our own counsel, when we accept ourselves, when we reside in our own power and sovereignty and let go of our self judgements..... which then lets us let go of the judgements of others.... we model that for our kids. </p><p></p><p>Again, this is my story, my journey......take what you want and ditch anything that doesn't fit for you. </p><p></p><p>And, Leafy, have a wonderful Sunday.........you have such a tender, loving nature...your words always touch my heart in deep and profound ways. Thank you for being here....your journey has touched us all in beautiful ways I can't even articulate.....you're a real gift to all of us.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="recoveringenabler, post: 739880, member: 13542"] Yes, it was that initial misery which prompted my reactions of despair, anger, disappointment, judgement, deep sorrow.....all of it. The hard reality of that misery took my beliefs about how my daughter SHOULD be to epic heights. It had a lot to do with what my expectations for my only child were.....I watched as those expectations got shot down, one by one. Each time it devastated me. I had to go down that list for quite some time to eventually land in a place where I could even entertain the idea that my daughter was living a life SHE chose. It was very hard for me to get there. I needed a lot of support to break that cycle. Ultimately, that is how I chose to respond as well. As I progressed and my daughter didn't, I kept moving a little more away.....one tiny step at a time.....the tough feelings of anger, grief, despair rolled through me, I felt it all, it wasn't easy, but it definitely was a process of putting one foot in front of the other. Each step taught me something about myself and my own various issues which were preventing me from seeing the truth and being able to "see" my daughter for who she is as opposed to what my expectations of her were. Some of those expectation were hidden deep within me, hard to get in touch with because they had more to do with me, than with her. That 2 year long codependency course I took was enough continual support for me to have trained professionals keep chipping away at my reactions and inviting me to look at them and discover I had many ways to respond, not just the ONE way I always reacted. There is a difference between reacting and responding. Reacting for me had no thought behind it, it's an automatic response based on my own "stuff." I learned how to take a step back and respond to each incident....each incident required a new response.....so it required more thought, not just my immediate reaction. You're very good at taking that step back and then responding. I never cut off communication with my daughter no matter how out there she got. Over time I learned how to state my boundary with each one of my daughter's manipulations to get me to do something........one boundary at a time.......one boundary at a time.....it took awhile. Leafy, for me it had a lot to do with placing more value on my child's needs than my own. I needed help to see that I had every right to make boundaries around behavior that was hurtful, manipulative, deceitful, etc...no matter who the perpetrator was, it was unacceptable......I learned how to self care in a way I had no idea about before. Coming from my own dysfunctional background did not set me up to have a clear sense of where my daughter ended and I began......we were enmeshed in ways I had no idea about. I was the one who began the unhealthy enmeshment, I was the one who ended it. I understand. I had to take apart my definition of hope. For me, it was tied in pretty tightly with expectations & fear. I had to find the line where I could hold out hope for my daughter but at the same time recognize that my hope means little in the scheme of her life, it was about me. My hope now is that my daughter finds her way in life on her terms, for her to discover what that means to her, because my hope was riddled with how I believed it SHOULD BE for her. Those shoulds kept me tethered to unending disappointment & despair. I had to ask myself, "what am I hoping for?" Usually my answer to that was I wanted her to be like me, or like a "typical" person, I wanted her to be what I wanted her to be, not who she is. It didn't leave a lot of room for her to show up. My hope turned out to be judgement. Not to say that is the usual case at all, that's how it was for me. Just as an aside, the therapist I had when I was in that codependency course was the head of the substance abuse/codependency program. She told us that addiction and parental judgement are tied up in ways that can keep both parties stuck. The substance abuser feels that judgement continuously. It's a cycle that's really hard to break out of. I really heard that and I could see that judgement in myself with my daughter. Of course, I can get a lot of agreement for how right I was with my judgements......my daughter was the "wrong" one. But my position of being "right" in my judgements must have felt pretty crummy to her. How do we accept another when they are making such poor choices and in our opinion, ruining their lives? I had to make distinctions between the behavior and who my daughter is......that had all collapsed for me......I began discerning the difference (with a lot of help.) and communicating that to my daughter in ways that over time, began to take root. I never realized how judgmental and critical I had become towards her. It doesn't have to be words, it's the look on my face, the tone in my voice, the sigh....nuances that I think are quite loud when they come from a parent. It was not a pretty insight, believe me. I could see that my critical reactions to her set her up to continually have to defend herself and dig her heels in. As I learned to drop the judgement, she and I found new ways to relate, the cemented views we both had began to break up. I have to say, that was not my shining hour, but once I saw it, I could change it. I wrote a few of those letters and never sent them too. I don't think you have to justify your position by explaining anything to her at this point. I found over time that a simple no was my best strategy, no explanations, no reasons, nothing but a strong boundary. My explanations were for me, my daughter was not in a position then to hear anything but that I wasn't giving her what she wanted, my words were wasted. I got good at that "no", plain and simple......NO. As you always say Leafy, [I]Love says no. [/I] I saw after awhile that I complicated it with my feelings, my own "stuff," my inability to say no, to hold my daughter accountable for her behavior towards me.....again, for me, it was more about me...... and I learned how to respond with no justifications. My position became clear. When it was not clear, was when I felt compelled to find justifications....for myself, so that I could do something that was hard for me to do. That clarity took a bit of time though. My daughter and I had to develop a new way of relating....where I showed up with MY power. As that happened the dynamic between us shifted and she began hearing that "no" differently because that "no" was now a strong statement without any doubt. Once my doubt was gone, she stopped trying to manipulate me. People sense when we are unclear and in doubt and they continue running their trips on us until we get to that point of crystal clarity within. My daughter is ok now Leafy however still lives an unusual lifestyle.....actually in a lot of ways, she continues to live the way she has for many years.....the difference is that I accepted it and she is clear about what I'm willing to do and what I'm not....our relationship made a 360 degree turn.....it didn't alter her choices in life but it completely changed our relationship. I don't think too much anymore about holding out hope for her to change or to live a different life, she is who she is......she may change, she may not, my well being is not tied to her choices. Nor can I save her from her choices. I was on the phone with her recently where she was telling me about a cool thing that happened to her. She is HIGHLY emotional and VERY intense which can be very difficult for those in her sphere......she knows how I react to that intensity.....so at one point when she was literally screaming.....I quietly said, (without judgement) " honey, would you mind speaking a little more calmly?" And before I could say more, she stopped, right in the middle of that level of intense emotion and said, "oh right Mom, I know how that makes you feel." And she took a deep breath and then quietly (for her) continued her story. We had a nice conversation after that....she respected my boundary and we both felt good about it. It was a sweet moment Leafy where I realized that after all these years, we arrived somewhere we both can live with. It feels to me that this new episode with Tornado is a turning point for YOU. In spite of your concerns and your worries, you're making difficult, but positive choices for yourself, your son, your health and well being. I think on the love line we have to move the dial just over the middle point to OUR side.....to fortify ourselves with our self care and self worth and hold the line for ANYONE to treat us in an unkind or disrespectful way, no matter what, no matter who. I believe when we make that shift, the changes we are looking for begin to occur.....perhaps not in the way our old selves would have wanted....but in ways that respect and honor us and our kids and can allow all of us to awaken to our true selves..... I believe when we hold our own counsel, when we accept ourselves, when we reside in our own power and sovereignty and let go of our self judgements..... which then lets us let go of the judgements of others.... we model that for our kids. Again, this is my story, my journey......take what you want and ditch anything that doesn't fit for you. And, Leafy, have a wonderful Sunday.........you have such a tender, loving nature...your words always touch my heart in deep and profound ways. Thank you for being here....your journey has touched us all in beautiful ways I can't even articulate.....you're a real gift to all of us. [/QUOTE]
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