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Family of Origin
Another point of view on Shunning. And shunning vs. no contact
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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 674833" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p><em>"...that teach us how to grow as a human being...."</em></p><p></p><p>This is true, Serenity. I am always certain things are going to end badly, and that I won't exactly know why. It surprises me when people reappear, or when they want to be near one another even if there are disagreements. D H family is like that. They will go out of their ways for one another in situations in which my family of origin would not only turn away, but join together to condemn. I have posted before about y family's response to the vulnerability opened in our marriage when our daughter began acting out.</p><p></p><p>They were spitefully mean about every aspect of our lives.</p><p></p><p>Where another family would have supported, they chose to attack piecemeal.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>When we grow up that way, we think that is how the world works. We don't understand how to respond to disagreement. We think it is the beginning of shunning. It's like me forever wondering why D H stayed with me through everything.</p><p></p><p>I had not realized this about myself. The effect that threat of shunning will have had on how mystified I am when relationships don't end. Or, the certainty I have that they are not going to turn out well.</p><p></p><p>A part of why shunning (or going "no contact") works is because it does not make any sense. We find ourselves abruptly alone. Or, as happened in my case this time, we know we are fighting for a principle, but everyone else not only does not stand with us, but become allied against us. </p><p></p><p>We are abruptly alone. And we understand we are defenseless because that is how it worked in our families of origin. Not only would they not want us but they made sure we would believe no one else would, either.</p><p></p><p>Shunning is a power-over tool.</p><p></p><p>And it is the abusive parent who wields the power, because the sibs are hostage to the threat of shunning, too.</p><p></p><p>Is that why we were threats to the mother?</p><p></p><p>Once we believe shunning is just what happens next, much of the sting of it is gone. In this incarnation of shunning, I felt badly enough to decide to figure it out. I did not dream it would end and begin with the shunning dynamic itself.</p><p></p><p>That is the core thing wrong with our families of origin.</p><p></p><p>That dynamic.</p><p></p><p>The power in the threat of isolation. The example of the shunned sib to keep the others in line. The abuser reigns supreme.</p><p></p><p>Like always.</p><p> </p><p>Huh.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have that feeling, too. That the reward for the shunner is to see the hurt and confusion. If shunning were truly about judging against the person being shunned, there would be no further contact at all. Everyone would heal, and life would go on. Shunning is a form of relationship, then. It isn't about distancing from those we disapprove of. It is playing a game of relationship where the negatives, and not the positives, are what matters.</p><p></p><p>I was thinking again about the first paragraph. About the part about fifteen years, or a lifetime would be more true, of these kinds of warped ways of evaluating ourselves.</p><p></p><p>How that would be a primary question for us, one without an answer, even before we are adults. Those first traumatic incidents must be the root of the shame-response to being shunned.</p><p></p><p>That is alot of power for an abusive parent to wield. Maybe it becomes the abuser's primary power, once we are grown and on our own. That power to divide and ally against.</p><p></p><p>Could that be it?</p><p></p><p>And the sibs just keep doing it, because it is all any of us knows about how relationship works in our families of origin.</p><p></p><p>There is a story about a Mongolian peasant. He is said to represent things we are ashamed of ~ times we've hurt someone else intentionally or taken something that wasn't ours or been mean to our animals or whatever. Each of us has this representation of things we are ashamed of. They say that when we do not know why something bad has happened to us, when we cannot figure out why, we pull that imaginary Mongolian peasant out and believe the bad things we've done that he represents is why the current bad things are happening.</p><p></p><p>That is how we make ourselves sick over shunning. That is how we make it make sense. But the thing is, no one else really knows about the things we are most ashamed of. The shunning is not happening for that <em>but that is where the sting of it comes from.</em> </p><p></p><p>If we can understand how it hurts, then we can heal that part of it.</p><p></p><p>I cannot think how to heal the part that you posted in your first paragraphs. The hurt of it over time, and in every aspect of being.</p><p></p><p>That is so sad, for us.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. Every single day, a hundred times a day, and when we wake up in the night, too, wondering why and feeling so badly about it and what to do about it. And what to do about the anger it creates and that we put away somewhere so we can do the right things. </p><p></p><p>I have been very angry over things I had seen but not seen. Things I knew were wrongnesses, but excused automatically.</p><p></p><p>That's what I mean when I say "shunning in place". It was never just the shunning we could see. It was like a shell game of shunning, everyone trying not to be the one shunned.</p><p></p><p>There is alot of power accruing to the abusive parent, in everything to do with shunning.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>"<em>It is a very deliberate strategy with aims and rules."</em></p><p></p><p>True. A deliberate thing that is done. Not an exasperated, "I've had it." but a deliberately hurtful thing that is savored.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Just like the abusive parent was able to do through shaming and physical abuse when their children were little. That was a softening up technique to establish external locus of control. If we only tried harder, if we lived through the abusive parent's eyes and not our own, we believed we could figure it out. We believed we were not bright enough to live our lives by our own choice or interpret ourselves through our own eyes.</p><p></p><p>That would be a fear-based definition of reality.</p><p></p><p>Maybe, those feelings that, though we will give it our best shot, someone else will be able to come along and, effortlessly, do it better ~ maybe that is where that kind of thinking comes from.</p><p></p><p>Shunning in those earlier forms may be the basis for all of it. That belief system kind of relationship where someone has the power to control others through defining the one to be outcast.</p><p></p><p>That is alot of power.</p><p></p><p>No wonder the abusive parent chooses not to give that up.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes.</p><p></p><p>The entire family has a hatred problem. Hatred, isolation, the preferred response instead of the feeling other families are raised to know in the core of their beings: We've got your back.</p><p></p><p>Can you imagine?</p><p></p><p>We have not had someone who had our backs. We have had divisiveness and outright hatred.</p><p></p><p>We have been very strong, to come through this.</p><p></p><p>I a forever posting about brainwashed or PTSD soldiers. But we were just little kids. We knew nothing else of the world.</p><p></p><p>Now, we can learn that other, kinder reality, and claim it for ourselves.</p><p></p><p>I think it begins with "kinder". Kinder to ourselves. When I think of the incredible brain power here as we research and write and redevelop ourselves here on the site, I am amazed at each of us.</p><p></p><p>We have made a difference for ourselves, and for one another. We are doing this. It will take time.</p><p></p><p>When I think how alone we have been, I am astonished at our bravery and courage. But bravery and courage are lonely places to be, and small recompense for that feeling of security which we might have enjoyed in our lives if just once, we knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that someone who knew us and loved us had our backs.</p><p></p><p>Shunning is a horrific thing. I believe we have lived that rotten reality every day of our lives but you know what? I still don't get the win. What has the shunning family achieved?</p><p></p><p>Their own stupid destruction, as their children spend their energies and lifetimes trying to understand how to survive, how to trust, again.</p><p></p><p>I keep forgetting to believe what I know about my Family of Origin. It's unbelievable stuff, really. Like I always do post, I do not understand what the win is. I know people though whose families are supportive, loving things. It is wonderful to see it.</p><p></p><p>You were very right Serenity, in posting that shunning hurts us every single day, in a thousand ways. We don't even know the half of it: Not only what we did get, not only the unbelievable things that did happen, but all the wonderful things that did not.</p><p></p><p>But here we all are. And now, we know better how to survive it. And that is our business, here. To hold both them and ourselves with compassion but at the same time, to never be fooled or victimized y them, again.</p><p></p><p>I still don't get the win in it for them.</p><p></p><p>I honestly don't.</p><p></p><p>And no matter that we are able to pull the pieces together and go on...we merit families worthy of love.</p><p></p><p>We just don't have them.</p><p></p><p>They are dangerous to us.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 674833, member: 17461"] [I]"...that teach us how to grow as a human being...."[/I] This is true, Serenity. I am always certain things are going to end badly, and that I won't exactly know why. It surprises me when people reappear, or when they want to be near one another even if there are disagreements. D H family is like that. They will go out of their ways for one another in situations in which my family of origin would not only turn away, but join together to condemn. I have posted before about y family's response to the vulnerability opened in our marriage when our daughter began acting out. They were spitefully mean about every aspect of our lives. Where another family would have supported, they chose to attack piecemeal. *** When we grow up that way, we think that is how the world works. We don't understand how to respond to disagreement. We think it is the beginning of shunning. It's like me forever wondering why D H stayed with me through everything. I had not realized this about myself. The effect that threat of shunning will have had on how mystified I am when relationships don't end. Or, the certainty I have that they are not going to turn out well. A part of why shunning (or going "no contact") works is because it does not make any sense. We find ourselves abruptly alone. Or, as happened in my case this time, we know we are fighting for a principle, but everyone else not only does not stand with us, but become allied against us. We are abruptly alone. And we understand we are defenseless because that is how it worked in our families of origin. Not only would they not want us but they made sure we would believe no one else would, either. Shunning is a power-over tool. And it is the abusive parent who wields the power, because the sibs are hostage to the threat of shunning, too. Is that why we were threats to the mother? Once we believe shunning is just what happens next, much of the sting of it is gone. In this incarnation of shunning, I felt badly enough to decide to figure it out. I did not dream it would end and begin with the shunning dynamic itself. That is the core thing wrong with our families of origin. That dynamic. The power in the threat of isolation. The example of the shunned sib to keep the others in line. The abuser reigns supreme. Like always. Huh. I have that feeling, too. That the reward for the shunner is to see the hurt and confusion. If shunning were truly about judging against the person being shunned, there would be no further contact at all. Everyone would heal, and life would go on. Shunning is a form of relationship, then. It isn't about distancing from those we disapprove of. It is playing a game of relationship where the negatives, and not the positives, are what matters. I was thinking again about the first paragraph. About the part about fifteen years, or a lifetime would be more true, of these kinds of warped ways of evaluating ourselves. How that would be a primary question for us, one without an answer, even before we are adults. Those first traumatic incidents must be the root of the shame-response to being shunned. That is alot of power for an abusive parent to wield. Maybe it becomes the abuser's primary power, once we are grown and on our own. That power to divide and ally against. Could that be it? And the sibs just keep doing it, because it is all any of us knows about how relationship works in our families of origin. There is a story about a Mongolian peasant. He is said to represent things we are ashamed of ~ times we've hurt someone else intentionally or taken something that wasn't ours or been mean to our animals or whatever. Each of us has this representation of things we are ashamed of. They say that when we do not know why something bad has happened to us, when we cannot figure out why, we pull that imaginary Mongolian peasant out and believe the bad things we've done that he represents is why the current bad things are happening. That is how we make ourselves sick over shunning. That is how we make it make sense. But the thing is, no one else really knows about the things we are most ashamed of. The shunning is not happening for that [I]but that is where the sting of it comes from.[/I] If we can understand how it hurts, then we can heal that part of it. I cannot think how to heal the part that you posted in your first paragraphs. The hurt of it over time, and in every aspect of being. That is so sad, for us. Yes. Every single day, a hundred times a day, and when we wake up in the night, too, wondering why and feeling so badly about it and what to do about it. And what to do about the anger it creates and that we put away somewhere so we can do the right things. I have been very angry over things I had seen but not seen. Things I knew were wrongnesses, but excused automatically. That's what I mean when I say "shunning in place". It was never just the shunning we could see. It was like a shell game of shunning, everyone trying not to be the one shunned. There is alot of power accruing to the abusive parent, in everything to do with shunning. "[I]It is a very deliberate strategy with aims and rules."[/I] True. A deliberate thing that is done. Not an exasperated, "I've had it." but a deliberately hurtful thing that is savored. Just like the abusive parent was able to do through shaming and physical abuse when their children were little. That was a softening up technique to establish external locus of control. If we only tried harder, if we lived through the abusive parent's eyes and not our own, we believed we could figure it out. We believed we were not bright enough to live our lives by our own choice or interpret ourselves through our own eyes. That would be a fear-based definition of reality. Maybe, those feelings that, though we will give it our best shot, someone else will be able to come along and, effortlessly, do it better ~ maybe that is where that kind of thinking comes from. Shunning in those earlier forms may be the basis for all of it. That belief system kind of relationship where someone has the power to control others through defining the one to be outcast. That is alot of power. No wonder the abusive parent chooses not to give that up. Yes. The entire family has a hatred problem. Hatred, isolation, the preferred response instead of the feeling other families are raised to know in the core of their beings: We've got your back. Can you imagine? We have not had someone who had our backs. We have had divisiveness and outright hatred. We have been very strong, to come through this. I a forever posting about brainwashed or PTSD soldiers. But we were just little kids. We knew nothing else of the world. Now, we can learn that other, kinder reality, and claim it for ourselves. I think it begins with "kinder". Kinder to ourselves. When I think of the incredible brain power here as we research and write and redevelop ourselves here on the site, I am amazed at each of us. We have made a difference for ourselves, and for one another. We are doing this. It will take time. When I think how alone we have been, I am astonished at our bravery and courage. But bravery and courage are lonely places to be, and small recompense for that feeling of security which we might have enjoyed in our lives if just once, we knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that someone who knew us and loved us had our backs. Shunning is a horrific thing. I believe we have lived that rotten reality every day of our lives but you know what? I still don't get the win. What has the shunning family achieved? Their own stupid destruction, as their children spend their energies and lifetimes trying to understand how to survive, how to trust, again. I keep forgetting to believe what I know about my Family of Origin. It's unbelievable stuff, really. Like I always do post, I do not understand what the win is. I know people though whose families are supportive, loving things. It is wonderful to see it. You were very right Serenity, in posting that shunning hurts us every single day, in a thousand ways. We don't even know the half of it: Not only what we did get, not only the unbelievable things that did happen, but all the wonderful things that did not. But here we all are. And now, we know better how to survive it. And that is our business, here. To hold both them and ourselves with compassion but at the same time, to never be fooled or victimized y them, again. I still don't get the win in it for them. I honestly don't. And no matter that we are able to pull the pieces together and go on...we merit families worthy of love. We just don't have them. They are dangerous to us. Cedar [/QUOTE]
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