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Another update on M, & thoughts on Desmond Tutu
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<blockquote data-quote="Mikey" data-source="post: 122162" data-attributes="member: 3579"><p>I have a couple of thoughts as well.</p><p></p><p>re: "Forgiveness". A good friend finally convinced me that forgiveness is something you do for yourself, not for the person who harmed you. In a Christian sense, you <strong><u>for</u></strong>go the desire for retribution, and <strong><u>give</u></strong> over that desire to God (or your own higher power) to judge and deal with that person. You should, then be released from the anger, bile, and other nasty feelings that go along with anger and the need for retribution. So, it's something you do for yourself, to clear your spirit of those things that keep you from a happier, more productive life and relationship with your higher power.</p><p></p><p>On a side note, my friend is also somewhat liberal, and used this idea frequently in conversations with his more conservative friends. When they all nodded and agreed how wise he was to understand that, he would follow it up with "well then, that should take care of the conservative eye-for-an-eye thirst for vengeance, right?" He'd let them get puffed up and angry, then deflate them by saying "yes, the Bible does say an eye-for-an-eye. But did it say you had the right to pluck out the eye, or simply trust that God would judge that person's transgressions against you fairly, and deal with that person in a just manner? Or, do you not trust God enough to do as he says he will do, and feel the need to do what God should - but won't - do, and take retribution yourself?"</p><p></p><p>Wowee, the arguments that kid started, but he makes a good point. Forgiveness is something you do for yourself, and I think he's right that God (or your own higher power) meant it that way.</p><p></p><p>Another good friend also taught me later that American Christians seem to have confused the meaning of the word "forgive", and somehow equated it with "reconcile". In the Bible and many other holy texts, we are encouraged to forgive those who harm us. To him (as with my other friend), that means you put dealing with that person's harmful behavior in God's hands. That's different from reconciling. Forgiving is something you do for yourself, so you don't give that other person free rent in your head. But that doesn't mean you have to become best friends, invite them over for dinner, join a bowling league with them, or even smile at them afterwards.</p><p></p><p>But so many people say "I could never forgive that person for doing <em>{...insert favorite harmful behavior here...}</em>. Why not? Unless you think that forgiving them means more than it does. That was a very liberating epiphany for me, and one I have to continually remind myself of in the ongoing tribulation that is my son, McWeedy.</p><p></p><p>If I've offended anyone here, I apologize in advance. I don't mean to proselytize, but I with all the difficult child's, FEX's, and other difficult people in the lives of our CD board members, I humbly hope that the version of forgiveness I've come to understand can help someone else.</p><p></p><p>Or maybe not, in which case you're welcome to throw rotten tomatoes, cabbage, and other produce at me as you see fit.</p><p></p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/emoticons/soapbox.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":soapbox:" title="soapbox :soapbox:" data-shortname=":soapbox:" /> <img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/emoticons/bigsmile.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":bigsmile:" title="big smile :bigsmile:" data-shortname=":bigsmile:" /> <img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/emoticons/bigsmile.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":bigsmile:" title="big smile :bigsmile:" data-shortname=":bigsmile:" /> <img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/emoticons/bigsmile.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":bigsmile:" title="big smile :bigsmile:" data-shortname=":bigsmile:" /></p><p></p><p>Mikey</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mikey, post: 122162, member: 3579"] I have a couple of thoughts as well. re: "Forgiveness". A good friend finally convinced me that forgiveness is something you do for yourself, not for the person who harmed you. In a Christian sense, you [b][u]for[/u][/b][u][/u]go the desire for retribution, and [b][u]give[/u][/b][u][/u] over that desire to God (or your own higher power) to judge and deal with that person. You should, then be released from the anger, bile, and other nasty feelings that go along with anger and the need for retribution. So, it's something you do for yourself, to clear your spirit of those things that keep you from a happier, more productive life and relationship with your higher power. On a side note, my friend is also somewhat liberal, and used this idea frequently in conversations with his more conservative friends. When they all nodded and agreed how wise he was to understand that, he would follow it up with "well then, that should take care of the conservative eye-for-an-eye thirst for vengeance, right?" He'd let them get puffed up and angry, then deflate them by saying "yes, the Bible does say an eye-for-an-eye. But did it say you had the right to pluck out the eye, or simply trust that God would judge that person's transgressions against you fairly, and deal with that person in a just manner? Or, do you not trust God enough to do as he says he will do, and feel the need to do what God should - but won't - do, and take retribution yourself?" Wowee, the arguments that kid started, but he makes a good point. Forgiveness is something you do for yourself, and I think he's right that God (or your own higher power) meant it that way. Another good friend also taught me later that American Christians seem to have confused the meaning of the word "forgive", and somehow equated it with "reconcile". In the Bible and many other holy texts, we are encouraged to forgive those who harm us. To him (as with my other friend), that means you put dealing with that person's harmful behavior in God's hands. That's different from reconciling. Forgiving is something you do for yourself, so you don't give that other person free rent in your head. But that doesn't mean you have to become best friends, invite them over for dinner, join a bowling league with them, or even smile at them afterwards. But so many people say "I could never forgive that person for doing [I]{...insert favorite harmful behavior here...}[/I]. Why not? Unless you think that forgiving them means more than it does. That was a very liberating epiphany for me, and one I have to continually remind myself of in the ongoing tribulation that is my son, McWeedy. If I've offended anyone here, I apologize in advance. I don't mean to proselytize, but I with all the difficult child's, FEX's, and other difficult people in the lives of our CD board members, I humbly hope that the version of forgiveness I've come to understand can help someone else. Or maybe not, in which case you're welcome to throw rotten tomatoes, cabbage, and other produce at me as you see fit. :soapbox: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: Mikey [/QUOTE]
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