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Argh! Kid is a mess. And very volatile mess for that
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<blockquote data-quote="SuZir" data-source="post: 660234" data-attributes="member: 14557"><p>I think that for punishments to work a kid (or adult) has to consider risks and benefits of their actions beforehand. Consider what they may benefit from planned action, how likely it is they would get caught and what the punishment would be if caught. Ache fails out in the 'planned activity' or at the latest 'consider benefits and risks' part of all that. And what you have told us about your son Lil, I would bet he doesn't really learn well from punishments either. And if a child, or an adult, is a type that does well in considering their actions beforehand and weighing risks and benefits, often the very token punishments are enough. For example for our Joy shaking a finger in front his face and telling that something was not nice tended to be enough. We did ground him at times or cut his allowance for a week or two or when he was younger time outed him or his favourite toy for a moment or denied screen time for a day, but I believe most of that was completely unnecessary. Just clearly expressed parental displeasure would had been enough. In fact they have done some studies with adults and feeling of narrowly escaping a punishment can be the better deterrent than being punished. It may sound odd, but it works for certain everyday crimes we commit. Around here if you are speeding mildly, the police can decide if they give you a speeding ticket or written warning. Studies have shown that people who get off with the warning will be more careful and follow the speed limits better than those who got the ticket. They speculate that people who got the ticket felt they paid the consequences, while those who got the warning feel they got lucky and do not want to push their luck any more.</p><p></p><p>Ache didn't want to cause parental displeasure any more than Joy, but from his point of view things just happened to him, where Joy planned, evaluated and then did things. And then when Ache was in trouble, anxiety kicked in and he got stuck, which we considered stubbornness or provocation. Doesn't make me feel too good to consider that there we were upping and piling punishment over punishment while a kid was so panicked he simply couldn't get his act together and act in the way that we would had considered appropriate or cooperative and which would had made us stop piling those punishments. We did learn what worked with him and what not, but still we at times forgot and went back to things that should work, even though they had never worked before with him. It is often difficult to forget 'the right way' in favour of 'well, it works' especially when everyone around you considers that problems your kid has are because you are not being consistent with 'the right way.' But every time we tried to do things 'the right way', we ended up in absurd situations. For example, if you have a young teen kid and you consistently punish them with grounding and taking away allowance and screen time and if they sneak out during grounding or commit same offence again, you drastically up the punishment. Sounds logical, doesn't it? Now, what do you do, then after the latest offence your kid is supposed to be grounded for few hundred years? Consistency my a**.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SuZir, post: 660234, member: 14557"] I think that for punishments to work a kid (or adult) has to consider risks and benefits of their actions beforehand. Consider what they may benefit from planned action, how likely it is they would get caught and what the punishment would be if caught. Ache fails out in the 'planned activity' or at the latest 'consider benefits and risks' part of all that. And what you have told us about your son Lil, I would bet he doesn't really learn well from punishments either. And if a child, or an adult, is a type that does well in considering their actions beforehand and weighing risks and benefits, often the very token punishments are enough. For example for our Joy shaking a finger in front his face and telling that something was not nice tended to be enough. We did ground him at times or cut his allowance for a week or two or when he was younger time outed him or his favourite toy for a moment or denied screen time for a day, but I believe most of that was completely unnecessary. Just clearly expressed parental displeasure would had been enough. In fact they have done some studies with adults and feeling of narrowly escaping a punishment can be the better deterrent than being punished. It may sound odd, but it works for certain everyday crimes we commit. Around here if you are speeding mildly, the police can decide if they give you a speeding ticket or written warning. Studies have shown that people who get off with the warning will be more careful and follow the speed limits better than those who got the ticket. They speculate that people who got the ticket felt they paid the consequences, while those who got the warning feel they got lucky and do not want to push their luck any more. Ache didn't want to cause parental displeasure any more than Joy, but from his point of view things just happened to him, where Joy planned, evaluated and then did things. And then when Ache was in trouble, anxiety kicked in and he got stuck, which we considered stubbornness or provocation. Doesn't make me feel too good to consider that there we were upping and piling punishment over punishment while a kid was so panicked he simply couldn't get his act together and act in the way that we would had considered appropriate or cooperative and which would had made us stop piling those punishments. We did learn what worked with him and what not, but still we at times forgot and went back to things that should work, even though they had never worked before with him. It is often difficult to forget 'the right way' in favour of 'well, it works' especially when everyone around you considers that problems your kid has are because you are not being consistent with 'the right way.' But every time we tried to do things 'the right way', we ended up in absurd situations. For example, if you have a young teen kid and you consistently punish them with grounding and taking away allowance and screen time and if they sneak out during grounding or commit same offence again, you drastically up the punishment. Sounds logical, doesn't it? Now, what do you do, then after the latest offence your kid is supposed to be grounded for few hundred years? Consistency my a**. [/QUOTE]
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Argh! Kid is a mess. And very volatile mess for that
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