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At the end of my rope - what should I do?
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 29247" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>A few things concern me. You say that the discipline just doesn't seem to be making an impact any more - this should tell you that this discipline method is not working. And if it's not working - then don't do it. </p><p></p><p>With discipline, the main aim is to teach the child the right way to behave. There can be a number of problems here - </p><p></p><p>1) The child may be incapable of behaving or learning right and wrong, in this area. For example, you may be smacking a newborn baby for having a dirty nappy. Will this work? Not for a few years, at least.</p><p></p><p>2) The child may know what is wrong but be unable to stop himself behaving impulsively. In this situation, the discipline can't change the impulsivity, but is it teaching the child what is right and what is wrong. probably. But the child may already know this, and still be unable to comply because on the spur of the moment he can't help himself.</p><p></p><p>3) The child may simply not be getting the message that this behaviour is wrong, and that it is this behaviour that is leading to the punishment. Basically, the punishment and crime are not connecting in the child's mind. An example here from difficult child 3 - his school would put him on detention after two infractions written down in the discipline book, over a 6 month period. At that time he was barely capable of hearing and understanding what was said to him, especially if it was in a noisy, crowded environment. He was also impulsive. The detention was not immediate; it began the next convenient Monday.As a result he may have had a period of good behaviour, but the detention would still take place. In his mind he was being punished simply for who he was, since he could not make any other possible connection.</p><p></p><p>Another problem can be if you are trying to correct too much at once. If your child is totally undisciplined at meal times, runs and jumps on the furniture, eats with his hands and throws food, then the last thing you should chide him for is talking with his mouth full.</p><p>You should prioritise what behaviours are most urgent to deal with, and only deal with those.</p><p></p><p>And a brief word on the subject of medicating ADHD etc - this medication will not necessarily make ODD worse. In fact, if the ODD is linked to the ADHD, medicating the ADHD may improve the ODD problems. It all depends on what works for your child. If you try something and it's a miserable failure, then don't do it again unless you've worked out why it didn't work, and fixed it. Similarly, if you try something and it works in unexpected ways, don't take him off it while you question why, just count your blessings. While it is claimed that ODD can occur with no other co-morbid condition, it is far more often seen hand in hand with other conditions which, when treated, can produce an improvement in the ODD.</p><p></p><p>One thing about ODD that seems to stand out - it seems to be a case where discipline methods which may have worked like a charm on other kids in the family, especially strict discipline, can make these kids' behaviours worse, not better. And if a discipline method isn't working, why persist? You go in search of a better technique that may work, instead of using the one which you know does not.</p><p></p><p>If you haven't already, look up Ross Greene's "The Explosive Child" and read it. If you want a quick idea of what it's like, there is some good discussion on this book in the Early Childhood forum. It's turned our life around, difficult child 3 has gone from undiagnosed but classic ODD to a pleasant, cooperative but still strong-willed young man. We keep having to work at it but he no longer sees us as the enemy to fight against - instead, he now sees us as his helpers. Changing that mind-set of his was the biggest breakthrough and we did it by changing how we dealt with him and not coming down hard on him all the time. It had turned into a tug-of-war, where each opponent tugs in the opposite direction. But when you begin to slack off YOUR pull, so does your opponent, until neither is pulling (or you're now both pulling in the same direction).</p><p>Example - you are shopping with your wilful toddler. Toddler is on a baby harness with leash. baby sees a puppy and wants to look, but you're in a hurry and want to continue to the grocery store. baby is pulling hard towards the puppy and is about to throw a tantrum. You could:</p><p>a) assert your greater mass and parenthood and insist you go to the store - after all, you are the parent and your will must prevail; or</p><p>b) give way for a short while, let the toddler pat the puppy, show the toddler the right way to approach the puppy, take a few minutes, and THEN it's easier to say, "bye-bye, puppy" and take a now cooperative toddler to the store, while you both talk about the puppy on the way.</p><p></p><p>While the second option may make you slightly late for the store, fighting a screaming toddler in the first option won't help your schedule either.</p><p></p><p>I know that is simplistic, but sometimes you need to look at everything with your child's behaviour in just such a simplistic way, one piece of the puzzle at a time.</p><p></p><p>There is no medication for ODD. There are medications for some possible underlying disorders. There IS behavioural modification options for ODD, as well as other disorders. These techniques also work well on 'normal' kids, so you don't have to have different rules for different members of the family.</p><p></p><p>Good luck!</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 29247, member: 1991"] A few things concern me. You say that the discipline just doesn't seem to be making an impact any more - this should tell you that this discipline method is not working. And if it's not working - then don't do it. With discipline, the main aim is to teach the child the right way to behave. There can be a number of problems here - 1) The child may be incapable of behaving or learning right and wrong, in this area. For example, you may be smacking a newborn baby for having a dirty nappy. Will this work? Not for a few years, at least. 2) The child may know what is wrong but be unable to stop himself behaving impulsively. In this situation, the discipline can't change the impulsivity, but is it teaching the child what is right and what is wrong. probably. But the child may already know this, and still be unable to comply because on the spur of the moment he can't help himself. 3) The child may simply not be getting the message that this behaviour is wrong, and that it is this behaviour that is leading to the punishment. Basically, the punishment and crime are not connecting in the child's mind. An example here from difficult child 3 - his school would put him on detention after two infractions written down in the discipline book, over a 6 month period. At that time he was barely capable of hearing and understanding what was said to him, especially if it was in a noisy, crowded environment. He was also impulsive. The detention was not immediate; it began the next convenient Monday.As a result he may have had a period of good behaviour, but the detention would still take place. In his mind he was being punished simply for who he was, since he could not make any other possible connection. Another problem can be if you are trying to correct too much at once. If your child is totally undisciplined at meal times, runs and jumps on the furniture, eats with his hands and throws food, then the last thing you should chide him for is talking with his mouth full. You should prioritise what behaviours are most urgent to deal with, and only deal with those. And a brief word on the subject of medicating ADHD etc - this medication will not necessarily make ODD worse. In fact, if the ODD is linked to the ADHD, medicating the ADHD may improve the ODD problems. It all depends on what works for your child. If you try something and it's a miserable failure, then don't do it again unless you've worked out why it didn't work, and fixed it. Similarly, if you try something and it works in unexpected ways, don't take him off it while you question why, just count your blessings. While it is claimed that ODD can occur with no other co-morbid condition, it is far more often seen hand in hand with other conditions which, when treated, can produce an improvement in the ODD. One thing about ODD that seems to stand out - it seems to be a case where discipline methods which may have worked like a charm on other kids in the family, especially strict discipline, can make these kids' behaviours worse, not better. And if a discipline method isn't working, why persist? You go in search of a better technique that may work, instead of using the one which you know does not. If you haven't already, look up Ross Greene's "The Explosive Child" and read it. If you want a quick idea of what it's like, there is some good discussion on this book in the Early Childhood forum. It's turned our life around, difficult child 3 has gone from undiagnosed but classic ODD to a pleasant, cooperative but still strong-willed young man. We keep having to work at it but he no longer sees us as the enemy to fight against - instead, he now sees us as his helpers. Changing that mind-set of his was the biggest breakthrough and we did it by changing how we dealt with him and not coming down hard on him all the time. It had turned into a tug-of-war, where each opponent tugs in the opposite direction. But when you begin to slack off YOUR pull, so does your opponent, until neither is pulling (or you're now both pulling in the same direction). Example - you are shopping with your wilful toddler. Toddler is on a baby harness with leash. baby sees a puppy and wants to look, but you're in a hurry and want to continue to the grocery store. baby is pulling hard towards the puppy and is about to throw a tantrum. You could: a) assert your greater mass and parenthood and insist you go to the store - after all, you are the parent and your will must prevail; or b) give way for a short while, let the toddler pat the puppy, show the toddler the right way to approach the puppy, take a few minutes, and THEN it's easier to say, "bye-bye, puppy" and take a now cooperative toddler to the store, while you both talk about the puppy on the way. While the second option may make you slightly late for the store, fighting a screaming toddler in the first option won't help your schedule either. I know that is simplistic, but sometimes you need to look at everything with your child's behaviour in just such a simplistic way, one piece of the puzzle at a time. There is no medication for ODD. There are medications for some possible underlying disorders. There IS behavioural modification options for ODD, as well as other disorders. These techniques also work well on 'normal' kids, so you don't have to have different rules for different members of the family. Good luck! Marg [/QUOTE]
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